| Author | Message | ||
     Rocket_in_uk |
Nope, no one from Russian government is saying the West shot down a passenger plane. They have however asked that no one use this tragic event for whatever beneficial purpose, which is what Russia has 'implied' is happening. They aren't wrong. The U.S. were, and the UK, France and Holland are still openly berating Russia, claiming it was involved somehow. The Crimea annexation is not the power grab the West is telling of. Russia was never going to allow a Western sympathetic Ukraine take control of land geopolitical significant to Russia's nautical access to the rest of the world. And certainly not with it being home to Russia's Black Sea fleet. And the majority of the Crimean people being Russian - and voting 89% to remain Russian when coming under threat of non sympathetic to Russia rule and control. So skipping plane downings and Crimea, where is this proof you say is out there? Just provide this topic with some factual links which prove some, any, all, or just even one or two facts which show and prove Russia and Putin to be the aggressors in this struggle to dominate Ukraine. I'm saying you can't, and until you can I shall remain totally open minded as to Russia and Putin in this. Rocket in England | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Your right. There is no proof. Those photos, video and audio of phone calls implicate the seperatists are ALL fake!!! But that means those of Nuland's and others you posted claiming proof of USA being the puppet master of Ukraine Government are fake as well. FAKE and meaningless. Especially because the New Ukraine Government will soon be in control of Ukraine. Other countries have done similar things to protect their interests, (sending in so-called "consultants") Why doesn't Moscow man up and just admit what they are doing??Why the cover up?? OH..he probably...eventually was going to... but now this: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28520813 Meanwhile... at the crash site:  | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Since most of world see Putin and Russia involved helping the separatists in Ukraine, he should be showing the proof that he is NOT involved. But he can not,.. because he/they/Russia is involved. So... if more Ukrainian planes are downed,.. and more Ukrainian troops are killed in the next weeks... you believe this is from just ak rifles and leftover equipment taken from sad Ukrainian troops?? The reason Putin needs to show his and Russia innocence... is... the World thinks he is lying. Why would he be ignoring that fact?? (Because he IS lying) | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
There is no proof. Those photos, video and audio of phone calls implicate the seperatists are ALL fake!!! But that means those of Nuland's and others you posted claiming proof of USA being the puppet master of Ukraine Government are fake as well. Are you serious? There is no doubt about the Nuland / Pyatt phone call. Here's Nuland discussing the phone call. Or rather her trying not to when she says she is not going to "comment on private diplomatic conversations". She then adds, "other than to say it was pretty impressive trade craft. The audio was extremely clear". Have a listen yourself  http://www.theguardian.com/world/video/2014/feb/07 /eu-us-diplomat-victoria-nuland-phonecall-leaked-v ideo There is no doubt. Given the events in Ukraine after the phone call and the veracity of the conversations contents, one would imagine the phone call between Igor Bezler and Vasili Geranin would have been subject to massive scrutiny and proven by now to be authentic, or more importantly, the conversational significance as recorded put in place to prove EXACTLY who shot MH17 down, and if it were accidental or otherwise. So let's assume the recordings are authentic. Well for starters there's several calls on the recording, so we know the recording is put together, or edited, so let's assume also the contents are factual. The separatists speak of it being an AN-26 transport plane, going on to say it must have had spies onboard, it carrying women and children, and flying over a war zone. It does not look like the separatists shot down MH17 purposely if the recordings are confirmation enough they shot it down. But no one (yet) is making a big deal out of the recording several weeks on. Perhaps because it might prove it was an unintentional shooting down of a passenger plane, and this doesn't suit the current agenda of those wanting to milk the event for their own means or gain. Why doesn't Moscow man up and just admit what they are doing??Why the cover up?? OH..he probably...eventually was going to... but now this: http://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-28520813 I think you'll find, if you care to read your link again, it's the Ukrainian military who are NOT adhering to their agreement NOT to engage in military activities within a 40k radius of the crash site, yet from day one they've not stopped shelling the towns and cities close by (the places mentioned in your link where many civilians have been killed by random shelling). This link is not the BBC reporting on separatists being responsible for the inability of investigators to access the crash area, but the responsibility of the Ukrainian military preventing them from doing so. Read it again. Since most of world see Putin and Russia involved helping the separatists in Ukraine, Does most of the