| Author | Message | ||
     Just_ziptab |
Simply impossible to get 220 grain/.30 caliber bullets locally. Neart a buck each on-line if you can even find them. I guess these are working really good,even without lube.I'm going to try this as a buddy has the gun/oven.I'm also working on a different angle tho. My rate of twist is too fast for the big .50 with cast bullets and they keyhole. Every stinking on of them,even cast with pure Linotype.Hoping the powder coating will stiffen them up enuf to take a spin down the barrel,instead of stripping. Kind of pretty if nothing else.  | ||
| Greatlaker |
Sort of looks highly marketable to me. Just imagine women who would be into having bullets that match the red of their nail polish. Maybe you could stencil on artwork onto the bullet ends with skulls and crossbones or something. Personalized bullet artwork. Damn. Good idea. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Huh? The purpose of FMJ / plating is to prevent leading of the barrel. I don't know if the primary source of the leading is the explosion at the back of the bullet, or the friction (a function of the velocity) of the bullet on the barrel. I suspect it is both. But if lead is going to turn to goo and foul the barrel, wouldn't powder coat (basically a high temperature plastic coating) do the same thing? If you want a cheap thin plating, do electro plating with brass or copper. Not as resistant to fouling as a true FMJ, but better than raw lead (which has to be better than plastic). I would use electro plated rounds on .38 and .45 rounds (bigger and slower), but use FMJ for 9mm (smaller and faster). No way would I shoot a non jacketed rifle round out of any centerfire rifle (unless I planned to do a lot of cleaning after just a few shots). | ||
| Stirz007 |
Not raining on your parade, but the tensile strength of powdercoat isn't close to copper or brass - but - creative idea, and I'd be interested to see how your first few test fires go. It might just work... plus they ARE real purdy. | ||
| Oldog |
IIRC Teflon can be applied that way, consider that. I presume that you want to use the plastic as a lubricant.... | ||
| Sifo |
I don't know if the primary source of the leading is the explosion at the back of the bullet, or the friction (a function of the velocity) of the bullet on the barrel. I suspect it is both. Both are potential sources of leading. I don't think leading is the problem he's having though. I think the issue is stripping the bullets in the rifling. But if lead is going to turn to goo and foul the barrel, wouldn't powder coat (basically a high temperature plastic coating) do the same thing? Hard to say. Sabot rounds use plastic sabots to hold the bullet. They have very little friction and can go very fast with no fouling issues from what I've read. If the powder coat does foul the barrel though, what cleaners do you use to clean it out with? If you want a cheap thin plating, do electro plating with brass or copper. Not as resistant to fouling as a true FMJ, but better than raw lead (which has to be better than plastic). I would probably try this before powder coat, but I really don't know how much it would help with stripping the bullet. It's a pretty thing copper coat you get. Good to prevent fouling, but I don't think it will structurally enhance the slug at all. I'm not sure that powder coating would do any better though. The surest way to find out is to try it though. Please let us know how they perform. You could try some in safety orange as a poor man's tracer round!  | ||
| Just_ziptab |
I've shot cast bullets for years with no problems....rifle and handgun- 7 mm to .458 with no "I'll" never do that again" problems.It is overall messy and time consuming tho. Forums are showing all great results,except for a few accuracy issues....which is more than likely the gun/bullet/powder combination. Some commented: Up to 3,000 fps No fouling Shoots clean leaving only powder residue in the bore. Faster fps because they are slippier No smoke from burning cast bullet lube. 100 yard MOA Yes,I am after a coated bullet for the .50 that would be tougher than plain hard cast lead (1:15 twist is just too quick for 930 grain plain lead slugs). ....and cheaper bullets for just having fun with the .300 blackout. Forums have told me copper plate won't give me what I want and that the home brew plating is poor quality and messy/toxic. Some have used epoxy paint with good results but not even close to powder coating toughness. One guy torched a powder coated bullet and the lead melted away before the powder coating failed. The "wet coat" method bullets look like crap ..so I am not going that route. I will report back...later this Summer Along with bullets,powder is a ghost around here too....except for the non popular offerings  Hammer test looks pretty convincing to me...  | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Just_ziptab, any reason you could not use these, (below), when they come in stock at Midway, It says they are overdue so maybe soon and $.031 cents a piece does not seem bad for any shooting. Maybe too long for that short case? "www.midwayusa.com/product/698190/sierra-pro-hunter -bullets-30-caliber-308-diameter-220-grain-rou" (Message edited by Bob_thompson on March 31, 2014) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Interesting! Makes me think about what else you could coat with easily. Come to think about it, aren't some of the Russian rounds lacquer coated (not just the steel cases, the whole round)? I wonder if that would be easier then powder coat and do the same thing? | ||
| Reepicheep |
