| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
Funny thing, and I can't be the only one that noticed this, but this thread stayed away from R vs. D up until FrankFred started up. R vs. D is very off topic for this thread. He may not be able to understand that. Probably why he doesn't understand that he is voting for the things that he complains about in big government. He certainly doesn't understand limited government as described by the Constitution. Sad. | ||
| Reindog |
If you want smaller government, you have to divide the country. Not a bad idea eh? It is a GREAT idea and it is called fifty separate state laboratories bound by a relatively small Federal government. It is the fundamental basis of the Constitution of the United States of America. Sounds like you are finally learning. Hang in there as you will make a great Conservative someday. | ||
| Fredfast |
Wow Mad Dog. Your attempts to ignore me have been futile. You don't even practice what you preach. I bet you're a closet democrat. | ||
| Sifo |
I'd rather be represented by a working conservative neighbor (not Tea Party) than a wealthy liberal. Speaking of hypocrisy, you have repeatedly said that labels are a tool of a small mind. I don't agree, but that's your philosophy. In my philosophy, it's at least important to have some clue about the labels that you use though. You have consistently demonstrated a clear ignorance of the Tea Party that you would want no part of in your governance. Sad. | ||
| Reindog |
You are a tenacious little monkey (from Seinfeld). I'll give you that. The only real beef I have with you is that you are dishonest. Your insistence on returning leaves one with no choice but to occasionally respond to the FastFollies. | ||
| Macbuell |
The first shoe of many to drop? I knew this would be coming. They will, as quietly as possible, try to arrest and prosecute all the militia members that showed up to support Bundy. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/05/09/fbi-inv estigating-bundy-ranch-showdown-clark-county-sheri ff-officials-say/ Clark County sheriff's officials say they've been interviewed by the FBI as part of an investigation into armed supporters of Nevada rancher Cliven Bundy. Assistant Sheriff Joe Lombardo told KLAS-TV that federal agents have opened an investigation into the conduct of supporters of Bundy who reportedly pointed guns at officers during a standoff at his ranch April 12. | ||
| Rick_a |
So only they get to do that... Not very sporting... | ||
| Bob_thompson |
rick_a: "So only they get to do that... Not very sporting.." Agreed. AND from my perspective it sure seems like the feds have all the ammo.....stockpiled somewhere. But I'm patiently waiting for a conservative congress in November and a conservative president in 2016 and all that ammo to come back on the market. Still, no matter what happens politically, the "people" WILL have the final say, through careful voting or out and out revolution. "The times they are a changin'" Keep your powder dry all. Bob | ||
| Elsinore74 |
FBI investigations of Bundy's supporters will be conducted concurrent with IRS scrutiny, no doubt. Records of all internet activity and communications from an arbitrary date prior to the standoff have already been collected. All investigations will find "suspicious activity" warranting further (more costly to defend against)investigation. Vague reports/innuendo will be leaked to the media when it's deemed appropriate. Like maybe just on the eve of "Waco II, the sequel." I'd advise them to seek cover when the Al Jazeera TV van pulls up the driveway.... | ||
| Hootowl |
I hate to rain on your parade, but what exactly did you think was going to happen? They pointed guns at the police. The police are going to respond. They HAVE to respond. Yes, I know they aren't "police", but federal agents have police powers. I'm sure there's a law against pointing a gun at a federal agent in the performance of his or her duties. I don't agree with that the feds did there, but come on guys, you had to have known that an investigation would ensue. They will find, or attempt to find, the folks who broke the law by threatening a federal agent with a gun, and arrest them on that charge. You only get to point guns at the government when the revolution comes. If you do it before that, expect to get arrested afterwards. | ||
| Elsinore74 |
Nobody here would argue that threatening a LEO while in the performance of their duties isn't a criminal act. Hard to imagine why the feds didn't charge and arrest the alleged offenders on the scene. From all accounts, they weren't shy about the use of force. Video capability in the hands of the civilians no doubt figured large in the decision of the command authority. | ||
| Sifo |
I'm not the least bit surprised they are trying to identify and arrest these folks. That is to be expected. None of that makes what the feds did right though. Might doesn't make right. I also have very mixed feelings about those who pointed guns at the feds. I'm kind of surprised it didn't escalate into a hot shooting battle at that point. I do however have a lot of respect for those willing to risk everything for what is right. At some point that becomes necessary. This wasn't done until they had tried to stop the feds with lesser means. Bottom line is that this has been escalating for many years now, not just at the Bundy ranch. It's the feds that keep grabbing more and more control. There will be the proverbial straw that breaks the back of the proverbial camel. It was very close at the Bundy ranch. It may actually happen while trying to give these folks their smack down. It will eventually happen if the feds keep pushing (which they will). I guess then we will all get to point our guns. Keep your powder dry. | ||