world? Surely you mean mainly the Western world and in part many corrupted by the Wests propaganda.... he should be showing the proof that he is NOT involved. But he can not,.. because he/they/Russia is involved. To the extent you mean, how does one show proof of something they're not involved in? So... if more Ukrainian planes are downed,.. and more Ukrainian troops are killed in the next weeks... you believe this is from just ak rifles and leftover equipment taken from sad Ukrainian troops?? Possibly so, but so what if Russia or Russian people are supplying separatists with weapons of any sort? If they believe themselves to be the ones suffering aggression from opposing forces, I should imagine they believe they have a right to defend themselves and even fight back if they're being slaughtered by the very people who should be protecting their interests and considerations. That would be the Ukrainian government, who are not doing any such thing. The reason Putin needs to show his and Russia innocence... is... the World thinks he is lying. Why would he be ignoring that fact?? (Because he IS lying) Russia seems to be constantly providing such information, but the West (as reported by some media outlets) is ignoring it, and it's likely not getting reported in the U.S. which is why sometimes it pays to watch RT News International where you might get a look in As for 'ignoring it'. It strikes me that Russia is far from ignoring anything, and their approach, or at least their visible to media face approach, appears to be one of diplomacy. And one expressed with articulate speech and explanation, which of course could be a smoke screen. But you have not for example heard Russian diplomats or representatives say "those Americans are lying bastard and we'll bomb the shit out of them", or something similar. This despite the intense barrage of accusations openly pointed out for all to see at Russia and Putin since day one. Get a clue I'd say. Rocket in England | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
oi, ken, you missed this or just failed to answer it because you had no real answer to it "and how does a person who grows up without a father differ?" So lets hear it, lets hear how men without a father are inferior to others raised by their father. (hmmm I wonder how many of our troops were raised without their father - are you anti-American soldier? what are you, one of the Putin commies?) | ||
| Xdigitalx |
That Nuland phone call means nothing, neither do any of those pictures you posted of McCain. "it was an unintentional shooting down of a passenger plane" I never thought otherwise. I heard many reports saying the same thing. I think most agree too. (even though it wasn't actually said in the reports... just reporting on the tragedy and the ones who most likely caused it) "it's the Ukrainian military who are NOT adhering to their agreement NOT to engage in military activities within a 40k radius of the crash site" 1st, separatists shoot down the plane, then they screw up the crash site, then they disrespect the dead... and then disrupt, and prevent inspectors from accessing the site.... I think the Ukraine Military is justified here. Separatists need to give up so more people don't die. They are loosing and do not stand a chance to succeed. Unless they get more/better weapons and supplies and personnel from.... (I wonder where??) it might be prolonged futher. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
what are they loosing? who or what are they setting free? | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
That Nuland phone call means nothing, neither do any of those pictures you posted of McCain. Please explain why they don't in your opinion. Or feel free to defend on behalf of the U.S. administration the Nuland / Pyatt phone call, and the pictures of McCain cozying up to known Nazi's - seeing as the admin's reluctant to explain either. I'm dying to hear what fantastically reasonable explanation you'll come up with. I never thought otherwise. I heard many reports saying the same thing. I think most agree too. (even though it wasn't actually said in the reports... just reporting on the tragedy and the ones who most likely caused it) Hold on there just a mo. It's only after much protestation from Russia and the realisation Russia had no hand in a premeditated attack on MH17 that the U.S. administration issued a tentative 'Russia were not directly involved' comment. Until that moment the leading proponents in this mess from the West had their fingers well and truly pointed at Russia. The Western press went as far as to blame Putin himself, with his face all over the front of several 'red top' gutter press publications. 1st, separatists shoot down the plane, then they screw up the crash site, then they disrespect the dead... and then disrupt, and prevent inspectors from accessing the site Clearly you are not keeping up at the back, nor reading my previous posts and links to these accusations. The separatist continually invited investigators to the site, to which they wouldn't come. This after they helped collect a couple of hundred bodies. Collect the flight data recorders - they later handed over to British authorities. Far from disrespecting the dead. Did you see this footage in America? http://rt.com/news/174332-ukraine-plane-photo-perv erted/ I think the Ukraine Military is justified here. Separatists need to give up so more people don't die. Unfortunately though, nothing would convince you otherwise. Sadly you're not on your own in your misinformed bias thoughts. Rocket in England | ||