I've had pretty infuriating experiences with Midway and backorders, FWIW. I will avoid doing business with them in the future. I'm OK with backorder. I am OK with backorder status with no date (I probably won't order, but I won't be mad). But to put an item on backorder with a "back in stock date", then miss that date 4 or 5 times? Not the way to make me want to do business with you. Supplies are starting to show back up around here... good luck! (And you still have my brain cranking away on coatings... I wonder what that heat protection paste / spray stuff used to protect parts while welding would do? Its pretty impressive what it holds up against when welding...) | ||
| Aesquire |
My guess is the powder coat will foul like crazy. Guess. Let us know. Plated bullets are fine Federal Fusions are precision plated lead. Work great. Home brew? Not in my ( now gone given away ) rifle. Toxic fumes too. You could try moly coat on lead. It moly fouls worse than copper imho but might work. Play with the velocity. I'll check with my bud who loads for his .50. We are talking .50 BMG..... right? | ||
| Oldog |
You could try moly coat on lead. OOPS I was thinking of Berillium.. (Message edited by oldog on March 31, 2014) | ||
| Reepicheep |
I got some .38 HBWC's with some kind of mica and maybe graphite lube. Messy as heck to handle, but shot pretty clean. Oh hey, looking for information on that, I googled up this thread. Interesting that the color matters... I wonder if they have to add metal type "dies" to get some colors, and those add protection. http://www.taurusarmed.net/forums/bullet-casting-c ast-bullets/109890-lead-coatings-rule-no-more-lube .html | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Just_ziptab: "Yes,I am after a coated bullet for the .50" I just reread your post and have a question. If for a .50 cal. are you using it as a sabot slug and why would you use a more blunt nose bullet instead of a high ballistic coefficient bullet (pointed boat tail) for longer range use? Please explain your intended use. I have used 405g. hardcast moly coated bullets in my Sharps 45-70 replica at about 1800fps with outstanding results with absolutely no fouling or leading even with black powder but used a compound mix of black powder and a small amount (5 g.) of fast burning smokeless powder which keeps residue to a minimum. Please give us a little more info. I'm missing something here. | ||
| Sifo |
From Reepicheep's link...
That sounds a bit scary to me, but other reading is kind of interesting. That same thread had this link... http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/66713-powd er-coating-the-easy-way/ Good info for those thinking they may try this. I have to admit, it would be nice to not have the mess from lube in my guns. So what load data should be used? Lead bullet? FMJ? I would think that having a slicker surface, you would get higher speeds with lower chamber pressures, but without actual testing equipment, it's pretty hard to say for sure. | ||
| Blake |
Reep, Please don't fault Midway. It is surely their suppliers who fail to deliver when promised. I don't think there's a more honest man of integrity in the business than Larry Potterfield. He looks like he could be Court's cousin. Larry and his wife donate half of their Midway USA profits to charity. If there is any one place to do firearms related business, it's got to be Midway USA. If you've never done so, check out Larry's incredible collection of videos. He is a master gunsmith and has a gift for teaching. Just don't complain when it's difficult rising in the morning after staying up too late watching his videos. http://www.midwayusa.com/general.mvc/index/videoli brary Don't say I didn't warn you!  | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Bob,the Sierra would work fine, but shipping drives up the price and I am hearing that the stuff gets sold out before you can get your credit card entered.I've turned away from quite a few Midway items due to shipping...usually find the same item on eBay (cept powder/primers/bullets) for less money or free shipping. The quest is for three guns. .458 SOCOM, 485 grain cast loads .300 blackout, 230 grain cast loads .50 BMG semi-auto M2, 930 grain cast loads I have fair supply of jacketed bullets...just hate to waste them for now till supplies catch up and that may take years(?) 50 BMG rounds are hovering about four bucks a bang.Reloads with top components are $3.00 minimum. Nobody shoots cast in a 50 M2 and I was in uncharted territory when I started that quest a year ago.You simply don't go out and buy a 50 BMG bullet mold..it's custom made. I got the gas checks from ...no less....a dentist in Florida.Lyman Lubri-sizer?...nope,it's not a big enuf of a tool. My cast loads cycle the M2 action ,but all of them are "thrown/key hole". I can shoot cast loads nearly as cheap as small arms factory rounds....all the better if they don't keyhole Also have a 50BMG, 1,000yard bench/bolt gun...nothing but moly coated A-Max and Barns solids. Moly is very messy and time consuming to do it right,but the results are worth it in barrel life and accuracy. Neart a paper weight:  Comparo to ball boat tail and APIT  Custom 3 cavity mold  | ||
| Kenm123t |
Moly coating is the way to go just correct your reloads to account for the pressure difference Moly coating lets the bullets slide down the bore easier than other lubes. This means a lower peak pressure so you will need to increase your powder charge to keep the same velocity and sight setting. Proper load development should be done when ever you change any thing in your load chart. A properly broken in barrel will reduce fouling!   | ||
| Reepicheep |
