| Author | Message | ||
     Ourdee |
Sifo, I consider any fee, gratuity, service charge, usury, tithe, or forking over of anything to the government a tax. But, I can say fee as long as we understand I'm thinking tax. That's only 3 head per ranch! That's not a fee. That's a notice that your industry has just been shut down in that entire area. Yep, they were fee-ed out of existence. When they outlaw bowling balls, only outlaws will have bowling balls. That is unless we are able to buy "fee stamps" to own one. Whatever is said, The Feds were wrong. | ||
| Oldog |
Thank You Reindog, well said, Come and get me harry | ||
| Cityxslicker |
you lost the NO Taxation without Representation 4 years ago. When the House and the Senate openly admit that they did not READ the bill, that has given new and broad sweeping powers to the IRS and placed a new tax burden on 'every' American - you should have known you were ••••••. And as the IRS is as capricious and malacious as who ever is at their reigns - you should have felt any freedom of business and wealth leave you with a big gut check America - you were sold out... years ago. Welcome to the Party; Komrade. to be fair - I am not a fan of TARP - never was. | ||
| Reindog |
City, I think I understand everything you are warning us about and I AM concerned. However, the American People tend not to be total dunces and do have the ability to correct this madness. I am watching, waiting, and hoping. Especially I hope I am correct. I haven't given up....yet. | ||
| Xbimmer |
Reid, who recently said the situation is “not over,” revealed on Thursday there is a federal task force being assembled to handle to the tense situation. I can believe that. We occasionally get flights of military rotorcraft over our house, usually USMC Blackhawks and/or Cobras headed east but once 10-12 Apaches flying fast and so low I could see the crews. Yesterday morning I heard choppers coming and by the time I got outside to look I caught view of at least six remaining passing over. They were making haste staggered formation and maybe 150 yards apart, looking rather ominous painted matte black with dark blue markings but that's it, no ID's. Didn't recognize the type but my first impression was DHS enroute to Mesquite. Might have been EC-175's.  This admin is going to go all out to quash this little rebellion. If they do and it gets nasty Harry's gonna have blood on his hands. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Those are command and control birds - meaning the people in them, are the head thinkers that like to start shiate; it is not a troop carrier, it is not an armed bird, hell it might not even be 'armored' carry on. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://therightscoop.com/this-clip-of-chris-hayes- vs-bundy-supporter-assemblywoman-michele-fiore-is- awesome/ A typical MSNBC establishment stooge shows his leftist lying true self. Any excuse for Big Government. Ok to shoot cows because, after all, they get killed anyway. Props the Assemblywoman for being way smarter than he is. | ||
| Sifo |
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| Sifo |
That interview posted by Aesquire is pretty misleading too. He keeps claiming that Bundy said he does not recognize the authority of the federal government. I'm not aware of Bundy ever saying this. He has said that the feds don't have authority to do some of the things that they have done. Does anyone really think the federal government has no limitations on it's authority? OK, that last part was rhetorical. We know there are many who think that way. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I'm getting into this thread late but have been reading all the posts and not much conclusion yet but have "my" own input. First: much of this has evolved for hundreds of years from when the United States first started acquiring land from Spain, France and other countries in the 1700's who had settlements in this country. The then government gave land grants to people willing to settle certain areas with some restrictions. It WAS federal land owned by the government but ceded to individuals. Much has changed since then with many different acts by congress. Now read this: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bureau_of_Land_Manage ment", to have a better understanding of Bundys plight. For my take, its called Bureau of Land "Management", not Bureau of Land Ownership. In the Clinton administration he created the Grand Staircase national park from BLM land, here in Utah, with a presidential stroke of the pen. Where have we heard that before! It put many ranchers, miners and recreational users out of business permanently due to "park" restrictions. This in the Wikipedia thread: "The combination of 1946 of the General Land Office and the Grazing Service into the new Bureau of Land Management was filled with ambiguity. In terms of bureaucracy, there has been a constant tension between the local district rangers, who have typically been oriented toward the mining and ranching interests, and the centralized leadership in Washington that follows presidential guidance. Since the Reagan years of the 1980s, Republicans have emphasized local control giving priority to grazing, mining and petroleum production, while Democrats have emphasized environmentalism." That seems to be a true statement from what I have seen so far. Now I believe some of the folks in BLM are good decent administrators who believe that they are merely "administrators" who advocate "multiple use" for the land since it really does belong to all the people WHO ARE THE GOVERNMENT, not the bureaucrats in D.C. I use the BLM and National forests all the time in my own recreational pursuits and am glad to abide by certain restrictions, but they are minimal to say the least. This administration is going crazy with its agenda of environmental control of all our lives and its trying to dominate our very use of land which is supposed to be all of ours in the first place. I'm concerned about a "hidden agenda" in these lying, deceiving bureaucrats!!! Vote smart in the upcoming elections and return this country to "WHO" should be working for us! Rant off. | ||