| Xdigitalx |
The guy with the Teddy Bear...was he the one who pressed the button? Those separatists will never win,.. they are doomed to fail. They really do need to disarm. They majority of Ukrainians and the world watching want them to. I am sure they can work out a deal (Ukraine/Russia) that will last a decade or so. "Unfortunately though, nothing would convince you otherwise. Sadly you're not on your own in your misinformed bias thoughts". that's funny,..these are my exact thoughts when I read your posts. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Funny coz my thoughts when I read your posts are you're incapable of answering any direct question in relation to events concerning Ukraine. Please for the second time of asking explain why the Nuland phone call doesn't mean anything? You've also made several statements this past few days, which I've asked you show proof of. Where is this proof? People like you who think they know what they're talking about but actually don't just make the problem worse. America isn't solving the problem - it's part of it - a big part of it! Rocket in England (Message edited by rocket_in_uk on August 01, 2014) | ||
| Xdigitalx |
I hope you know, my opinion means about as much as some farmer in Kyrgyzstan... or yours. If Putin really cared about those "Russians" in Ukraine... he would do something about it. He isn't. (*actually making it worse by helping the separatists with arms and supplies) Maybe he is the Nazi you speak of? It has been reported that the owner of the truck in that video that transported the BUK system back to Russia... stated his truck was taken by Russian separatists prior to the downing of flight MH17. I have no video/pictures except the one's that been shown all over the news of the truck carrying the Buk system with the 2 missing missiles being transported back to Russia. Russia did it. Putin could have stopped it but he won't. Putin doesn't care about the Russians in Ukraine, he is using them to start war. He is a war monger. Majority of Ukraine want west influence. PERIOD. (Message edited by xdigitalx on August 01, 2014) | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Dude, I've not seen THAT report which tells of a truck driver having his low loader confiscated to transport a missile system. Quick Google search reveals NOTHING. Let's look at your comment, "stated his truck was taken by Russian separatists prior to the downing of flight MH17". The low loader seen with the missile launcher on its back is said by Ukraine officials to be used to move the launcher faster than it could moved itself. Would make sense if that was the launcher and whoever is using / moving it brought down MH17 with it by accident. Now they want to cover their tracks. To hijack a low loader before MH17 was downed means the attack was intentional if that is the launcher used. I have no video/pictures except the one's that been shown all over the news of the truck carrying the Buk system with the 2 missing missiles being transported back to Russia. How do you know it went to Russia? No one else does. Not even the best spies in the world know. That's your own government. If they did we'd have had it rammed down our TV's and stomped all over the front pages. What is funny is how it seems to have vanished off the face of Ukraine under the watchful eye of all those satellites in the sky and spies on the ground. It's an amazing story, but one lacking in fact when adding Russia and Putin into the mix. Majority of Ukraine want west influence. PERIOD. PERIOD? I'd like to see you back that up with real numbers. Man you're getting good at making stuff up as you go along. I'm still waiting to hear why you think the Nuland phone call is meaningless. Do you actually know anything or are you just here for a bit of keyboard bravado and a wind-up? Rocket in England | ||
| Xdigitalx |
"To hijack a low loader before MH17 was downed means the attack was intentional if that is the launcher used". .That's a good one!! How do you come up with that? Just proves the separatists knew they had to move the equipment around faster if they wanted to keep it... (to protect it from Ukraine airstrike) after the fact but ended up in Russia as the videos show. "I'm still waiting..." Cool.. keep waiting. I posted links before, you just don't want to believe them. That's on you dude. Fact is, whatever happens will be up to the separatists/Ukrainians or Moscow/EU. But for now, they will continue to be punished for helping the seperatists ... until such a time as the EU/Nato... see fit. Wonder what will happen next... what will separatists say (and Moscow) when they really are cornered into one city?? We will probably find out soon. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