It was a lee classic turret press, and after waiting months, I put an order for the same thing in with Cabellas. It was on my doorstep in 1 week. But mistakes happen, especially in corporations. I can forgive and forget. The press needs a little bit of tuning, but once you learn it's quirks it works really well for moderately paced reloading of various pistol cartridges. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Heck, for 50 cal, use a lathe and cut them from solid copper bar stock.  | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Yep,if I had a CNC lathe.....that would be the way to go. Not sure what bar stock would cost,but it would have to be bigger than 1/2 inch to get .510 bullets....so a lot of wasted material there.Leadloy is another option for thrasher barrels. Midway has been good to me for over 30 years of purchases....just the damned shipping is way to high in the last year or so and sometimes no choice in the matter. Good ole snail mail is fine with me for most purchases.....but they don't go that route...........but do have free shipping/ specials that I take them up on ...  | ||
| Sifo |
Not sure exactly what you've found regarding powder coating methods, but here's an update to the Tennessee Gun Owners thread I posted earlier. Basically they tumble them in a vibrating tumbler with the powder, then dump them on a screen and bake. Pretty simple procedure! Seems like running them through the sizer would be the most time consuming part. http://www.tngunowners.com/forums/topic/73808-powd er-coating-the-super-duper-easy-way/ Very interesting thread. BadWeB rocks for all kinds of stuff! | ||
| Stirz007 |
"that would be the way to go. Not sure what bar stock would cost,but it would have to be bigger than 1/2 inch to get .510 bullets" Machinable brass ($12/ft) would actually be less than machinable copper ($25/ft) if you went that route. (9/16" stock) | ||
| Just_ziptab |
$12.00/ft...wow! Barns .50 caliber 800 grain brass bore riders....plain and moly coated  (Message edited by just_ziptab on April 01, 2014) | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Very interesting thread. BadWeB rocks for all kinds of stuff! Yeah,that is what keeps the whole place hanging together since the demise of Buell and the entrance of EBR ....that is out of reach for most of us. The core knowledge of Buellers is pretty much like minded and it seems there is no subject that is unknown to someone here....as well as first person facts and photos.Can't help to think that we are the best people around. . . | ||
| Sifo |
So I have a friend who shoots 2-3 times a week who has been diagnosed with high lead values in his blood. I saw him at the range this AM and told him about this idea. Turns out he's been buying bullets lately from Precision Bullets. I don't see it on their website specifically, but it sure looks like their "unique dry-lube formula" is powder coat. Pricing doesn't look too bad either when you start buying in higher volumes. Looks like the list price includes shipping too. No hassling with figuring out what works and doesn't work, and no need to run them through a sizing die. Kind of sucks that I just ordered 3,500 bullets from my normal supplier. I still want to try these out though. | ||
| Sifo |
Some interesting info from the Precision Bullets FAQs... What is the coating on a Precision Bullet? We use a proprietary solid dry film lubricant. This is similar to the moly/poly coatings on the market but is much tougher. We bake the coating onto the bullets, then restrike the bullets in carbide dies after the coating is applied. Do I use reloading data for lead or jacketed bullets? Any reloading data for cast lead bullets will work for precision bullets. Can I use Precision Bullets in my 38 Super Open gun? NO—we don’t recommend our bullets for compensated guns. When the bullet passes through the compensator, the gases are diverted and will cut the base of the bullet causing way too much smoke and leading. Stick with JHP’s. Cleaning Your Bore Normal cleaning methods will work for our bullets, but sometimes the coating will stay in the barrel. If you cannot remove the coating with traditional cleaners—Shooter’s Choice, Breakfree, etc.—see methods below. The Lewis Lead Remover from Brownells works great on heavily fouled bores. Stainless steel barrels only 50/50 mixture of hydrogen peroxide and vinegar in a jar Make a hook out of a paper clip Remove barrel and lower into mixture with paper clip hook Soak for 20 minutes Remove barrel and wipe off excess with paper towel 1 pass with a bore brush 1 pass with a tight patch Flush out under sink with water Dry off, patch out, and oil Carbon steel barrels Take a “Chore Boy” stainless steel scrubbing pad Cut off a spiral portion from the pad Wrap around brass cleaning brush Apply Breakfree CLP—5 or 6 passes through the bore Patch out with favorite cleaner Dry the bore and oil There's more info too. Make of it all what you will. I'm interested. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Speaking of lead,there is a local that has hand cast absolutely MILLIONS of 45 ACP semi wad cutters for 60 years in his basement with nary any protection. He is 84 now and still controls the sales store at the local gun club.A little loopy,but .......................dayaaaaaam! | ||
| Sifo |
BTW, I've had very good experiences with Midway USA. Just placed an order today and they have free shipping on orders over $150.00 until April 5. I also got 100 Precision Bullets from my shooting buddy. I'll work up to a good powered load and see how it goes. My buddy is loading these for his .38 Super Automatic with pretty hot loads. Says they work great. I'll let y'all know how they work out for me in my 9mm. | ||
| Aesquire |
CNC Lathe? Kids nowadays.....  Screw machine does it just fine.. It is a bit tedious to make a large number of bullets in a regular metal lathe. Also if you are making copper bullets I suggest grooves to reduce the bearing surface. Look at current no lead bullets. For fun use Oilite oil impregnated bearing bronze. Leaves a smoke trail but is NOT a good thing in fire hazard areas. You can start brush fires. Very bad. You are running a gas check and that's good but even so I didn't think you wanted to push cast lead past 2000 fps or so???? Checking the intraweb shows some folks pushing hard lead with gas checks to 2700..... still..... I'd look at medium speed loads to see if that helps. (Message edited by aesquire on April 03, 2014) |
