| Author | Message | ||
     Fb1 |
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| Pwnzor |
Murder rate drops as CCW permits rise | ||
| Fb1 |
Pwnzor, go figure. How can that be?  | ||
| Rah7777777 |
I have nothing against target with their statement. It was simply a response from those stupid open carry activists who parade around pretending to teach others about the 2nd amendment, but in reality make all the true and responsible gun owners (myself) look bad. I carry concealed every time I go into Target, no issues before or after their statement. | ||
| Fb1 |
I have nothing against target with their statement. Respectfully disagree. I concur with the VCDL's position above. It was simply a response from those stupid open carry activists... There are varying shades of gray on this issue, IMO, i.e. open carry shouldn't be considered "wrong," and there sure is an effort on behalf of the grabbers to demonize such. OTOH, I've seen (online, not yet in person) folks who take open carry to what I consider to be the extreme, perhaps to make a 2A point, or perhaps just to garner the attention. It must be tough for a business, especially one as large and viable at Target or Starbucks, to tell the grabbers to simply get lost, considering how easy it is to organize a nationwide boycott these days (especially easy considering how corrupt the mainstream press is). Target probably did the right thing from a business point of view (trying to remain neutral?), but the patriot in me wishes just once that a Target or a Starbucks would take a vocal corporate stand AGAINST the grabbers and say, "Hey, if you don't like our Constitution and Bill of Rights, move to another country." Here's a short video produced by ABC News' Nightline about the Virginia Citizens Defense League, an organization which, among other things, actively promotes open carry here in Virginia. Perhaps you're familiar with them, or perhaps not, but this should give the viewer, particularly someone not in favor of open carry, some food for thought. That's VCDL President Philip Van Cleave at 1:52 into the vid. Take care, Ferris
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| Hybridmomentspass |
nah those OCT guys are buttholes sorry, but when you and half a dozen of your buddies go to Target for Oreos while carrying ARs - youre an butthole. Exacerbated that you had someone come to document the event. THats right, they made it an event. Im all for OCing, but have some dang class and stop trying to make a statement or make people uncomfortable | ||
| Ratbuell |
I'm all for CC...but OC is a bit much IMHO. I learned at an early age (6 or 7 years old) that a sidearm is a LAST resort. The only person who should ever know you are carrying it, is the person you are prepared to use it against. Never shoot to wound. Never brandish. Never reveal until there are no other options. In my mind...THAT is responsible gun ownership. These OC nuts are making the whole cause look bad. *Should* OC be allowed? Yes, I believe it should. Is turning it into a form of sideshow a good idea? No. It is not, and it hurts us all when they do it. They become the caricature, the stereotype..."the problem". | ||
| Fb1 |
...a sidearm is a LAST resort. I'm sure most OC proponents agree with you on this. The only person who should ever know you are carrying it, is the person you are prepared to use it against. I don't pretend to speak for anyone but myself, but I've read much to suggest that OC is a very good "preemptive strike," if you will, against someone who may mean to do you harm. I'm inclined to agree, and have a real-world experience to support this theory. Never shoot to wound. Of course, and any OC proponent would agree. Never brandish. Please define brandish by your definition. Would simply carrying open be brandishing in your opinion? Put another way, would you consider the folks at the VCDL picnic in the video I posted above to be brandishing? Never reveal until there are no other options. Again, OC folks disagree on this point. Neither side is wrong, IMO. I don't typically OC, although it is legal to do so here in Virginia (and in North Carolina, where I often find myself since I live so close to the state line). That said, I've never had an "issue" when I've chosen to OC - a lot of it, of course, is in how you present yourself (which applies to many things in life, not just the matter of carrying a firearm), and I think the good people up here in the mountains where I live typically think carrying a firearm is the norm and don't really think too much about seeing one on someone's hip. Which is as it should be. Take care, Ferris | ||
| Aesquire |
In Texas there's a term seldom heard in Virginia, which is a pity. "Barbecue gun". The formal best finished pistol you wear on such formal occasions as the neighborhood bbq. Often a reflection of personality like a chromed .45........ The anti civil rights folk WANT you to think yourself different from the OC advocates. They want to divide and conquer. They even complain that the police shouldn't carry guns...........until they get robbed. Don't fall for the hype. I'm not telling you to carry a Garand into Target where it is legal to do so...... but notice the anti's are trying to make their own laws here. Not by any legal means but by threats and intimidation. They want to disarm you. Period. Split the hunters from the CC defensive carry guys and the CC from the OC....... "no sporting purpose" ....... "brandishing"..........don't be a sucker and let them fool you. If you own a gun they want it and they will cheer if your home burns down when the SWAT team throws flash bangs and tear gas in as they "follow up on a tip" | ||
| Fb1 |
The anti civil rights folk WANT you to think yourself different from the OC advocates. ...the anti's are trying to make their own laws here. Not by any legal means but by threats and intimidation. They want to disarm you. Period. Split the hunters from the CC defensive carry guys and the CC from the OC....... If you own a gun they want it... Couldn't agree more. Which is why, IMO, the statement from Target was actually a huge victory for the anti's: They (the grabbers) successfully removed yet another brick from the wall. And which is why I think the statement from the VCDL to Target is so important and correct. | ||