That's a good one!! How do you come up with that? By looking at the intel posted online of course. Just proves the separatists knew they had to move the equipment around faster if they wanted to keep it... (to protect it from Ukraine airstrike) after the fact Clearly you've not followed the information available. The intel available which claims to show the launcher before MH17 was downed shows it in a couple of locations on its own tracks. Some intel alleging it to be about 10k from the crash site. It is only after MH17 was downed that the intel available is claiming the same launcher was seen heading in a southerly direction, towards Russia, on the back of a low loader. This because it couldn't be moved (hidden away) fast enough under its own steam. Allegedly of course So no it's not a 'good one'. Nor have I 'come up' with anything. I observed the information available is all. More thorough than you it appears, which would explain why you come up with some contrived story of how the launcher was being transported around on a low loader so it would be more difficult to attack. Unbelievable! Cool.. keep waiting. I posted links before, you just don't want to believe them. That's on you dude. Whoa! Hold on there cowboy. You've never posted any links as to why the Nuland phone call is of no importance. Further, no one I recall has said it isn't apart from you - which is why I asked you to give your reason and no one else's. You haven't and you can't because you haven't got a clue what you're saying. There's nothing 'on me' to go find what you've posted previously on this specific matter, as you haven't posted anything  Rocket in England | ||
| Xdigitalx |
"You've never posted any links as to why the Nuland phone call is of no importance" Why do I need to post a link? I am telling you this now. It shows how some countries broker deals. (Russia is trying too and they also seem to have good communication hackers but no good officers to properly train personnel how to use missile systems. Does this phone call mean anything to you? http://youtu.be/o-URqyieD_4 Is it fake? | ||
| Reindog |
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| Kenm123t |
Hybrid I have worked with many kids that are fatherless due to the Baby daddy never being around or In the case of my step son telling him f off and never come to see him! He has many self confidence issues based on trust and on wondering whats wrong with me. Mothers tend to over compensate and its a different relationship than that of father and son. My great niece just had her dad who ran off with another woman tell her he was too tired to talk to her. He also told her not to call after 9 pm. She was in the hospital under going Chemo therapy she is 9! She is coming home from the hospital today she has been sick for 2 years and it looks like she will need a lung transplant. Girls have different and sometimes worse problems with missing or abandonment. Its the source of the Explosion of single mothers and peter pan boy men. Its a vicious circle of weak men and unloved women Every one has issues and In day to day life they are none any one else's business. But when those issues can interfere with the running of the country and if Obama fails at his role of leadership. War on a global scale will be the result so you better believe Every government on the planet has their behavior specialists working on predictions of what Obama is thinking and how to deal with him | ||
| Kenm123t |
Hybrid I forgot to tell you I m not an Nazi. Just mostly native American and Scandinavian Patriot.  So have a herring! | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Why do I need to post a link? I am telling you this now. You said you'd posted 'these' links previously as to why the Nuland phone call is meaningless. I've asked you several times, having never seen these previous links, to back up your claim seeing as you said I didn't want to believe them. "Cool.. keep waiting. I posted links before, you just don't want to believe them. That's on you dude." Recently you said "It has been reported that the owner of the truck in that video that transported the BUK system back to Russia... stated his truck was taken by Russian separatists prior to the downing of flight MH17 yet I can find no such report or claim. I simply ask, you support your comments with facts rather than divert the conversation away from such when challenged. Surely it can't be that difficult to provide links to this damning evidence can it? Rocket in England (Message edited by rocket_in_uk on August 04, 2014) | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Ukraine will be no different in this respect. http://www.theguardian.com/media/2004/jun/20/israe l.broadcasting Rocket in England | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Sorry, misinterpretation of text. My bad: Nuland thing: Cool.. keep waiting. (end/pause) Good Luck with that. "I posted links before, you just don't want to believe them..., that's on you dude." (end) That part was only concerning New Ukraine Government/Military and separatists. I posted a few..., whatever... u disregard them anyways. Volvo truck: If I can find it on the internet anybody can. Why would I lie??? But it could be a lie I was reading... can't be proven either way really. But it is out there. (Insert Hillary quote here) | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Sounds to me like you're shuffling  Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
