| Author | Message | ||
     Rocket_in_uk |
I wouldn't worry too much about your second link. It's highly unlikely Assad's had communication with Air Wick. Even less likely they'll be able to package Assad's WMD's. Oh wait, they're back to calling them (Syria's) chemical weapons. Boy am I confused. Saddam's WMD's were not nuclear but chemical. Assad has chemical weapons yet no one's saying he's got WMD's. Isn't this reason NOT to invade Syria? Yeah thought so. Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
I mention yellow cake because that was one AQ/D Party/Baathist propaganda line that led to a witch hunt in the US. What the Obama regime calls WMDs depends on the desired result. They were Syrian WMDs when Barack was drawing a red line. And poison gas when he was trying to make people forget it. Maybe some pol in jolly old wants you to think of nuclear silos. On hold until after sanctions/inactive tells me bunkers full of raw material and no progress. As opposed to Iran and multiple centrifuge operation. You have an issue with Goldberg. Hmmm. Is it possible we're talking with your 1984 Landing Strip One persona?  I'll check your bit on anthrax strain. Thank you. Coming soon.... no. Already happened. The airwick bit is coming soon. In a world with cheap gene sequencers it's getting close to script kiddie bio war time. My bet Is the Green party saving Gaia from population growth for that one. Is there a nazi/green crossover? Looks like Obana would support that. | ||
| Aesquire |
I'm no chemist. Maker of chemical equipment, that I've been. Imho the reason not to invade Syria today is religious freedom. The people Obama supports are against it. | ||
| Alfau |
I think the whole world is sick of American bull_shit. Saddam's WMD's were not nuclear but American bull_shit. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I mention yellow cake because that was one AQ/D Party/Baathist propaganda line that led to a witch hunt in the US. No. You mentioned it to imply Saddam was attempting nuclear weaponry. What the Obama regime calls WMDs depends on the desired result. I believe that is my point. And in the case of Iraq, an excuse to invade / go to war, which had the difference been defined earlier, Blair would not have had the support of the Cabinet, he specifically telling them (I won't bother finding the actual quote it's so infamous) Saddam has nuclear bombs and can strike the UK within 45 minutes. Without this blatant lie, Bush would not have gone to war without Blair. Maybe some pol in jolly old wants you to think of nuclear silos. Yes, his name was Blair, and he lied to everyone. On hold until after sanctions/inactive tells me bunkers full of raw material and no progress. I'm not interested in what it tells you. The facts are what matters and no proof exists Saddam could have turned raw material into weapons. You said so yourself. You have an issue with Goldberg. He's a conservative syndicated journalist. What does this tell you about the stuff he'll write? I'll check your bit on anthrax strain. Thank you. Oh hold on a minute. Don't go thanking me. You were adamant earlier it originated from Putin's Russia. You dismissed the inside job I told of. And you claimed to have a degree of expert knowledge. You're unbelievable. Literally. Coming soon.... no. Already happened. Who was mass destroyed by these WMD attacks? I do believe 'mass' has a rather large figure attached to it. I would guess this means thousands or even hundreds of thousands. Not tens or hundreds of people. And please don't tell me the Kurds. We're specifically dealing with the capability to attack the west from Iraq. The airwick bit is coming soon. In a world with cheap gene sequencers it's getting close to script kiddie bio war time. But then your expertise went out the window with your Russian anthrax lie. And the Japanese underground attack killed those involved, which kind of tells me it's a bit more complex than a home chemist set and some empty air wick sprays. Should we be worried? No more than trying to cross a busy motorway on foot in rush hour I'd suggest. Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
No. You mentioned it to imply Saddam was attempting nuclear weaponry. No, why imply a well known fact. Saddam wanted the Bomb. Didn't have one. Did have the raw materials, and was pushing to end the sanctions so he could start up the inactive program again. ...no proof exists Saddam could have turned raw material into weapons. You said so yourself. ? Inactive. Program. Real but not operational. Bombed out. UN Inspected. IN...... ( wait for it )...... ACTIVE. I'm thinking you don't like Blair.  What does this tell you about the stuff he'll write? That it will be generally factually accurate, but slanted. As opposed to outright lies and denial from leftists. Gotta know the players. Grain of salt. When the NY Times tells me "Russian tanks cross border" and the article reads "3 t-64 tanks..." and then says the Ukraine Army killed 2 of them, I get out the grains of salt & consider the source. I know T-64 tanks are old. They must come from a stockpile. Russia still has T-55 tanks in storage, just in case they need them. Like if China invades. Sending T-64's means they could be stolen from the incompetent clowns in the Russian Army by Patriotic Peace Loving Freedom Fighters Eager To Kill Nazis........ Or plausible deniability cheap aid to Russian allies. And you claimed to have a degree of expert knowledge. You're unbelievable. Literally. I do have some expert knowledge. I also can be mistaken, or have read & believed an incorrect report. I could be wrong You, apparently, cannot. Who was mass destroyed by these WMD attacks? I do believe 'mass' has a rather large figure attached to it. I would guess this means thousands or even hundreds of thousands. Not tens or hundreds of people. If you set off a 50 megaton Fusion bomb and only kill 7 people, it's still a WMD attack. The Dead were still murdered by a WMD. Our dead were murdered by a WMD. My fellow workers and a little old lady. The target was a politician. He's fine. There is no justice, eh? The term is for indiscriminate weapons. Terror weapons. And the Japanese underground attack killed those involved, which kind of tells me it's a bit more complex than a home chemist set and some empty air wick sprays. Should we be worried? No more than trying to cross a busy motorway on foot in rush hour I'd suggest. Ah! at last you see my point, and again, get it all wrong. In reverse order... worried? What scenario do you find more likely? Green lunatics starting a plague, or Green authoritarians ordering your death in gas chambers for the good of Mother Earth? ( weren't gas chambers a George Bernard Shaw idea? Famous Brit, right? ) Pick your own worries. Crossing the street has a higher probability to kill you than terrorist attack. Slipping in the Tub is higher danger yet. That makes little difference when you are beheaded in the street or choke to death in the Subway. If I were you, I'd put down those non skid bits in the tub, and look both ways crossing the street. I'd also take the Subway unless there was reason not to, like an epidemic or bomb threats. Yes, MILITARY delivery of bioweapons takes some sophistication that you're unlikely to see from some rebel's basement. I made that point a while ago. It's the lunatic fringe you have to worry about, Greenie, Jihadi, perhaps Guardian readers.  | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/turing-te st-passed-nanotech-conference-interesting-week/ I think it is important to understand that Putin is not motivated simply by a despotic urge to seize and wield power. He truly believes that Western Culture is decadent and doomed, and alas he has a lot of evidence for that. What we call rule of law he sees as a deception. After all the President of the United States does not act as if he cares a fig for rule of law when it comes to constraints on his activities; nor do the Brussels bureaucrats, nor does much of merry old England. France is not known for its bureaucratic restraint. Putin has plenty of evidence that the US security services don’t much observe any rule of law. He has Edward Snowden to give him details. And... Regarding deals after the collapse of the USSR, you will understand that the Bush I White House expelled every Reagan sympathizer the day after George H. W. Bush took office. That specifically included all those involved in Strategic defense, which meant that neither General Graham nor I had many sources after that – which is why we had to present the SSX proposal to Vice President Quayle as head of the National Space Council rather than to the National Security Advisor. Precisely what handshake and wink agreements were made about expansion of NATO is not known to me. After the attempted putsch put Yeltsin in power, Putin was out of the loop for several years before he became a rising star under Yeltsin; whatever Yeltsin knew about understandings over NATO expanding into the former USSR, Putin will know. He has every reason to believe that both Germany and France would like some compensation for the Cold War, and that Germany does not really accept the acquisition of Silesia by Poland, nor the abolition of Prussia in favor of Russia. There are plenty of territorial disputes in Europe, and many sides to the arguments, and damned few of them rest on self determination of nations. The Baltic Republics are a special case, since the importation of ethnic Russians was a deliberate act of conquest carried out against nations that the United States recognized as remaining sovereign despite the German and Russian conquests. We could make the case that the Baltic republics were simply the successors of the nations established after World War I, and that we had never recognized any Russian sovereignty over them; and indeed I understand that is the position of the State Department. Georgia on the other hand has never been any part of NATO business. It is probably time for the US to give Brussels the responsibility for much of European Security, there being no real need for US forces to be involved. Germany, Britain, and France are economically capable of building their own military forces; they have huddled behind the shield of the United States of America long enough. They don’t furnish any addition to American security. And yes, of course we can make an exception for the mother country, provided that she survives the collapse of empire and the remaking of the island. Maybe there will always be an England even… US intervention in the Balkans made it clear to Russia that even with Yeltsin as President the US was anti-Slav and was not terribly interested in Russia as a potential ally. This came I think as a shock to Putin just as he was rising in the Yeltsin government. You are of course correct in understanding that Putin can have no interest in annexation of much of the old USSR because he simply cannot afford it, even if they peacefully requested it in a UN supervised plebiscite. Russia is a regional power, not a rising Second World. Nuclear weapons are an equalizer, and Russia has more of them than anyone other than the US and China. In Cold war days a “tactical nuclear weapon” was one that went off in Germany: if one went off anywhere else, it was likely to invite retaliation at, in Eisenhower’s words, “a time and place of our own choosing.” Truman had been even more direct in the Tehran crisis. Russia has never forgotten that. NATO still threatens nuclear retaliation at a time and place of our – the President of the United States’ – pleasure. No one else realistically can do that so long as the United States is in the game. The French force de frappe isn’t that kind of force, and neither is the British residual. It is an interesting game, and one that Europe has played since the Lechfeld. It is also a game that the United States thrived by staying out of. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
What ramblings are you referencing now Patrick? A history lesson from a science fiction writer. I am honoured to be in such company as my own opinion must be every bit as credible. If not more so seeing as I've never written any made up claptrap. I am enjoying this topic more than motorcycles could have me believe. You know, I've an idea based on Pourelle's ramblings, if I'm getting him right. Why doesn't your bastardised nation of people clear off back to where its citizens roots originated from and let the indigenous population of Indian's have back their land. In fact why don't we all clear off back to where we belong. There's a thought. I might have an arm in Norway. Another in Sweden. A leg in France. Maybe my brain's Muslim and my dick Roman. Oh what a freekin gene pool. Beam me up Scotty! Rocket in England | ||
| Kenm123t |
LOL Rocket We did rid ourselves of barbarian bastards! We sent them back to England! I am mostly native American With some Vikings on dads side! I have followed this thread listening to all points of the Ukrainian Issue and I agree with some of your points as well as some of Reins Sifo Etc. Central Europe has been a mess for centuries. Clinton's Joint defense treaty with the Ukraine bring another complication Putin wouldn't be as aggressive if the Ukraine had retained their Nukes. I fully expect our Current admin to screw up any Foreign policy decision. Now about your insults of America Its uncalled for and just plain mean. So go Molest sheep and goats with your NEW Muslim Majority Oh you may understand this Better PISS OFF! | ||
| Aesquire |
rocket, a "science fiction writer" who is also a strategic arms expert, and I mean policy making. I'm no expert in biowarfare, I just know way more than you do, obviously, and I spent a few years building pharmaceutical equipment for major drug companies. I also spent a lot of time making gear for Whiskey distilleries, so I know what they use, but make no claim for any expertise in the actual making of the water of life. Pournelle OTOH KNOWS the players, and has been no fan of this Administrations actions. If you read instead of reacting, you might find some useful information. BTW, when I googled "brit poison gas incinerator" I got a few dozen pages about England's use of poison gas. Who's the Barbarians? Sure, it was after WW1 and a quick way to kill off Wog Tribesmen, a popular Brit pastime. Yet, somehow, I can avoid blaming you for actions blamed on one of the greatest leaders England has ever had. Magnanimous of me, eh? So I think you reacting badly to an article by a man who you might find much to agree with by slandering a nation is a bit childish. Was the notion that England, having abandoned the Empire, and presumably in decay may not survive the near future, what set you off? It is probably time for the US to give Brussels the responsibility for much of European Security, there being no real need for US forces to be involved. Germany, Britain, and France are economically capable of building their own military forces; they have huddled behind the shield of the United States of America long enough. They don’t furnish any addition to American security. And yes, of course we can make an exception for the mother country, provided that she survives the collapse of empire and the remaking of the island. Maybe there will always be an England even… I thought getting the American Cowboys out of European affairs was a desirable thing. I sure think it is. Or is it the idea that without the American War Machine holding off the Hordes the entire rickety structure of Social Democracies that is collapsing in the EU would fall like a rock? Or perhaps the concept that England & France & Germany might have to pay to defend their own is the problem. ( not like anyone else in the EU has a clue or chance of doing so ) Although, IIFC, the last time those 3 were the dominant powers in Europe, didn't one of them try to conquer everyone else? Of course, now that you have the Utopia of the EU, that could never happen again. But with Obama, all you have left to stop it, is Russia. | ||
| Cataract2 |
http://www.stonekettle.com/2014/06/absolutely-noth ing.html | ||
| Aesquire |
BTW, I admire some aspects of UK culture immensely. Dr. Who. Um. Hammer Films. Give me a minute. Fish & chips. A few things not so much, like George Bernard Shaw, Cromwell, and that Prince with the Wine powered car. His kids seem ok though.  | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Benny Hill!  | ||
| Aesquire |