| Macbuell |
I am huge proponent of 2nd amendment rights but just not a big fan of open carry. Whether we love guns or hate guns you have to recognize that their is a certain portion of the population that are uncomfortable with them. That being the case, why poke the hornets nest? Why push those neutral to the issue to the other side. Because the pure fact of the matter is that there is very little chance someone neutral on gun rights will be pushed to support more gun rights by seeing someone walking around with a gun on his hip or an AR over his shoulder. My wife is a huge proponent on 2nd amendment rights and came across some guy wearing a gun on his hip in a local outlet mall. She was unnerved and completely uncomfortable with it. If that is her reaction, I can guarantee many others will have a far more powerful reaction and it won't be in support of gun rights. I'm sorry but I just don't see any positives to open carry. Please carry concealed. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Quoted: "The only person who should ever know you are carrying it, is the person you are prepared to use it against." Fb1's response: "I don't pretend to speak for anyone but myself, but I've read much to suggest that OC is a very good I'm inclined to agree, and have a real-world experience to support this theory." And, quoted: "Never brandish." Fb1's response: "Please define brandish by your definition. Would simply carrying open be brandishing in your opinion? Put another way, would you consider the folks at the VCDL picnic in the video I posted above to be brandishing?" I agree with most of those statements from both sides and will add: Recently in Utah we changed the brandishing law to permit some forms of it. I.E., especially in a case where the act of brandishing could stem a possible violent act against you or a loved one, even a friend. Again FB1's "preemptive strike," if you will, against someone who may mean to do you harm." I believe Utah feels this may actually save a life by stopping the threat before it escalates. Now, so much of all this really does depend on the integrity of the persons involved. I also believe there are too many idiots out there with way too much macho carrying weapons one way or another. Last year a guy carried an AR15 slung on his shoulder into a Target store three blocks from my home. Idiot; just what was he trying to prove. No charges or even very many "looks". We are a user friendly state but that was just dumb. Lastly, I have had a CC permit for over 20 years and have never had a reason to even brandish it.....ever, let alone pull a trigger against someone. I know other areas of the country are not as crime free though. I carry 98% of the time and also found very little reason to open carry except in BLM, National Forests or rural areas where I'm recreating and then with a much larger caliber and sidearm mostly for wild animals. But also believe firmly: "better to have it and not need it then need it and not have it" in all situations. I am a firm 2nd Amendment right person but agree with small requirements such as CC permits (to show you are a (qualified person to carry), but am also firm on the "shall issue" law some states still do not have. We must have a drivers license to drive so it applies for CC carry also and other things as a pilots license or hunting or fishing license, etc, etc. One thing stands clear and firm; we must not let the anti gun zealots impose any more restrictions on out 2nd Amendment rights, the one that guarantees all our other rights. Live free and fight to maintain it. Bob T. (NRA life member) | ||
| Fb1 |
I'm sorry but I just don't see any positives to open carry. Please carry concealed. There ARE positives to open carry, your wife's experience notwithstanding. I open carry on occasion, and am not aware of anyone being frightened or intimidated by seeing a pistol on my hip. That said, I CC most of the time, as I prefer flying under the radar. Thanks for your comments. It sounds like your mind is made up, but have you ever browsed OpenCarry.org's website? I'm not pretending to speak for them; they speak for themselves just fine:
Source: http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=26 It's plainly obvious that the grabbers are trying to demonize guns and gun ownership, one brick at a time. Their "victory" with Target is just such an effort, IMO. I agree with OpenCarry.org: Carrying a sidearm, concealed OR open, should be our nation's "normal," and not something to be afraid of. Thanks again. FB | ||
| Fb1 |
One thing stands clear and firm; we must not let the anti gun zealots impose any more restrictions on out 2nd Amendment rights, the one that guarantees all our other rights. Live free and fight to maintain it. Amen, brother. Amen. | ||
| Blake |
I'm ok with open carry, but myself prefer no carry. My natural bulge frightens most people enough as it is. Seriously though, it's stressful and burdensome to carry a firearm. I don't think the anti-freedom people understand that. That said the idiots who strapped on their AK47s and wore them around Target are freakin' idiots! Their is never going to be anything positive come from that kind of idiotic behavior. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"That said the idiots who strapped on their AK47s and wore them around Target are freakin' idiots! Their is never going to be anything positive come from that kind of idiotic behavior." oh my Lord we agree on SOMETHING! the people in Starbucks, Qdoba, and Target are only making businesses take a side in this "fight." So many companies just want to be neutral and run their business but we are taking the fight to them and forcing them to take a side, which is stupid and wrong. And I agree that carrying a gun is burdensome. Even with my tiny LCP, its still one pocket taken up by a pistol that I've never used (outside the range), and is not forgiving when I sit down, walk etc As I stated, I wouldnt feel as bad about those jerks if they didnt photograph it all and post it on the internet - THEY WANT THE ATTENTION. They want to get in your face and make you uncomfortable. For that - youre a jackass. | ||
