| Author | Message | ||
     Fltwistygirl |
We are settling back into Colorado living after our whirlwind trip to the land of 10,000 lakes. One recurring topic has been on my mind this summer because it seems to be directly affecting more people in my life, both in my classes and personally. The topic is what works best if you cannot avoid hitting a critter. The new MSF BRC book has a short section about dogs where they advise to slow, downshift then accelerate past the dog. And don't kick the dog! For larger animals like elk, if it is on the highway stop before reaching it, and wait til it leaves. And be on the lookout for its friends. On a break during one of my three wheeled classes, a couple of can am spyder pilots were wondering how their rigs would fare against a deer. I'm guessing better than two wheels because of the added stability, but who knows? This summer, both my brother and Mr. twisty had untimely encounters with critters: My brother hit a rabbit, and Mr. twisty nearly hit a mole while canyon carving out here. My brother managed to stay upright despite a direct impact but possibly could have avoided it altogether by swerving. Mr. twisty lucked out because the mole ran out of the way. This was good because he was leading a spirited ride and was leaned over in a corner when the mole appeared on the road in front of him. We've seen all kinds of animals on the roads out here, including a herd of elk prancing next to the canyon road just a few miles from the house. Mr. twisty got nailed in the leg by a substantially sized bird last summer near red feather lakes. His armoured riding pants spared his shin from exiting that encounter with more than a bruise. So, if you have had experiences with hitting critters, please post up what worked for you and what you may do differently in the future. Safe rides, B. | ||
| Jaimec |
Generally, NOT hitting critters is a good way of keeping the shiny side up... My rule of thumb: If you can eat it in a single sitting, go ahead and hit it. If it would provide multiple meals, then avoid it at all costs. YMMV. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
I was riding in a semi-wooded area down a 2 lane road (with shoulders on both sides) and was approaching an overpass, with just guardrails, I could not see over the hill,... as I get closer I see an animal crossing the road... then just as it crossed my line of travel at only 10 or so ft in front of me (at 40-50mph?),...it stopped, it's head turned and looked at me... 2 shiny eyes ... and it froze there... I had no time what so ever to react... I thought for sure I would hit it, but its' head passed just under my right footpeg. All happened so fast...no time to react at all..., yet., it was like it happened in slow motion. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
oh... forgot.. it was un freakin ugly possum.  | ||
| Court |
After years of riding all over the country . . . . I've come to 2 conclusions THAT WORK FOR ME. THOUGHT #1) There are few, if any "maneuvers" that are of use. When folks tell me . . . "the minute you see it, execute the swerve maneuver you learned". At that point, I start one of the thousands of "deer vs. bike" webcam YouTube videos and instruct them as follows . . . "I'm telling you now that during this video a deer will jump out . . I'll even let you know it is coming from the right hand side of the road. Now, armed with that, put your finger on the mouse button and, just as I would have to do with the brakes, simply pause the video at the instant you see the deer". Result highlight the fact that "stopping before you hit it" is not always a solution. THOUGHT #2: When boiled down to it's essence . . . it's simple physics . . . F=MV2. You have zero control over the Mass of you, the motorcycle or the critter . . . therefore it becomes a constant. You have ALL the control over velocity (V) which becomes your enemy at a squared function . . . ergo, double your speed and you have 4 times the impact force. TAKE AWAY: When riding in known infested areas . . . I greatly reduce speed. As tempting, while ferry test bikes from coast to coast, as it was to "make up time" on Highway 50 (America's Loneliest Road) at 3am . . . the risk v. rewards don't work. There are segments I rode at 20MPH, thus inducing fatigue. THOUGHT #3: I suppose it comes from USMC training and having been shot a couple times . . . but "dress for the worst". I flew into a city to test ride a Sportster for HD once in 1998. It was about 100oF as the dealer watched me don my gear. He commented .. "you look like your dressing for winter" . . . to which I responded . . "I always dress for fall". (Particularly when riding a strange bike with a reported suspension problem that has tossed a small airline stewardess 3 times in a single month). TAKE AWAY: There are really only TWO