Thank you! | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The problem is Ken, us barbarian bastards impregnated your bloodstream forever so you're as English as you are Viking and native American. I am unaware of my insults to America which is why I say "U.S. administration", or refer to a person directly. Obama, Psaki, Nuland, whoever. I'm not about generalising for the sake of insult. Nor do I point a finger or accuse America as if a nation's people are the subject of my comments unless I do purposely generalise. Like for example if I were to say American's are a patriotic bunch. I do love it when you tell me to PISS OFF. I'm a Yorkshireman. Watter offa duks bak  Rocket in England | ||
| Fredfast |
Piss off = I don't like what I'm hearing. It's not what I've been fed my whole ignorant life. | ||
| Reindog |
I do love it when you tell me to PISS OFF. I'm a Yorkshireman. Watter offa duks bak Well blorted! I was about to post that you are a Yorkshireman and couldn't help it, but I erased it in the spirit of amity. Since you are well aware of the color of your feathers, PISS OFF.  | ||
| Aesquire |
Why doesn't your bastardised nation of people clear off back to where its citizens roots originated from and let the indigenous population of Indian's have back their land. Rocket, I'm pretty sure the Earlier Immigrants, ( Indians ) would agree that it would be better if all the new guys left them in peace. Perhaps the Celts would feel the same way. Or those darn Cro-Magnons....  | ||
| Pwnzor |
Four Yorkshire Men | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
rocket, a "science fiction writer" who is also a strategic arms expert, and I mean policy making. Yep he's definitely not biased then ................. I'm no expert in biowarfare, I just know way more than you do, obviously, and I spent a few years building pharmaceutical equipment for major drug companies. I know you're no expert. You didn't know the anthrax which killed your mates originated in America. I knew it did. You not knowing, yet you were pretty adamant it came from Putin's Russia. Seems building pharmaceutical equipment doesn't qualify you for anything. Much like being a toolmaker doesn't a mechanic make. ............... Pournelle OTOH KNOWS the players, and has been no fan of this Administrations actions. If you read instead of reacting, you might find some useful information. I did read thank you very much. I found I was reading an ancient history lesson through the eyes of one man. Hence my comments. I read damn everything posted in this topic. Do you? It surely doesn't seem so to me often. Whether he knows the players or not, and is no fan of the administration, I still felt like he was writing as most American's believe. That they are personally being attacked through the criticism of their administration. It stems in my opinion from a fierce patriotic belief. You might not like Obama but you love America. We criticise Obama and it's taken as if America has been wounded. That I didn't agree with his rambling I don't see where this is me slandering a nation. And you call me childish for doing so  Wonders never cease. And please spare me the history lesson about British barbarism. Ukraine is today. Iraq is today. Syria is today. The world is today. It's where I live and where my children live. My loved ones live. It's where you live. We all live. I couldn't give a flying f**k about the past in this context. I do believe I've covered this several times throughout this topic. Spare me the history lesson. ............. It is probably time for the US to give Brussels the responsibility for much of European Security, there being no real need for US forces to be involved. Germany, Britain, and France are economically capable of building their own military forces; they have huddled behind the shield of the United States of America long enough. They don’t furnish any addition to American security. And yes, of course we can make an exception for the mother country, provided that she survives the collapse of empire and the remaking of the island. Maybe there will always be an England even… What a pile of crap. Brussels is the last place European security should span from. Collectively they're a bunch of prima donnas sat in an ivory tower claiming thousands of Euro's in expenses every year. Their rule making is notoriously poor. Their economy making almost at breaking point the Euro may well collapse yet. You think these people are capable of making a secure Europe? As for huddled behind the shield of the U.S. it's an easy statement to make, but the reality is the U.S. creates problems it expects to be supported in by its European allies. In particular Britain, and Britain finds itself a major combatant in wars borne of U.S. politics and foreign policy. To say Britain doesn't furnish any addition to America's security shows the authors lack of knowledge on the subject. And he's a policy maker you say? .............. I thought getting the American Cowboys out of European affairs was a desirable thing. I sure think it is. I wouldn't put it like that. You might seeing as you're coming at this as an American whose main concern is to protect America's honour first and foremost. It being important your nation looks good even if the wrongdoing is from a not too popular president. ............... Or is it the idea that without the American War Machine holding off the Hordes the entire rickety structure of Social Democracies that is collapsing in the EU would fall like a rock? Without the American War Machine trampling all over Europe, and in particular Russia's western border, it might be a case of better business betwixt Russia and the European nations, and not just those in the EU. .................. Or perhaps the concept that England & France & Germany might have to pay to defend their own is the problem. ( not like anyone else in the EU has a clue or chance of doing so ) Although, IIFC, the last time those 3 were the dominant powers in Europe, didn't one of them try to conquer everyone else? Since when has America defended these countries? And please, for f**k sake do not mention the second f*king world war again. It's old hat. 70 year old hat. Get over it. We paid the debt in hard cash for sixty years. Move on. Nothing to see here. .................. Of course, now that you have the Utopia of the EU, that could never happen again. But with Obama, all you have left to stop it, is Russia. Oh spare me please. You're clutching at straws to get a point across which is just ridiculous. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
