| Author | Message | |||
     Crusty |
Harley won't honor a warranty because the rider was flying a flag: http://www.jsonline.com/business/motorcycle-enthus iast-claims-harley-voided-warranty-over-flags-b992 75797z1-260267341.html | |||
| Court |
Probably . . . regardless of how you feel about HD or flags . . a good call. | |||
| Blake |
Technically, maybe. PR wise, I don't see it. Harley's are so weak they can't even handle flag duty? HD used to be the company who would jump at the chance to support such riders. Victory ought to give the guy a bike, all expenses paid for life. | |||
| Sifo |
"Also, the flag mounts on Zien's bike are not Harley-Davidson products, according to the company."  | |||
| Court |
Blake: I agree 100%. Everything in the article, regarding the "flag drag" and the warranty question was accurate. This is the new culture at HD. But . . . if I, as a customer service person, would have heard about this guy and the 1,000,000 mile bike . . I'd have made the clutch happen. | |||
| Hughlysses |
"He has seven flags on his 2014 touring bike"- like somebody on another forum said, that's a hell of a drag on the power train over several thousand miles at high speed. I'm with Blake- they should have fixed the guy's bike. THEN they could have issued some sort of owner warning about mounting more than a flag or 2 on the bikes. | |||
| Spacecapsule1 |
...so if the flag mounts were indeed a Harley item, what then? Suddenly the flags defy physics and its ok to fly them? | |||
| Elsinore74 |
Never seen an H-D flag mount, but bet it has specific instructions as to number and size of flags to be used, and under what speeds/conditions (CYA). Gonna be a lot of flags on bikes this weekend. (Rolling Thunder in DC) | |||
| Ourdee |
Awe shucks, I can see it all real clear; 1. Corporate bean counting, That is the right call. 2. Legal, Yes, it is right. 3. Out-raged public, Oh HADES no! How can you do that to him? 4. Him, You can't tell me to not fly my flags! 5. Me, HD made right call. Warranty must have limits. If everyone is so upset, start a fund and buy him a clutch. My guess is that you've already bought him some stuff. And No one told him that he could not fly flags no matter how bad an eye sight or safety concern it is or strain on his machine. He is a politician! To sum it all up: He is a politician. | |||
| Bienhoabob |
After Dave Zien completed his million mile ride on the same Harley, Harley gave him a brand new Road Glide. (I think he totaled that bike with a deer encounter, and lost part of a leg). I ride with the Patriot Guard and we usually have everyone rolled up their flags and secure them at highway speeds. Not a clutch issue, but a safety concern. Big flags catching wind in a group ride spells disaster. Let the flags fly during slow funeral escorts. This seems like HD has created a PR nightmare. | |||
| Crusty |
It's O.K. to fly a flag on your Harley, just so long as you use a Official Licensed Product ™ Flag Holder. To quote the Corporate flack, "We have products designed specifically for that, and they won't negatively impact the motorcycle." In other words, as long as you are a good little consumer and spend all your money on our accessories, we'll punish you and void your warranty. | |||
| Chauly |
Is it just me, or is it more than a little ludicrous that the failure of a CLUTCH is being attributed to extra aerodynamic drag at highway speeds? Belt failure, wheel bearings, frame breakage I could see, but a clutch? Stupid call... | |||
| Hybridmomentspass |
crusty - the HD approved one probably states what size flag to fly - 3x5 is pretty freaking big to mount on a bike, the "approved" is likely much smaller they sell luggage for bikes, wont affect warranty - but I'll be youthat if you exceed their weight rating they would void a warranty. Thats how I see this, theirs doesnt void warranty as long as you stick to their recommended size etc also, the title (of the article) is very misleading. Its not cause he has AN American flag - dude is flying MULTIPLE flags, one happens to be the American flag. | |||
| Cyclonedon |
Folks, we're talking about a company that shut down the Buell Motorcycle Company without selling it for a profit and then turned around and sold MV Agusta back for practically nothing! Does anyone really think that Harley-Davidson is a very we'll run business? I'm just wondering how much this is going to cost the company with all their loyal flag waving customers especially with the timing of this. Memorial Day weekend. Idiots! | |||
| Sifo |
I'm having a really hard time accepting that aero drag is going to cause clutch failure any more than heading up over mountain passes will cause clutch failure. Once the clutch is locked up, shouldn't it be able to handle the full torque of the engine? In fact shouldn't the clutch be able to lock up under full power? The flags are going to have near zero impact starting off in first gear. Isn't that where you will get most of the clutch wear? Most likely, the clutch was defective, miss-adjusted, or simply abused, but the flag thing is nothing but an excuse. Piss poor public relations too. | |||
| Reindog |
Harley-Davidson is still manufacturing motorcycles? I thought they went under in 2009. | |||
| Natexlh1000 |
I would think the difference between 700 pound two wheel thing and a 1200 pound three wheel thing would be more than the difference between flags/no flags. They never upgraded the powertrain for the trikes, did they? Or are the trannies different? What specific part of his trike failed? | |||
| Mr_grumpy |
It's a tricky one, not very slickly handled I grant you, but where do you draw the line? Having put a new tranny in the guy's ride, you're then in the position of having set a precedent, & where do you stop? I can understand both positions, but the guy's an ex senator ffs, he should know how these things work. I'm sure if he'd been in touch with H-D before going public they could have worked out something mutually acceptable. Now they're never going to give him any benefit of the doubt as he'll forever be "That ******* with the flags that ******* us over." Bad communication on both sides in my view. | |||
| Court |
Grump: You nailed it. While doing this stuff for Buell I gave folks bikes who'd trashed their bikes at their own hand . . . I always had a reason. During the same period, I'd have no problem playing the "modifications void the warranty" (Don't hit me with the Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act dialogue . . I know it by heart) In the end . . . it comes down to two elements.
