| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep |
I noticed the Kel Tec P3AT has a "belt clip" accessory so that a CCW licensor can clip the gun into a pocket or belt like they would a knife. Clever idea. These guns are built without a normal safety of any kind, like a revolver. They have a drop safety so they won't go off if you drop them or bang on them, the trigger actually has to be pulled. And the trigger itself is very heavy with a very long travel. So what do people think about carrying inside the waistband or inside the pocket just using the little metal clip but no other holster? Don't ever do it? Don't do it with a round in the chamber? Do it and be careful, just like you have to be careful when using a holster? In theory I think I would only lean towards carry this way but without a round in the chamber most of the time. If knowingly going into a particularly sketchy situation, then *maybe* carry like this with one in the chamber but don't sit down or do too much energetic movement. (googled up picture)  And probably just buy an IWB holster. The clip (at $12 for the clip and $230 for the gun) seems like a useful thing to have on the gun anyway regardless of if you almost never carry that way. There is no right answer, just looking for opinions. | ||
| Zane |
I have a Keltek P3 in .32 auto. It was my every day carry weapon for almost 10 year. Every easy gun to live with since it is so small and weighs next to nothing. I never used a pocket clip on mine. For the first year I just used a cut down soft eye glass case. When that wore out I got a no name pocket holster. That worked very well. Held the gun in a good position to draw fairly fast yet was undetectable in the pocket. Really easy to carry that way. I always thought the pocket clip was a good idea but never got around to getting one. I stopped carrying on a regular basis several years ago but seems like the world is in a downward spiral mode and have considered carrying again. Maybe it's time to order that pocket clip. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
have a LCP love it no stupid clip on it though, thankfully | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
I don't think the belt clip thing is legal. Every time I read about legal carrying, It has to be in a holster that covers the trigger. This includes the wallet style holster that has a hole for your finger to pull the trigger | ||
| Zane |
Reepicheep, Is your Keltek a .32 or the newer .380 version? Mine is the .32 model and the felt recoil is fairly pronounced because the gun has no weight to soak it up. Do you or anyone have any experience shooting both? I'd be interested in a description of the difference in felt recoil between the .32 and .380 models. Anyone? | ||
| Aesquire |
No silly rules in NY for holsters that I know of. Odd, since they have silly rules for everything else... some of them illegal. OTOH in NY concealed means no one can ever see it, period..... or they will freak and you will be arrested for "brandishing" when someone catches a glimpse as you sit down at the diner. As far as pocket carry goes, if the clip keeps it hidden, Great! I haven't tried one, but it works for knives just fine. One hard and serious rule... NOTHING else goes in that pocket. No change, keys, anything. Except a pocket holster. Nothing except your finger should be able to touch the trigger. A key ring, perhaps, with the clip. Try it and see if anything touches the gun... if so, don't. Don't. Clip or pocket holster ( DeSantis, no name, whatever ) is also a MUST. it keeps the dimes away from the gun ( locks up a revolver hard ) and more important keeps the orientation so you can grasp it. Most pocket holsters cover the trigger, are smooth inside, and sticky on the outside, so they stay in place. You are an order of magnitude safer with a well designed pocket holster rather than just sliding a gun in your pocket. In multiple ways. With tight jeans or khakis it's important to be able to draw even if you are in a weird position, Get knocked on your butt or your side? CAN you draw from a sitting position? If not can you draw from a laying on the hard dirty ground? practice with an empty gun rolling around on the living room floor. ( don't let anyone watch... it's embarrassing, really. ) Pocket holsters also break up the outline of the gun to keep it from "printing" on your clothes.........followed by "OMG he's got a gun!" and police problems. Yeah NY sucks. As far as condition of carry.... If you don't trust a gun with a round in the chamber, it's not suitable for carry. The Kel-tecs, Kahrs, Rugers, etc. all are fine with a round chambered. IF in a holster, pocket holster or stabilized with a clip. The 1911 variants, there you have some concern about how to carry. "Condition 1...2....3" with them it might be safer to carry condition 3, chamber empty, full magazine. Then you need 2 hands or practice in belt cycling one handed. The 1911 guys may not agree.... but it's just NOT a pocket gun. The 1911 may be the finest defensive weapon made by man, but it's got switches and modes, and techniques for carry developed over a century.... It's freaking 103 years old! Do it and be careful, just like you have to be careful when using a holster? yes. | ||
| Aesquire |