effective countermeasures to employ . .to wit: 1) REDUCE SPEED 2) WEAR PROPER GEAR This doesn't mean I forego heightened vigilance . . . . the other night I got one of the wild hairs, after an afternoon of working on one of the Buells, and left NYC at 3pm . . . . only meant to go around the block but ended up visiting 4 states and getting home at 3am. On one of the final legs, from Frenchtown, NJ up to I-78E, I ended up on CR-513 and my alarm went off. I passed 10, precisely 10, deer standing adjacent to the road. I'm heading out, again, in about an hour to check out a covered bridge in Vermont and expect I'll be doing the same thing in the wee hours of Wednesday. Ride carefully . . . .ride professionally . . . ride defensively. Motorcycling is like some casino games . . it's a bet pretty well stacked against you and. to that end, you have a personal obligation to do everything you can to tip the odds in your favor. Court | ||
| Court |
By the way . . . . forget deer whistles. I put some on my FLHTC and installed them backwards . . . . I got home and there were 4 deer following me. | ||
| Jaimec |
The only benefit of deer whistles is to the person who SELLS them. They don't do a damned thing. Biologists have determined: if WE don't hear it, the deer don't either. They're DEER, not DOGS. And Court brings up a valid point... the best thing you can control is your SPEED. Human reaction time is roughly 1.8 - 1.9 seconds from the instant a person detects a hazard, recognizes it as a hazard, and then STARTS to do something about it. Let's round that up to "2 seconds" to make the math easier. 60 mph is 88 feet per second. You can either trust me on that, or I'll wait till you do the calculations yourself. Back? Okay... let's round that up to 90 feet to make the math easier. At 60 miles an hour, you will travel 180 feet between the time you spot a deer on the side of the road and START to reach for your brakes. That is more than half the length of a regulation NFL football field. A "rough calculation" of mph to fps is to add half of the mph figure back. 60 (mph) + 30 (half of 60) = 90 feet per second. 100 mph is roughly 150 feet per second. You will travel the length of a football field from the time you spot a hazard till you START to apply the brakes. Something to keep in mind the next time you spot a "Deer Crossing" sign. | ||
| Hootowl |
Mike, if you were in the States, it was more than likely an opossum. Possum, wild ones anyway, are only found in Australia. Also.. Opossums are not ugly!  | ||
| Aesquire |
  A bud lives at the edge of a park, Deer nest in my yard, and I average 35 mph on the trip between. I've had to stop and yell at deer herds to get out of the way as they stood in the road enjoying my Halogen headlight...... I've had a buddy cut deer in half, and live because he landed in mud. Twice. The only technique I can suggest mirrors Court's. Speed, Gear, attention... The physics is too variable for other than generalities, speed mass and angle. Bigger critters, do what you can, ride it out, keep flying until you land safely. Smaller critters, Rabbits, Possums, Dogs,..... if you don't get vectored completely off the road, being relaxed and practiced at bumps helps. Technique and luck, there. DON"T DIE avoiding a critter. Swerving to avoid a mouse or a Moose and ending up in the trees counts as a fail. I've been passenger in a car the driver put in the ditch to avoid a dog. I Was glad we didn't hit the dog, and no one was hurt, but it took a bulldozer to recover the wreck. Of course, some of the best stories come from not getting killed....... http://lifeisaroad.com/stories/2004/10/29/neighbor hoodHazardorWhyTheCopsWontPatrolBriceStreet.html | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Thanks for your posts, all. "Generally, NOT hitting critters is a good way of keeping the shiny side up... My rule of thumb: If you can eat it in a single sitting, go ahead and hit it. If it would provide multiple meals, then avoid it at all costs." Agreed. And that is why we teach evasive maneuvers and encourage students to practice. But it is one thing to swerve to avoid a road gator (tire retread) that is not moving versus a squirrel or rabbit or mole which is more likely to change direction and possibly get under your front tire, which, as you know, if it is leaned over as in a swerve, could have an unfortunate ending. If at highway speeds, and a quick stop is not the best option because I have a logging truck on my tail, I'm thinking my odds are better keeping the shiny side up by running said small critters right over and bracing for the bump. "1) REDUCE SPEED 2) WEAR PROPER GEAR" +1. I like the philosophy "if it makes you frown, slow it down. At night, better lights on your bike and slower speeds may help you detect those critters sooner. Although I have done