Harley-Davidson's actions, in the instant case, while defensible were, at best, poorly handled. I've got a rather large library of customer service reading, books, studies,reports and all my Buell case files and it's still an area that fascinates. Some companies "get it", others allow their collective corporate ego to become an enemy. Customer Service needs to be viewed from the perspective of what the CUSTOMER views as SERVICE . . . . it rarely is and folks are given things that have no value and provide no service nor increase loyalty. There have been some notable examples like the trick Ford pulled with the GT-40s . . . showing up at folks house with a transporter and a "pit crew" and doing the upgrades onsite. I had some memorable moments including the day I showed up at a Badwebbers door with a brand new bike and a factory technician. I gave him the new bike to take on vacation and we rebuilt his while he was away. Fun times . . . | |||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Court - the part about giving the guy a loaner is awesome. Third book should be those sorts of stories! | |||
| Court |
No . . no . . .some of my BEST Customer Service stories will likely never see the light of day. But . . . I did keep all the files from those early years. The best one . . . . that old time readers will recall . . . . was when Kim sent me an irate guy who'd called for Erik. I put him on the speaker phone . . . and listened carefully . . as 4 of the Buell Engineers sat around. We were sharing office space in the "temporary" trailer behind 2799 Buell Drive. The guy go through his spiel and asks "what da ya think?". My reply . . ."I think you're a F***ing idiot". DEAD SILENCE. Now that we are clear on your role in this . . . let's get it solved. We did and he wrote a very complimentary letter. I don't do bullshit. | |||
| Court |
An old excerpt . . .
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| Buelliedan |
I have seen a lot of passengers of the female persuasion riding on the back of touring Harleys that create a hell of a lot more drag than those flags would!! | |||
| Airbozo |
Court, Great stuff and I especially like the part about being honest. Not motorcycle related, but a similar story regarding some very expensive CPU's from Intel. My warehouse guy dropped 2 very expensive CPU's ($5k+ each at the time) on the floor and de-laminated the circuit board. Called intel, and basically had the same conversation where they told me to fire my warehouse guy, but they would be sending replacements out asap. HD could have done something similar to this guy, stating that the repairs were being refused under warranty, but will be taken care of by the marketing department (so as not to set a precedence) and then stipulate on the repair form that the next time he is on his own. The story I read on this had an anti-flag bend on it and sounded horrible. | |||
| Wolfridgerider |
I love those kind of stories Court! That is the job I want! Making people happy! There was nothing better (when I made a living as a carpenter) to have a homeowner smile from ear to ear when they saw what we had built for them. I get the same feeling teaching people to ride motorcycles. They look like a deer caught in the headlights in the morning and can't believe they can ride by the end of the weekend. Now if I could just do that full time and make enough to pay the bills..... | |||
| Court |
>>>Great stuff and I especially like the part about being honest. Like, love or hate Erik Buell . . . . I've known him longer than anyone here and his total and complete honesty is above reproach. I knew, during all the years I was doing the customer service element, that as long as I was truthful and honest . . . I could count on Erik to back me up . . . .even if, in retrospect I'd made a stupid or costly mistake. Erik was more concerned with me having the authority to delivered a solution and our unwritten "rules" for what required me to get approval were pretty much . . "be honest and make sure the customer is satisfied." At the risk of digging into the remaining 40 cases of Buell documents . . . he's a sample of the type of stuff that, in years gone by, went back and forth between Erik and I. The writing in red is not Erik's words . . but my comments, on the document I sent to HD, to Erik.
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| Court |
Readers will have a rare glimpse at why some of the folks at HD would have liked to have taken out a hit on Erik and I. | |||
| Chauly |
Mark, I know the feeling. 21st year, now... | |||
| Reepicheep |
That buykawasaki site was very good... I always get a chuckle out of people sending out surveys who you will know will ignore whatever you say that doesn't agree with the plan they already have... | |||
| Airbozo |
Funny, but I struggle with the "honesty" issue where I work now. By nature I am open and honest, but it has caused issues in my job, because honesty can be seen as costly. What people don't see is the loyalty of a customer who may have had something done bad, but respects when you own up to it and make it right even if it costs the sales person a commission. Hell, the first year I was here I had to walk into the CFO's office and admit a costly mistake. Everyone in the company heard her scream: "Oh my GOD someone took responsibility for a mistake!" I was her favorite employee after that. Keep the stories coming Court! |
Customer Service excerpt