| Aesquire |
I tend to agree....but. It's a battle of perceptions, the anti civil rights guys push Fear, and some Pro civil rights guys want to make a point that it's ok and should be socially acceptable to be a responsible citizen. After all, in a time no one in Media TV remembers, having a guy walk into a store with a gun on his hip, or over his shoulder was not grounds for a panic attack or calls to the Sheriff. But. Walking around starbucks with an AK fails IMHO to do the desired job. You want to sell Mayberry, Not Barney Fife. It's a Culture war, you Want attention..... crafting the Image is vital, and I agree this one is a big fail. It's got you guys divided, WHICH IS THE MEDIA's DESIRED EFFECT. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
scared of the media? poor thing | ||
| Macbuell |
To me it's simple ... it's like a gay couple making out in the local Starbucks. If you want to do that, fine. But don't shove it in my face because it makes me uncomfortable. It's the same with open carry. Most people won't care if you carry legally but if you shove it in their faces they are going to start to care and chances are their opinion is not going to align with yours. You are just pushing people to the other side of the fence. Where is the logic in that? Pardon the pun but you might as well just shoot yourself in the foot. | ||
| Aesquire |
scared of the media? poor thing No, detest propaganda. If the Networks decided they wanted to ban Motorcycles, they'd make Motorcycles scary and bad. Ditto Guns. Jews. Negros. Catholics. Protestants. The Dutch. Japanese. etc. etc. All previous examples, if you need references, I can type them into Google for you. | ||
| Aesquire |
Not work safe. swear words. an opinion. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
yeah type them into google for me, do extra work cause I dont care enough one persons "propaganda" is another persons beliefs its all about perspective | ||
| Buellkowski |
The "messages" sent in public: CC (or maybe not?): I may (or may not) kill you (I have the benefit of the doubt).  OC in a recognizable uniform: I will kill you if ordered by a public authority, and according to publicly established rules of engagement.  OC in an unrecognizable uniform: I will kill you if my political organization deems it necessary.  OC in no uniform: I will kill you if *I* think you should die.  Own, carry, and represent. But do so RESPECTFULLY and RESPONSIBLY. | ||
| Aesquire |
one persons "propaganda" is another persons beliefs It can be that way. In this case it's not, more along the lines of speeches about fatcat bankers and Jews corrupting society. Read about Handgun Control, Inc. ( the former name of the Brady center to Exploit a crippled guy ) They used to spell out their agenda in their manual. I wish I still had my copy. Loaned it out and it never came back. Out of Print. The Brady folk do not want YOU to read it. Short form. Divide and conquer, give an object a scary name, Demonize them, get the object banned and the Citizens who tell the truth.... shut up. Repeat with new scary name.. "Assault Weapon" is a fictional name designed to be given to an object to scare people and use as a tool. No Real Meaning. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon This definition, btw changes rapidly. It's a political term, not a reality one. It's Purpose is fear and it's meant as a lie, from day one. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1106996/p osts | ||
| Rah7777777 |
I find it very easy to carry concealed. In fact I feel like I've left my phone and wallet at home when I don't carry. I run 2-3 miles a few times a week and it's still on my waist band... But I'll never support open carry, I hate the idea. Especially unlicensed folks with rifles walking around a store thinking its cool to show off their tactical stuff to all the moms and children who don't know what's going on. I agree 10000% with Ratbuell above. No one should know your carrying until there's a boom and a piece of lead in a shit bag! | ||
| Blake |
To clarify my earlier comment, "it's stressful and burdensome to carry a firearm", was speaking to the serious responsibility of potentially bringing the weapon into play in a serious confrontation and being confident in proper and judicious outcome. If we cannot make it to the range on a regular basis, and if we don't train to use a firearm to defend life and limb, it's irresponsible to be walking around carrying one. Just the physical act of carrying the gun is trivial. I can walk around with a full sized Glock 21 all day and be perfectly comfortable. A Ruger LCP ought to be close to unnoticeable. | ||
| Slaughter |
My assault weapons that I carry on a daily basis:    And the single most dangerous item I carry - I must conceal:  | ||
| Rah7777777 |
Unfortunately I don't think anything in those 3 pictures above will do you any good if some nut job starts shooting up the restaurant your in... I see what you mean Blake. Pulling out a gun is LAST resort. Say you do pull out your weapon and fire at the bad guy, you've now became his #1 target if you miss or he isn't too phased. So he's going to spray in your area, most likely where your loved ones are sitting, so don't miss! Now if you do eliminate the subject you'll face tons of judicial hoops to jump through. Hopefully it's cut and dry, but even so your looking at hours and hours of time, I'm sure a good amount of money and you'll probably have media hounding at your door for a while. So don't play superman, but defend yourself and your family if it comes to it. And practice, don't carry a gun if the last time you went to the range was when you did your handgun license class (unless recent of course) | ||
| Aesquire |
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