| Sifo |
Hard to imagine why the feds didn't charge and arrest the alleged offenders on the scene. From all accounts, they weren't shy about the use of force. They weren't shy about using force on unarmed people. Some who were elderly, women, pregnant, etc. I saw no use of force against anyone armed. That may have been due to choices by both sides, I don't really know. It was after that, that they went to the facility where the cattle were being held and had the stand off with a heavy display of arms. This is in response to the feds going far beyond what they were allowed by the court order they had BTW. It seems perfectly reasonable for people to defend themselves from a tyrannical government when it is overstepping it's bounds. And no, I don't think the feds will take that lightly. Keep your powder dry. | ||
| Ulyranger |
Hoot, one of the big problems is many of these Fed agencies are regulatory (or administrative) in nature, not primarily enforcement, BLM included. So the big ramp up over the last couple of decades has produced multitudes of Special Agents roving around with "policing powers" working for bureaucrats with zero policing experience in agencies with no background in same. It's crazy when you realize that the Dept of Education has a warrant squad with special tactics training kicking down doors on "no knock" warrants in California for what amounts to civil penalties. Many of these regulatory agencies need to give up the badges & guns, get on with their intended purposes and let the real enforcement agencies (like the FBI, SS, etc..) handle the "police" work as they are better suited for it. Practically every Fed agency now has Special Agents and that is not serving the original purpose of their founding..... This isn't tin foil hat stuff, the Feds have legitimate enforcement work to do, it's just my opinion as a nation we really need to assess how they perform it. We certainly are not well served having tens of thousands Special Agents wearing two or three dozen different patches, each with different training requirements and SOPs playing cop all over the hinterlands, all overseen by bureaucrats who can't spell law with a dictionary and spell check....... | ||
| Court |
>>>the Feds have legitimate enforcement work to do Yeah . . . but the garbage man?
| ||
| Kenm123t |
ROFL Fred now we know why the derangement you suffer from issues from! Its ok you can go back safely to your closet you'll be happier. Never mind liberals are never happy miserable is a liberals natural state.  | ||
| Sifo |
I know no details of this issue in UT, but it will be interesting to see where this leads. One thing from the article that really jumped out at me...
I had a wonderful night out last night with some friends I haven't seen for months. The wife of this couple is quite a deep thinker, well educated and well read. I asked her if she has kept up with the Bundy situation and if she had any opinions on the matter. She answered with a list of things where both sides had points for and against them, pretty much right down the line of what you would expect trying to follow this story in the media. Mostly feeling that Bundy shared the bulk of the guilt for grazing without paying his fees. Once she had finished, I pointed out that her facts of the situation are right in line with my understanding. Then I started to fill in the facts of how this situation came to be over recent decades, and how it affected 52 other ranchers in the area. This information totally transformed here opinion of the situation. Then I explained in some detail my families experience with the NPS. This got her visibly agitated with the realization that this is far from a one off thing, but happens to real people who are little more than food for the government wood chipper. Then I explained the experience of the folks that were tossed off their land just a few miles from my place, to have it sold at great profit to a developer. When I mentioned the name of the resort, The Homestead... "OMG, we've stayed there!" By this point, her hubby has started listening in closely to our conversation and points out that they know another family that went through a similar government land grab. At this point it was very plain to see that her eyes had been opened to a facet of our government that she had never wanted to see. This topic came up again later back at their place over a few more drinks. To say that her view on the Cliven Bundy situation had changed is a bit of an understatement. It's wonderful to see someone who can take in new information and adjust their view based on that. It's one of the things that I really love about this couple. On a side note, it was her husband that helped me open my eyes to reality back it the Reagan/Carter election. He was a raving Carter supporter back then. He's a big man that can admit that he had his head planted firmly up his ass back then. It's a great thing when people learn to think. Some days I think there may be hope. If you made it this far, thanks for listening. | ||
| Fb1 |