My choice... works perfect. http://www.desantisholster.com/THE-NEMESIS I haven't tried this one... looks good. http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/AlternateCarry/t abid/161/Default.aspx http://www.bianchi-intl.com/pocket-piece I want one of these for the Zombie Apocalypse. http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/BellyBandLarge/t abid/110/ProductID/55/Default.aspx and completely off topic.... these are genius. http://www.crossbreedholsters.com/BedsideOhai/tabi d/162/Default.aspx I may have to get this one.... my buddy is bugging me to get a tablet. http://www.galcogunleather.com/idefense_8_393_1352 .html or for the techie on the go.... http://www.sneakypeteholsters.com/ This may be the best alternative to the fanny/waist pack holsters that are no longer in style. I see an adult with a fanny pack today, I assume he's carrying. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
I know this is not an answer to your question but a makarov 9x18 in a pancake kinda makes it all redundant. What a great, inexpensive, robust, reliable pistol. | ||
| Swampy |
KelTec P3AT in the front pocket in a holster. I do carry a small pocket knife in the same pocket that lays horizontal at the bottom of the pocket and fills in the pocket a little concealing the little gun even more. I carried an AMT 380 back up for 10 or 15 years before the KelTec. I have a Taurus PT 738 also, it is a cute pink and stainless gun. I haven't carried it yet nor have I fired it, I bought it to impress some Japanese visitors a couple of years ago. The AMT failed to fire for me once due to a buildup of pocket lint so it is very important to keep your firearm clean. I like the single action only of the KelTec and I carry with one in the chamber because I am not worried of someone grabbing it like a gun carried in the belt. My wife's cousin carries a Taurus 380 in the front pocket in a holster but he does not keep a round in the chamber. So the story goes-do what you are comfortable with. Yes the 380 in a small gun has felt recoil that seems more than a full framed 9 mm. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I found the CZ52 and CZ82 kinda heavy for pocket carry. Aesquire... brilliant. That Desantis looks like a slam dunk.  The clip on the side is an ad hoc solution for an ad hoc problem, particularly if I have to hide it in a car or something to enter a school. (I hate that I am forced to leave an unsecured weapon in a place where it is vulnerable to theft or misuse... I can live with loosing $230 to a thief, but I hate the thought of arming one) | ||
| Aesquire |
....failed to fire for me once due to a buildup of pocket lint so it is very important to keep your firearm clean. Pocket lint and coins are the nemesis of a functioning machine. A holster doesn't eliminate the problem, it just makes it better. IMHO they are a must to keep it from printing....and more important, hold the gun so you can get a grip without fumbling. Pocket carry is always going to be slower than a out in plain view duty rig or thigh holster. But..... usually you only need one hand, and the motion is more natural ( and less alarming to others ) than the trained sweep the garment aside to reach the holster. True, a good waist holster is still faster, training being equal, but clothing is a serious variable. For car use, or sitting in the office, an ankle holster is a good choice.... One word of advice... Walk around the house for an hour....or more, to get rid of the unnatural limp an ankle holster gives you. Same is true for any method. Walk around, pick up pens from the floor, go up and down stairs... at home. That let's you find the weakness in your method of carry, and adapt, or change. IHMO the wider the Velcro band around the leg, and the more fixed the holster is to it, the better on an ankle rig. This one works for a buddy of mine. Big guy, professional driver. Muscular legs. you never notice it. ( KEY ) and it doesn't shift around when you walk, A narrow band on the leg lacks stability. http://www.desantisholster.com/DIE-HARD-ANKLE-RIG Other pocket rigs... I have not tried all these, but they seem worth a look. http://www.desantisholster.com/THE-TRICKSTER http://www.safariland.com/DutyGear/product.aspx?pi d=22 http://www.desantisholster.com/POCKET-TUK and an Alternative method... someone made a "bikers wallet" holster that you could shoot the gun in, with a cut out on the "butt side" for the trigger finger. I never tried one, figured it a gimmick. This one might be ok. I have not tried it. http://www.desantisholster.com/POCKET-SHOT Sorry if DeSantis got most of the attention here. I just saw the stuff I wanted to point out quickest there. ( and I know their stuff works. ) Most of the holster makers make a very good product, and the multitude of small shop holster guys have outstanding products. | ||
| Mnrider |
A friend has an LCP and it's a fine gun but too small for my hands. I carry my LC9 inside the waist band with a Blackhawk holster. The LC9 has a real safety so I leave a chambered round in it. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I really like the ankle holster for both discretion and for comfort. Only tried one (Uncle Mike's I think, wide strap) and it works great. Like you say, it makes deployment a lot more complicated though. | ||
| Kenm123t |
1911 is a pocket pistol in cargo pants lol but you do have to carry the Chip McCormick Mags on the left side for balance. I carry a load of tools all time so lumpy pockets are a non issue | ||