| Oldfartnbuell |
Bob Thompson Just a reminder, it is grand staircase national MONUMENT not park. there is a difference. Carry on. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I stand corrected Don(Oldfartnbuell), thanks, and again here from Wikipedia: full read: "http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Monument_%28 United_States%29" excerpt: "A National Monument in the United States is a protected area that is similar to a National Park except that the President of the United States can quickly declare an area of the United States to be a National Monument without the approval of Congress. National monuments receive less funding and afford fewer protections to wildlife than national parks. However, areas within and extending beyond national parks, monuments, and national forests can be part of wilderness areas, which have an even greater degree of protection than a national park would alone, although wilderness areas managed by the United States Forest Service and Bureau of Land Management often allow hunting[1] and grazing.[2]" "often allow hunting and grazing" And still can be declared such by a stroke of the pen and still at the whim of a very liberal agenda. | ||
| Sifo |
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| Daddio |
If I'm remembering correctly, Grand Staircase was 'declared' a National Monument to effectively cease the production of so-called 'clean coal,' that until then was mined in the area. That had the effect of causing such coal to be imported from Indonesia. "Utah State Officials were never in favor of National Monument status because it hampers their ability to gain revenue from resource extraction. The estimated value of energy and mineral resources in the monument is between $223 and $331 billion. In 1996 there were 89 valid leases to mine for oil and gas, two companies held a number of coal mining leases, and there were dozens of claims for other minerals (gold, silver, etc.) In the proclamation, Clinton ensured that “valid and existing rights” to explore and extract resources would be honored[4]. However, the BLM has ensured that any new development on the monument will undergo a much more thorough environmental review process. This prompted many leaseholders to pursuit land exchanges with the BLM. One high profile example is Andalex Corporation’s planned coalmine on the Kaiparowits plateau (the middle of the monument). The mine would have provided 2.5 million tons of coal a year, or approximately $1.4 billion over 30 years.[5] Two years after the area was declared a National Monument, Andalex sold its leases back to the BLM for $17 million, ending the possibility of a coal mine in the Grand Staircase-Escalante National Monument" source http://www2.coloradocollege.edu/dept/ev/faculty/he cox/Research/CPWebpage/issuespageEscalante.htm | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Thanks much Dave, a great example of the bureaucrats in D.C.,a very liberal president and environmental groups shutting down anything they deem not in their(the tree huggers) agenda. And in my view something that very well would have benefited Utah people and state income and quite possibly the whole nation of more conservative thinkers. Obama and his cronies are still trying their darnest to shut down coal, oil production and for us shooters, lead manufacturing plants as well as anything that does not fit their liberal base. Again folks, educate yourselves and VOTE WISELY in the next elections! | ||
| Sifo |
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/04/2 1/The-Eyes-of-the-BLM-are-on-Texas www.kfor.com/2014/04/20/oklahoma-militia-gears-up- to-fight-with-feds/ Interesting times to be sure. I heard a bit on the radio today where a lawyer involved in the Bundy case is claiming that they have documents showing that the BLM sold the grazing rights to the county back in 1989 (I think that was the year). That would make sense with Bundy's claim that he offered to pay the county the grazing fees. Also reports of cattle found in mass graves. Described as "mother cattle" used to replenish the herd. This after the reports of the bulls being shot in their pens. This is an execution of the ranch by the government. It really is disgusting! | ||
| Slaughter |
Judge Napolitano's last words on the Constitution and government-out-of-control. Worth a listen. Courtesy Breitbart. | ||
| Reindog |
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| Blake |
http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-Texas/2014/04/2 2/Exclusive-Greg-Abbott-to-BLM-Come-and-Take-It | ||
| Two_seasons |
Hope AG Abbott gets answers. But, with the tyranny we see coming out of DC, I expect little back and forth, but continued secrecy in all matters gov't. Seems to be the new norm in the rule of law! | ||
| Oldog |
what is the reason for the Texas land grab? I almost had to laugh a piece about all of the "militarized" federal agencys on fox paying attention were we? has any one seen the piece on the Shoshone rancher from NV that has been fighting the BLM over the same issues a Bundy for a while now ? | ||
| Sifo |
I'm not totally sure exactly what's at play in this. I'm guessing over recent decades, there are multiple factors involved.  There's one thing that I'm pretty sure isn't the main driving factor.  | ||
| Ducbsa |
A lefty friend sent me this: http://www.8newsnow.com/story/25301551/bundys-ance stral-rights-come-under-scrutiny Is this being reported/confirmed elsewhere? | ||