...real people who are little more than food for the government wood chipper. Nice wordsmithery. Fargo comes to mind... It's wonderful to see someone who can take in new information and adjust their view based on that. Folks like that seem rare these days, especially on the internet. It's a great thing when people learn to think. Some days I think there may be hope. It's AWESOME to turn on someone's light bulb. It's depressing to know that folks like you, me, Reindog, City to name a few, are up against Pravda on 'roids, I mean The White House 24/7 Press Agency, I mean ABC, NBC, MSNBC, CBS, CNN, and PBS (oh, almost forgot HuffPo, Slate, Salon, Vanity Fair, Cosmo, Ezra Klein, The View, Oprah, Media Matters and most of Congress). Ours is a tough row to hoe. At this point, if you (not YOU, the general you) are still an 0bama supporter, after all we've learned about him in the 80 years he's been in office (hey, only 50 more years to go!), you're hopeless, and you're my enemy. If you made it this far, thanks for listening. If you made it this far, thanks for listening.  | ||
| Ulyranger |
"Yeah . . . but the garbage man? " >>>>>> umm, no...... | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Tom (Sifo): "It's a great thing when people learn to think. Some days I think there may be hope." And: FB1: "It's AWESOME to turn on someone's light bulb." Its exactly why Obama got elected....twice. The non thinkers listened to all his BS (mostly fact now), and completely fell for most everything he said. All lies and all proven now as some of the hidden documents come out. The only truth he spoke was; to paraphrase: "I will radically change this nation forever".....and he has; all for the worse. Maybe we need a refresher course certificate on the American form of government before we let anybody vote. Or at least an I.Q. test with a minimum 10 to vote (sarcasm intended). BUT how in the world can we ever get rid of voters who just want freebies from Uncle Sam. SAD! | ||
| Hootowl |
@ulyranger. Yeah, I know. But until the revolution comes, pointing guns at federal agents will get you either shot or arrested. Or both. So it's no shock that the gun pointers are being rounded up. There's a movement afoot to disarm these administrative agencies. No telling whether it will gain traction. Probably not. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Jeff(Hootowl): "No telling whether it will gain traction. Probably not." I believe it will gain traction with a new administration in the White house in 2016 more favorable to a conservative way of thinking and less socialistic view and somewhat in November if the Republicans get control of the Senate to make Obama a lame duck president for the remaining two years of his term. | ||
| Hootowl |
Maybe. These agencies armed themselves when? Before the Obama administration, yes? It's been happening for years under dem and rep rule. It's going to take a sea change in politics. They view this as progress and don't have the desire to go 'backwards'. Maybe if the tea party has a majority in both houses and there's a republican in the write house. Maybe. But more than likely this will fade from the public consciousness and more immediate issues will occupy the airwaves. | ||
| Fredfast |
"But until the revolution comes" They were saying the same thing back in the sixties but it never came. Now just like then, things aren't bad enough, except maybe for you guys. | ||
| Court |
The good news is that . . . in the event of an administration change . . . the precedent has been set to pretty much do what ever the pres wants with the laws . . . by executive fiat. Time and tide . . . No president in history has been so universally unpopular . . could bode well for a change. | ||
| Garryb |
http://www.gallup.com/poll/116500/presidential-app roval-ratings-george-bush.aspx | ||
| Blake |
If the non-Fox media were attacking Obama the way they targeted Bush, he'd have been impeached already. | ||
| Court |
>>> If the non-Fox media were attacking Obama the way they targeted Bush, he'd have been impeached already. Likely true. During the time he did stupid and imcompent stuff Obama's ratings declined steadily since the day he entered office. But when he started lying and morphing laws based on his whims things got worse. As gary pointed our Bush had a similar trend but based soley on unpopular (no one likes war) actions. Facts is that only about 3 or 4 in 10 folks support the current administration. The could have survived stupid, dishonest is going to be a challenge. They . . . and some of their silliness will be history soon enough . . . http://www.gallup.com/poll/166727/obama-job-approv al-declined-steadily-throughout-2013.aspx | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Court: "No president in history has been so universally unpopular . . could bode well for a change." Yes, and most of the time after two consecutive terms for a president there has almost always been a swing from one party to the other for that office. The folks went to a Republican house in the 2010 mid-term elections and it could happen in the Senate this November. We know Obama is through, in more ways the one, and if the House remains Republican and they take control of the Senate, then the folks choose a Republican president, or maybe even a Tea party candidate the country will surely have a profound change in direction. "We the people" still have a lot to say for how the country runs and why I cannot stress enough; get educated with whats happening, research your chosen candidates and surely, VOTE WISELY in these upcoming elections. WE do still have control! | ||
| Court |
>>>WE do still have control! That's important. More important is that folks get informed. There is a great deal of chicanery underway in Washington. The scary part is that MOST folk . . and unfortunately it's really MOST as in over 50% . . . can't tell you the name of the VP or the Secretary of State. They wouldn't recognize Pelosi or Boehner if they say a photo of them. It's become clear how Obama . . .dangling the free stuff before all these lemmings . . caught us sleeping. |