http://www.stonekettle.com/2014/06/absolutely-noth ing.html Thank you Cataract2. Brilliant info. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Rocket, I'm pretty sure the Earlier Immigrants, ( Indians ) would agree that it would be better if all the new guys left them in peace. Perhaps the Celts would feel the same way. Or those darn Cro-Magnons.... Pretty sure this is the point I made, and not so, exclusively to America. Rocket in England | ||
| Kenm123t |
LOL Rocket you miserable sod YOU DID'T EVEN DENY the sheep and goats! You don't deny that you took out your frustrations over Little Bo Peep on her sheep. I have a question about the health service over there. I have had few employees I picked up from City Electric. They said they were from the Midlands and Yorkshire. Based on their appearance did they really outlaw Dentistry in the UK ?  | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Ukraine maybe saved by the ADHD trends of this administration - looks like Iraq is back on Because they had a peaceful and stable transition..... I wonder if Obama will have Psaki blabber about it or if he has another community campaign organizer that should address the world on these important intelligence and international events. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Based on their appearance did they really outlaw Dentistry in the UK ? Yes almost. Treatment on the National Health Service has become a bean counting money saving endeavour like all things. Until a few years ago, those qualifying for dental work under the NHS receive a six month check up if they want it. This usually always results in a clean and polish. Not anymore. You get the descale clean but no toothpaste and polish. At best you get a beaker of water to rinse away the debris from inside your mouth. Well they have to fund the war somehow right, and every bit helps. Rocket in England | ||
| Trojan |
Based on their appearance did they really outlaw Dentistry in the UK ? hey that is a bit rich..I have visited Tennessee and I think that is also an oral health free zone (or Billy Bob teeth are a faashion statement in Knoxville!) | ||
| Hootowl |
http://www.stonekettle.com/2014/06/absolutely-noth ing.html Neat. A rant completely devoid of facts. Quite an accomplishment. | ||
| Aesquire |
Much like being a toolmaker doesn't a mechanic make. That is true. Since when has America defended these countries? And please, for f**k sake do not mention the second f*king world war again. It's old hat. 70 year old hat. Get over it. We paid the debt in hard cash for sixty years. Move on. Nothing to see here. No, I'm not going to try and call up ancient history like WW1. Which England probably could have won without the US. We brought rifles and men willing to fight. We had to use French and English airplanes, sine our few were no match in technology. ( WW1 was a brutal Darwinian thing for aircraft ) It probably would have taken another year and million casualties without US aid, but you had a good shot and the advantage in ocean transport. Verdun is a great example of how bad the Allied Generals were. Marching into machinegun fire..... still, a much better showing than the Iraqi Generals this week. WW2? Debt paid. Without England there'd have been no D-Day. Without America there'd have been no D-Day. England might have survived without the US, but not the rest of the hemisphere. No, when it comes to the situation for the LAST 70+ years, it sure hasn't been the fierce Belgian Tank Regiments or Italian Air Force that kept the Soviet Union from ruling Europe. As Pournelle said, the only nations with any military skills & power for the last 70+ years, are England, Germany, & France. France is only a threat if you send their Generals to a chalet well stocked with wine, cheese and food, with no communication, and let the Captains run things. Then they'd be badass! Germany was restricted by treaty ( a much fracking smarter one than Versailles ) In the end, the good guys on the planet with a clue how to fight and the will to, are the US, and England. Plus your other former colonies, Canada, Australia, and New Zealand. I think that's the whole list. | ||
| Sifo |
What would have happened in the cold war era had the US not challenged Russian power? Would Russia have simply been good neighbors and fair trade partners? No doubt some think they would have been. | ||
| Sifo |
BTW, the US is continually painted as being imperialistic. For some reason, I can't see much evidence of that in the recent world. All the places we fight, we release to the wild when the battles are won. That's not much of an argument for imperialism. It does seem to fit the definition of altruism though. Better than imperialism anyway. |