it, and could appreciate the cooler temps at night in Florida, I generally am not a big fan of riding at night. I white knuckeled it on my deer infested drive back to the lake after my night classroom in N. MN. And that was in the truck. I do ride with a heightened sense of critter vigilance at dawn and dusk however. "I've had a buddy cut deer in half, and live because he landed in mud. Twice." That is some amazing and terrifying stuff. Two coaches I work with up north have three or maybe four deer strikes between them. Their advice....and maybe this is taking a play out of the training received as policemen..."aim for the soft spots...aim for the butt not the antlers if you have any control over where you hit". I have had police people in my classes over the years that have said they are trained to crash into the softest spot....bushes instead of building for instance. Thanks for posting the squirrel story. That guy may have benefited from wearing better gear but funny story nonetheless. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Almost every time I blitz Istachatta, the kamakazi squirrels come out. They stink when they get on the exhaust. A friend hit a pig that darted out of a hedge row, maybe 90 pounds, destroyed his Josh Hayes autographed R1, and earned him a helicopter ride complete with broken hips. I have had armadillos take me out when I was a teen on my Honda 90. Not as many around any more. Hit a good size opossum that darted across the road once on my DRZ-400 while going in a straight line. It went "bump". Another friend hit an alligator, maybe 6 feet long, ran right across it's back. Launched his ZX-10 a foot in the air, but he didn't crash. Only in Flaw'da. | ||
| Etennuly |
Be prepared, be cautious, be observant, plan escape routes, and don't forget to be lucky! I have been lucky many many several times, and will play that card(even though it is not in my control) every time that I can! I wonder if any of us know how often we are lucky. The times the deer turned the other way and we never knew it was there, or the squirrel that ran out into a nice banked corner as we approached under speed, only to see it dart back from where it came. The old adage "I'd rather be lucky than good" carries a lot of weight. I, however like to play them in concert and recognize that luck is there even if I didn't know it, but attention and preparedness are the only ways we can enhance luck. | ||
| Strokizator |
Kind of a timely topic. I was in Yellowstone this past weekend without campground reservations so had to ride all the way to Pinedale, WY to find a room ( it was past 10 pm by then). As a rule I don't ride at night so I stayed well under the speed limit. As we approached the city limits we saw the lights from several patrol cars, a fire truck and an ambulance. The nose of an F-350 was seriously smashed in. A moose lay dead in the road and at least one horse in the stock trailer was also dead. Very sobering and reminded me of why I don't ride at night. One thing that I noticed in western Canada is that the forest is cut back at least 50 yards on each side of the road, allowing you a good view of potential hazards. | ||
| Aesquire |
My deer dividing buddy was on a Yamaha RD400 the first time, broad daylight, and "woke up in the ditch". Bike totaled. Just Bruises on him.. ( and probably a concussion, but it's hard to tell with him ) The second time he was on a 750 Sabre, in the rain, at night, said the deer was tiny, didn't lose consciousness, and landed in a muddy cornfield. He thought he was dead, because it was pitch black and he couldn't breathe. He had crammed the helmet full of mud. Once he'd cleared his eyes and mouth the bike was 20 feet away, still running, and the headlight aimed straight up. Not the forks, they went 2 other different directions. If he'd been knocked out I doubt he'd have survived. When he got it back from the Honda dealer, dropped off at his house, he fired it up....and an awful stench began. The radiator was still crammed with deer & deer byproducts.... It took a while at the local coin/wand car wash to get it clean enough to take home... and he took it back the next day for more washing. We were NOT popular at the car wash. I've hit deer with Vans, cars, usually at dusk when they are most active and moving from sleep safe places to food, but I see them all the time. Nailed one with my VW this Christmas eve. Even bounced off one on my mountain bike on the NY Barge Canal Path in urban/suburban Rochester NY. I'm not sure who was more surprised. Both of us walked/rode away. I don't think I'm that bad a driver, I've swerved to miss them more often than I've hit, but as said by Fltwistygirl, leaned over and pulling g's means you probably won't stay on the road if you do hit, and might run off the road even if you miss. | ||