| Fredfast |
http://www.nbcnews.com/politics/politics-news/gop- scrambles-condemn-ranchers-remarks-race-n88556 And here is your Patriot. | ||
| Sifo |
Awwww... I thought FrankFred said goodbye to us all. Not to respond to Frank, but as long as he brought this up, I know Bundy is being painted as a racist. He may or may not be. That has nothing to do with what the government is doing to him. In fact, to even try to tie his views on this into what the government is doing to him would make the government's actions even worse. We already have the IRS being used to punish those who have an opinion that runs contrary to the current administration. Should we really start asking if Bundy is being punished for his racist views? That kind of has to follow if his views have anything to do with this. Of course, I really don't know if Bundy is even racist. He has merely pointed out that the black population has done incredibly poorly for themselves since being freed from slavery. The government pays them to be poor. That's just plain evil. For some reason the blacks have bought into this more than ANY other minority group. They pay for this more than ANY other minority group too, for many more generations than ANY other minority group. Unfortunately, it is up to them to see the light and start doing for themselves, rather than being reliant on the scraps offered by the government. Hispanics run a second to the blacks. They are also being lured down that rabbit hole of poverty. Hopefully they will recognize the folly of this choice and run from it. Time will tell. Is Bundy racist? I have no idea. I very well may be. Is he my hero? Nope, never was. Do I recognize that the government is overreaching in what they have done to him. Absolutely. That has nothing at all to do with any of his political/social views. | ||
| Aesquire |
Sifo if we hate him for the "right" reasons it's ok to murder him and his family in his "compound". Like the Branch Davidians it may he a plan to discredit & whip up some good old hate. I don't know or care diddle about Bundy. Other than he should have the same rights any citizen has. I do recall Waco. We were told they made meth. That David was raping the wives and children of his followers. That they had illegal machine guns. That they started the killing. I have heard from reliable. ....not his surviving few followers...... that the drug bit was a lie, that they were very anti drug. I have no knowledge of the other claims except that it was never properly proven in court about the weapons. My personal attitude on kiddie rape is that if guilty ..........go medieval. Nothing including the possibility of ongoing abuse justified the assault that killed almost all the besieged. I'm not happy about the means used to collect a tax by stealing property but I know there are legit legal ways to do so. The feds playing hostile occupying force is unacceptable. Period fracking dot. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Well,... He makes a lot of sense doesn't he? I mean... if you take away the race card from what he was trying to say ... "Any Man/human needs to keep busy to be productive in life stay out of trouble". I don't fault him for stating facts and such as he see's them. (or how he remembers them correct or not) He grew up in that era so... I most certainly give him a break. Or is referring to slavery from that time a taboo subject just like speaking about Jihad extremists from 9-11 are now? | ||
| Court |
>>>Awwww... I thought FrankFred said goodbye to us all. He did. In fact, he gave his solemn word . . . like "if you like your Doctor . . . Never mind . . obviously a contagious condition. I've not watched the video but if Bundy made any reference to race, I'd condemn the comments as well. But . . . making those comments doesn't mitigate the validity of his concerns over the feds' actions. I think Bundy was largely wrong. I think the feds, basically just trying to collect some piss ant grazing fees . . were light years "wronger" by arriving with sniper rifles, tanks, combat gear and so forth. It was an intentional attempt to escalate. The administration should, for their illegal actions and trampling of the due process provisions of the Constitution, be ashamed. They are rank amateurs. I see today that another of their number, an Acting Inspector General charged with investigating and uncovering fraud and corruption, has been placed in administrative leave (yep, you're continuing to pay him ala' Lois Lerner) after getting he hands caught in the very cookie jar he was "investigating". If Lerner is any indication, The White House (now refusing to release his e-mails) will promote him. Fred . . . you've wasted your time coming back while you have pine tar on you. Now . . . go. | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo if we hate him for the "right" reasons it's ok to murder him and his family in his "compound". No doubt that may just be in the works. BO has made far more blatantly racist comments in the past IMO. I still wouldn't strip him of his constitutional rights for that though. I do despise his view on race to the core. When he speaks on a different issue though, I evaluate that on what is said on that subject, not his views on race. Bottom line, if Bundy wasn't being overrun by the government, almost nobody in the world would know who he is or what is views on anything are. His views on race are irrelevant to what is being done. if you take away the race card from what he was trying to say ... And if you honestly do that, yes he makes a very valid point that in itself is not racist. It's entirely possible that is how the comment was meant. I've never met the man, I really have no idea. I give hims some benefit of the doubt though. | ||
| Blake |
I'm with Kira. http://youtu.be/n0zoee4k7yE |