| Littlebuggles |
I really don't like having a firearm in my pocket, just too much work to get to the thing if I really need it; especially if you are sitting. I like the clip in theory, waist band is nearly always where I wear, typically in a outside holster, but I can see that application being useful. Would clip nicely inside an inside jacket pocket too, concealed but a fairly easy reach. This is coming from someone who mostly carries on duty, and even concealed, my small gun is the Glock model 26. | ||
| No_rice |
this is how my lcp 380 is carried(internet pic, although i have the other flat base on my mag). replaces my wallet perfectly, and puts it in a spot that is that is habit to reach into(especially when someone is wanting money...) instead of in an odd location. so it makes it second nature.  | ||
| Thumper74 |
I have the P32, but don't use the clip because of the 'covering the trigger' thing. I just use a pocket holster. There's a company that makes trigger covers for waistband carry. It snaps over the trigger guard, so the covered trigger is satisfied, but it's connected to a belt loop, so when you draw, the trigger cover snaps off. www.onesourcetactical.com | ||
| Ourdee |
Clipdraw SA-B Black Universal for all Semi Autos  Works good on the side of an XDS, and I was in Cook County today. I try to stay out of Cook County. A friend that worked DEA showed one to me that is on his Glock that he used to carry when he needed no one to see it. Remember the best gunfight is the one you are not in. I saw a few "stupid" signs today. You know the 4x6 no gun signs. Do I really want to go in places that post them? No. Any one carrying illegal is not going to mind the signs. It's message to me is that they are to irrational to do business with you. +1 on pocket with gun is gun only. I like the back-strap safety on the XDS. You can have a trigger guard with your clip:  Food for thought: In the space I carry an extra 100 rounds of .45ACP, I can carry 500 rounds of .22LR . note: I rarely carry more than 25 rounds of .45 , but, think nothing of throwing 50 rounds of .22 in my pocket for the 21a. | ||
| Reepicheep |
The pop off trigger guard on a lanyard is very clever. | ||
| Thumper74 |
Ourdee, that's almost exactly what I was talking about. | ||
| Gregtonn |
I'll be back machining Ruger LCP slides on Monday. Just for the record I would carry with a round in the chamber. You never know what your off hand will be occupied with. The "shooting yourself in the dick" thing is...??? Getting shot while trying to chamber a round real. G | ||
| Gregtonn |
Didn't we do this a few years back with the .45 ACP? (Yeah I know it was quite a few years back but I'm old.) Didn't we go to the the 9mm because it was more "user friendly"? (Actually a 9mm with the correct ammo is just as efficient as a .45.) "Army to replace 9mm pistol with more reliable gun packing better 'knock down’ power By Joseph Weber ·Published July 12, 2014· FoxNews.com FILE: 2007: A U.S. army instructor fires with Colombian soldiers during a combat exercise in a southern Colombian.REUTERS The Army wants to retire its supply of 9mm handguns and replace it with a more accurate and user-friendly model that also will provide soldiers with more “knock-down” power. Army officials say their inventory of more than 200,000 semi-automatic Beretta M9 and Sig Sauer M11 pistols has become outdated, worn out and needs to be replaced with an updated model that also offers more reliability and durability. They also are considering new ammunition, which has sparked considerable debate among military and civilian weapons experts, too. “Advancements in firearms have taken place since the M9 was adopted nearly 30 years ago, and it is our intent to take advantage of these advancements,” a military spokesperson told FoxNews.com on Friday. “The Army is seeking to replace the M9 and M11 pistols with a handgun that is more accurate, ergonomic, reliable and durable than the current pistol.” Officials seem opposed to an update version of the Beretta M9, despite the company offering to make changes. "We have submitted numerous changes or product improvements that really address a lot of the shortcomings that are either perceived or real," Beretta development manager Gabe Bailey recently told Military.com. The Army has been considering a change for several years and on July 29 will hold a so-called “industry day” to brief gun manufacturers about the competition requirements for a winning proposal. The Defense Department will reportedly buy more than 400,000 new pistols if and when officials agree on a new model. Beyond the 9mm’s durability issues, which Army officials says are costing them too much in repairs, soldiers also say the pistol needs a more ergonomic grip, its safety device too often locks inadvertently and its open-slide bullet chamber allows in too much dirty, which results in jamming. Still, the other big issue appears to be about the caliber of the new ammunition, considering most experts argue a person must be hit with several 9 mm rounds to be killed. “We are not dictating a caliber during the competition,” the spokesperson said. “A vendor may submit multiple calibers of ammunition. However, the ammunition must exceed the performance of the current M882 9mm round.” Among those likely to be considered in the Modular Handgun System competition are the .40 and .45 caliber rounds. The