| Ratbuell |
If it is dog-or-smaller...DO NOT SWERVE. Physics. You have one square inch of contact patch on a motorcycle. Don't make it try to do too many things at once. Slimy critter-guts are bad enough. Do NOT throw side-loads (turning) or braking loads at it, at the same time. Think "riding in rain or snow" - nothing all of a sudden, use gradual inputs, don't try to change directions or velocity in a rush because it will end poorly. And small critters rarely freeze. Chances are they'll scoot...and Murphy's Law says if you swerve...they'll go the same way and you'll hit them anyway. Go straight, they move, no contact. If it's bigger-than-a-dog...that's where the "slow down" theory comes into play. I live in deer country, and always slow it down anytime after an hour prior to sunset when the deer start running. Turns that I'll take full-tilt-boogie during daytime? 35mph or slower, with a head on a pivot like I'm watching a tennis match from center court. And when the deer are REALLY running? I text a friend before I leave. "headed home, if you don't hear from me in an hour...contact me. If I don't answer, call it in". Seriously. I've BEEN dead in a ditch. No desire to do it again. | ||
| Ourdee |
| ||
| Xdigitalx |
I always heard... "Look, it's a possum! or Look out for that possum!! But... "Look it's an Opossum" ??? Can't say I actually remember ever hearing anyone say it like that. haha  | ||
| Aesquire |
What Ratbuell said......... When you hit a critter....pothole......black ice.......you are ballistic. You have just become the pilot of a low flying aircraft. . Bad news. It has no aerodynamic controls. Worse news. You didn't pick a safe vector to touch down upright on the wheels pointed away from obstacles.......the impact picked. Good news. The moves you should make are standard dirt bike moves. That said everyone who posted above is correct. Good luck and good hunting. | ||
| Skntpig |
When in doubt, throttle out. | ||
| Big_island_rider |
Been riding for a while and not hit anything bigger than a grasshopper. My wife rides her own because of deer. I hate deer, they are so stupid. Her first year on the back of my bike we went to Sturgis. Riding back to the campground at night we could see deer eyes in the woods. She told some other ladies in the shower she was scared of the deer. They asked her if she was on the back. They told her she should ride her own, be in control and she would be a lot less scared. They were right. Here in The Big Island we had only goats, sheep and pigs. Goats run away, sheep stay in the mountains away from the streets and the pigs can cause trouble but are usually smart enough. Notice I said "had only". Some @*&%#*& idiots decided that they should be able to hunt deer on this island and brought some Axis deer from Maui in boats and helicopters. Did I mention I HATE deer. | ||
| Jaimec |
Could be worse. About a century ago some IDIOTS thought that moose would be a good game animal to introduce to Newfoundland... an island whose largest terrestrial predators are the fox and lynx. They generally don't enforce speed limits between the towns on "the rock," but no one in their right mind would speed around dusk or dawn. Those who do probably don't live long enough to tell the tale. Those things are HUGE!! | ||
| 86129squids |
A good buddy of mine made a costly and painful mistake in NOT choosing to take one of a cat's nine lives- he locked the front brake on his Yamaha cruiser, endoe'd, and ended up with a separated shoulder and some extra aches/pains/bruises. He's only been riding a couple of years, but as a new rider he's done all the due diligence stuff- MSF class, all the gear, and he's come to me many times for advice... Glad to see this thread. I'm always scanning every bit of the road as far out as possible, but it's a good reminder to scan also the possible areas OTHER than the road where critters might be. Once had a wild turkey commit suicide on Foothills Parkway by running into my front wheel on the Buell- hit it at a 90 degree angle, all I saw was a brown blur bounce off, then the bird ragdolling down the road. Heck, the first ride I took this past weekend in the Alps was with Dennis C, just the little 226 loop out and back- every other turn had gravel wash, and halfway through not one, but TWO mutts decided to attack and chase us. That time I was already paranoid about the gravel, and wasn't looking for the dang dogs! Eyes UP, scan 100% whilst rolling! Rubber side down, youn's... | ||
| Trojan |
Hitting critters....what helps you keep shiny side up? Make sure you hit the small ones only! I once hit a chicken on my Ducati 250 and was picking feathers out of it for months afterwards! I'd hate to hit anything with a faired bike (although an elk would probably stop me thinking about cleaning it afterwards!). | ||
| Jaimec |