http://pjmedia.com/tatler/2014/08/01/hamas-violate s-72-hour-ceasefire-after-just-90-minutes/ Rocket, It seems, on the surface, that you are willing to believe anything a corrupt, murderous, regime has to say, no matter that they have a reputation for over a century of lying to gain an advantage, and a base philosophy that not only condones, but codifies lies as a means to an end. Your apparent willingness to believe the propaganda of such charming folk as Hamas, who use children as human shields, attack civilian targets by preference, and mask a culture of unrelenting hate with "humanitarian" concern does not speak well for your judgment. I note with zero irony the actions of the PLA who stole billions of dollars of aid ( MOST of it given freely by kind hearted people in the UK and US ) to enrich themselves, at the expense of "their people", to such an extent that Arafat was kept on a much needed life support machine for nearly a week after his death while the leaders of the PLA argued over his corpse how to get the money in their own pockets, and not get condemned by Arafat's widow. The French doctor who objected was hushed up and threatened, and Mrs. Arafat is still AFAIK living in Paris in luxury once reserved for Monarchs. I understand your distrust for the evil minions and bureaucrats in the EU. I understand and agree the current regime in the US is corrupt, tyrannical, and untrustworthy. I am not happy with you and others confusing the actions of the Obama Regime with the intentions, desires, and attitude of the American People. Yes, Obama was elected on a campaign of lies, concealed his past, and won his election with the full enthusiasm of the Establishment leftist media, and yes, he fooled enough of the people to get elected. I'm not at all happy that a supposed majority of the voters bought his BS. A minority still do, as do the millions who ride the coat tails of the regime for wealth and power, including some of the richest men in the world, Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, and Jeffrey Immelt ( GE ). I assure you that the majority of people in this country are not happy with the actions of this regime in foreign policy, including the Ukraine, Egypt, Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, and South & Central America. We are trying very hard to maintain a multi century long tradition ( broken with the US Civil War ) of peaceful governance, and avoid the mass murders perpetrated by the leaders of nations like France ( after the Revolution ) Germany, ( WW2 ) Russia, ( this last century ) China, ( since WW2 ) Vietnam/Cambodia/Burma ( again, since WW2 ) and Japan. ( WW2 ) I realize you may think this ancient history, but it's not. Far too many nations still murder their own citizens so the aristocracy can stay in power than you seem to realize. It can even happen here, as the "Fast & Furious" operation to suppress civil rights by giving weapons to murderous drug gangs shows. http://pjmedia.com/richardfernandez/2014/07/31/the -dambusters/ May I assume you also support ISIS and their ongoing campaign to restore the Caliphate under their rule? Perhaps a fan of Pol Pot? | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
You know what Patrick, those Jewish murdering bastards want kicking out of Palestine once and for all. And whilst you might not like what you assume is my opinion on such matters (as I've said very very little on the subject) it is an opinion shared by f**king millions. Read your foreign press if you can get past your obvious bigotry. And leave me out of it. This is the Ukraine topic, where today central Kiev is on fire as police and military attack Maidan protest camps....... https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=maidan+protest+c amps&oq=maidan+protest+camps&aqs=chrome..69i57.684 0j0j8&sourceid=chrome&es_sm=122&ie=UTF-8 Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
It seems, on the surface, that you are willing to believe anything a corrupt, murderous, regime has to say, no matter that they have a reputation for over a century of lying to gain an advantage, and a base philosophy that not only condones, but codifies lies as a means to an end. Sorry, are you speaking of America or Russia? Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Your apparent willingness to believe the propaganda of such charming folk as Hamas, who use children as human shields, attack civilian targets by preference, and mask a culture of unrelenting hate with "humanitarian" concern does not speak well for your judgment. Me and millions of others then! Rocket in England | ||
| Hootowl |
Yes. Millions of "useful idiots". The Soviets haven't forgotten that game. http://www.bbc.co.uk/worldservice/documentaries/20 10/07/100624_doc_useful_idiots_lenin.shtml Don't be an idiot. | ||
| Sifo |
I wouldn't be surprise to find out that Rocket has a "coexist" sticker on his car. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Don't be an idiot. What kind of idiot are you? My comment was in reply to an accusation of me having poor judgement, it being said I believe in Hamas propaganda. Again for your benefit, millions around the world condemn Israel's murder of innocent people, including hundreds of children. Absolutely nothing to do with "useful idiots" as described in your link then. But please continue to try paint me into a corner. It's entertaining pointing out such stupidity when the topic deserves a wider truth outside of the great American swindle the world is being fed. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I wouldn't be surprise to find out that Rocket has a "coexist" sticker on his car. No I haven't. In fact, I'd not seen or heard of them until now, so I must thank you Sif They're brilliant. Could you send me at least a couple of these please. http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/COEXIST-VINYL-WINDOW-AUT O-CAR-STICKER-DECAL-BUMPER-HIGH-QUALITY-DIE-CUT-/2 71553599077?pt=Decals_Stickers_Vinyl_Art&var=&hash =item3f39db1665 Rocket in England |