argument against the .40 caliber round is that its heavier weight and stronger recoil causes excessive wear on a 9 mm pistol. There have been no reports on how much the new weapons will cost, amid budget concerns. However, in September 2012, Beretta received a 5-year, $64 million firm-fixed-price contract for up to 100,000 of its M9 9mm pistols, according to Defense Industry Daily. Following industry day, the Army will release a draft Request for Proposal, which seeks input from manufacturers. The Army will then consider the manufacturers’ comments and modify the request, if necessary. It will then hold a final industry day before issuing a final proposal before the end of the year. The next phase will essentially be a tryout and elimination process, which officials say will be based on technical results and will rely “heavily” on soldier feedback. “One of the primary requirements for this weapon system is to provide the soldier with increased terminal performance,” the spokesperson said. “Feedback from soldiers in the field is that they want increased ‘knock-down power.’ And the MHS program will evaluate commercially available weapons that meet that requirement.” G | ||
| Aesquire |
Keep in mind the modern ammo civilians can use is a world different than military ball. "Why do you carry a .45?" "Because they don't make a .46." (Actually they do now........  but it's a big game hunting round...... and the bullet is still a .45........ the name is marketing. ) No need to rehash the .45 vs. 9mm argument. Bigger is..... better...... except when you want to hide it. There are some pocket sized .45s and some like and some can't use for various reasons. I like the wee glock but it's a bulky lump compared to the LC9 or Kimber Solo. I haven't shot the G29 in 10mm but I'd like to..... I don't know if I'd be comfortable with the Recoil. I don't mind a tiny 9. I'm ok with a tiny .45, depending on grip design. ( I'm fine with an alloy Commander but that has a full man sized grip ) | ||
| Ratbuell |
Arm yourself for the intended purpose. Something like the LCP is going to be close-quarters, within-arms-reach situations - you're being mugged, the furthest you may have to fire it will be from the ground to torso height (if the offender has knocked you down). No need for anything bigger, IMO. Do you plan on firing at a target two doors down? Across the street? Down the block? Then, go .45 or 9mm - and that is why LEOs carry such weapons, in case they have a more distant target or multiples that include distance. If I'm being mugged and the guy bolts? Let 'em run, I don't need the hassle of trying to hit them at a distance. My threat has been neutralized (the purpose of an LCP style weapon). In my home, I'm OLD-school - 1951 Colt 4" OP .38, with 125gr hollowpoints. Again - close quarters. If they're in my house, they're close enough for a .38. Hollowpoints and relatively light loading for stopping power without through-and-through (and drywall work after the fact...I hate patching drywall...).  Bigger than a thin guy like me can comfortably conceal (I do have a shoulder rig, but living in the Republik der Marylander I can't legally carry anyway), but effective enough at close quarters. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
One thought for a pretty nice round for the Army is one I worked with for a while and is the .45 Super. I loaded these to right around the .41 Magnum power and was pleased shooting it in my then HK USP full size. Really manageable recoil and the USP was a fine pistol all be it too big for my personal carry piece. I AM old school and like the .45's so I went now with my current Glock30. Either the HK or the Glock full size would be a fine defensive pistol for the Army to consider since many of our military special ops people carry .45's now and many military's around the world carry Glocks in various calibers. If it worked once against the drugged up Moro's in the Philippines it would surely work against religious and other fanaticals. If the Army wants more knock down power in a reliable handgun one of these should really shine in tests. By the way I love the 10mm in either pistol also, and more rounds in the magazine. | ||
| Aesquire |
While the .41 magnum 10mm class round is nigh perfect IMHO too, the .45acp is the high end with acceptable recoil for most. As shown over a century. I'm all in favor of a .45 service round too. I like the Glock 30. I find it a bit firm for an IPSC competition course, but workable. The LC9 just fits better in a pocket I think. | ||
| Ducbsa |
If they choose the .45, they should bring back the tommy gun, too!  | ||
| Aesquire |
The Thompson is heavy. Better choice would be the US designed and built Kriss Super V. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnKd6iXHTQg But that's off topic, it not being very pocket carry friendly. OTOH I can't shoot 1100 rounds a minute with a P3AT. OTOH I don't have to pay for the 1100 rounds a minute with a P3AT. (Message edited by aesquire on July 14, 2014) | ||
| Rick_a |
FWIW I ankle carry when possible and pocket as a last resort... And no, a 1911 is not a pocket gun, but makes an excellent condition one carry piece. I carry a J frame for a little gun. I'd sure like to have a Colt D frame for a smaller waistband gun. | ||
| Rick_a |
The Army has been "looking for a few good 45's" for almost a decade. I'm not holding my breath. |