Deer are starting to pop up even in densely populated Long Island. Couple of weeks ago we had a fawn run out into the road and parallel us for several yards before it darted back into the trees. A little farther on an adult was scampering along a fence looking for a way off the roadway. Never used to think about deer while riding around here but I see I have to readjust my thinking. "Deer Crossing" signs have even popped up on some of my favorite local roads too. My friend calls them "rats with hooves." Where he lives (in the Poconos) they routinely DESTROY his garden. His opinion was lowered even farther when one darted out of a cornfield directly into him in mid-afternoon in broad daylight several years ago. He spent a loooong time recuperating after that encounter. He got the worst of it. The deer hobbled off out of sight, and his R100GS was hardly damaged at all. | ||
| Thumper74 |
I live in a medium sized (40,000 people) suburb of Cleveland, complete with wannabe rappers and loud stereos. There was a deer in my front yard a few weeks ago and in the spring I almost hit a fox... I try to avoid hitting anything on the bike, but did manage a rabbit who had a lapse in judgement. I swear I could 'feel' it under the tires. I went back and he was toast... I have a buddy who's a wildlife management officer around Cleveland and hit a deer on his CBR. He was in the hospital for a few weeks because of it. | ||
| Court |
My (ONLY) experience . . . I've had them run parallel to the road for nearly a mile and then dart back into the brush (yep, have the photos) AND (from just last night, on my little 250 mile "ride around the block") I notice that the little babies run like hell while the mom's and pop's kinda gallop along . . . . | ||
| Fltwistygirl |
Lots of good info on here. Good to have input from so many experienced riders who have such diverse riding experiences. Wow, fast- Squirrels, pigs, possums, armadillos, gators. That is quite the variety of wildlife! I have seen a gator on 441 near Tavares, but it fortunately was in the other lane as I was on my way to work. I did do a double take to make sure that was what I saw. We used to hear about jet skiers jumping over gators in canals and lakes. Along with the cottonmounths, can't say I miss that aspect of FLA one bit. "I wonder if any of us know how often we are lucky. The times the deer turned the other way and we never knew it was there, or the squirrel that ran out into a nice banked corner as we approached under speed, only to see it dart back from where it came." No kidding! Especially in wooded areas where you may not have a clear line of sight to what is lurking beyond the treeline. Scary stuff. "an awful stench began. The radiator was still crammed with deer & deer byproducts..." Yes, the same deal was going on with my brothers bike and rabbit bits. I thanked him for sharing. "And when the deer are REALLY running? I text a friend before I leave. "headed home, if you don't hear from me in an hour...contact me. If I don't answer, call it in"." Good idea, Rat. I do the same, pretty much every time I head out solo on a ride. Good idea, filing the flight plan. It's vast country here in the mountains as well as in no-mans land MN. Way different from FLA where there's wall to wall people and pretty consistent cell reception. Ourdee-nice video. It happened fast!! "The moves you should make are standard dirt bike moves." Without a doubt, dirtbike experience can help in a number of street riding situations. Plenty non-paved roads out there to practice on. | ||
| Satori |
This thread is full of great advice. I have to agree with Fltwistygirl. There is one thing that I haven't seen though. I grew up in SE Montana, there was a population back then of of about 7 deer to every person. One thing I learned when I first started Driving, that was pounded into my head. When it came time for dusk, especially those last 30 minutes, pull over. Stop. Take a break, get a cup of coffee, whatever. Just don't be on the road. This is true especially if there are wooded areas around, and there's either water, or grazing areas around. To this day I still do this, and it's served me well. Haven't hit a dear yet. | ||
| Sifo |
One thing to keep in mind with deer. When you see one, more often follow. Riding in northern Michigan years back one ran in front of the car in front of me on the expressway. I was slowing down and scanning for more deer. The driver of the car never slowed and was pointing the deer out to the the passenger. He never even saw the second deer. Made a real mess of his car. I've missed the second, third, and fourth deer many times. Always been lucky enough to have time to react to the first deer. Those ones can get you. Some how I've hit more birds than anything. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2S4y-u0o5Y |
