| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
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| Blake |
No distraction Brian. We're perfectly capable of taking in all the miserableness. I have a list. | ||
| Court |
That "First Amendment Area" photo is scary. Scarier yet is that we have an attorneys general and president who are clueless as to the meaning of the constitution. | ||
| Two_seasons |
So, when they mow us all down, who then will pay the 17T debt? Sure won't be the people that agree with this egregious act by our gov't. We elect them and we can take away their power too | ||
| Sifo |
Damn ballsy some of what is going on out there. I don't know where this will end up, but I doubt that it's over yet. I'm not convinced that Bundy is a saint in all of this, but he raises some very good points, and the government has been absolutely ham fisted and overreaching. Bundy Ranch vs. BLM. The Fat Lady Hasn’t Sung A few excerpts...
I don't believe for a minute that this is over. I do believe that the feds will wait for many of the protesters to go away. I do see this as an example of why we have the 2nd amendment. This is also an example of why you should not be limited to a 10 round magazine, or have a gun that's modified to have the magazine permanently attached to the weapon. This was a response to armed federal agents overstepping their bounds. Let the feds be the first to be limited to 10 rounds when they start shooting. Until then, it's insanity to blindly accept that the citizens should let themselves be disarmed. | ||
| Macbuell |
I hate to say it but there is no way the Feds allow this to stand ... the perception that a few PO'd citizens forced them to back down. They will come back in force and do what they want and take what they want. Unless they wait a long while for things to cool down, this can all end very badly. | ||
| Macbuell |
And Guess who will be leading the charge for the Feds ... the man trying to profit from it all. But Heller's Senate colleague, Senate Majority Leader Reid, D-Nev., told Reno-based KRNV: "It's not over. We can't have, in America, people that violate the law and just walk away from it. So it's not over." http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/04/15/not-ove r-feds-coy-over-next-move-in-nevada-rancher-stand- off/ | ||
| Nukeblue |
sounds like some info-wars stuff but hmmm http://freedomoutpost.com/2014/04/bundy-ranch-sieg e-test-government-see-far-citizens-will-permit-tyr anny/ | ||
| Court |
Keyser Söze | ||
| Slaughter |
I had an apology written to Sifo but didn't post it for whatever reason. Didn't realize he was talking about HIS property as in DEED to same property. Also, the Feds have not forgotten Ruby Ridge or Waco. They'll be back. | ||
| Sifo |
I had an apology written to Sifo... No apology needed. I figured it was just a misunderstanding of the term "our". I hate to say it but there is no way the Feds allow this to stand ... the perception that a few PO'd citizens forced them to back down. Wait until they start shooting citizens. Then you are going to have more that a few! The government was wrong taking possession of the cattle. Some of the issues are cloudy at best. Why is the land in the eastern states owned by the states, but the land in the western states almost entirely owned by the the feds (at least according to the feds)? I honestly not clear on that. It sounds like for many years this was handled by the state. Even putting jurisdiction aside, the fact that grazing fees were supposed to be used to help ranchers maintain the land for ranching, but in later years were used against the ranchers in favor of tortoises instead is BS. It's no coincidence that during this time all the other ranchers threw in the towel. | ||
| Mikexlr650 |
The outcome of these events may just be foreshadowing of the future of many "Mericans" over the next few years. | ||
| Reindog |
Ya think? The American People are increasingly becoming Enemies of the State in the eyes of the Federal Government. I thought USPS was going broke so why do they need ammo?????? US Postal Service Joins in Federal Ammo Purchases Tuesday, 15 Apr 2014 By Cheryl K. Chumley Add the U.S. Postal Service to the list of federal agencies seeking to purchase what some Second Amendment activists say are alarmingly large quantities of ammunition. Earlier this year, the USPS posted a notice on its website, under the heading "Assorted Small Arms Ammunition," that says: "The United States Postal Service intends to solicit proposals for assorted small arms ammunition. If your organization wishes to participate, you must pre-register. This message is only a notification of our intent to solicit proposals." Alan Gottlieb, chairman of the Washington-based Citizens Committee for the Right to Keep and Bear Arms, said: "We're seeing a highly unusual amount of ammunition being bought by the federal agencies over a fairly short period of time. To be honest, I don't understand why the federal government is buying so much at this time." Jake McGuigan, director of state affairs and government relations for the National Shooting Sports Foundation, said widely reported federal ammunition purchases have sparked conspiracy-type fears among gun owners, who worry that the federal government is trying to crack down on Second Amendment rights via the back door by limiting the ammo available to owners. It's not just the USPS that is stocking up on ammo. A little more than a year ago, the Social Security Administration put in a request for 174,000 rounds of ".357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow-point" bullets. Before that, it was the Department of Agriculture requesting 320,000 rounds. More recently, the Department of Homeland Security raised eyebrows with its request for 450 million rounds — at about the same time the FBI separately sought 100 million hollow-point rounds. The National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration also requested 46,000 rounds. Philip Van Cleave, president of the Virginia Citizens Defense League, asked: why exactly does a weather service need ammunition? "NOAA — really? They have a need? One just doesn't know why they're doing this," he said. "The problem is, all these agencies have their own SWAT teams, their own police departments, which is crazy. In theory, it was supposed to be the U.S. marshals that was the armed branch for the federal government." Armed federal employees are often assigned to offices of investigative services, the offices of inspectors general, or other equally bureaucratic agencies. For instance, regular Internal Revenue Service agents aren't equipped with on-the-job guns — but those affiliated with the agency's Criminal Investigations Division are. The same goes for workers with the U.S. Postal Inspection Service, with the Department of Agriculture's Office of Inspector General, and with the Department of Education's Office of Inspector General. The Energy Department, the Department of Health and Human Services, the Commerce Department, and the U.S. Agency for International Development are a few of the federal entities that boast an armed division, tasked with investigating fraud and suspected criminal activities. As such, the agents get to carry guns. "Most of these agencies do have their own police forces," said Jim Wallace, executive director of the Massachusetts-based Gun Owners' Action League. That, perhaps more than federal ammunition purchases, is the larger issue, he suggested, and Van Cleave agreed. "What's the need for that? Do we really need this? That was something our Founding Fathers did not like and we should all be concerned about," Van Cleave said, speaking of the expansion of police forces throughout all levels of government. The Department of Homeland Security employs in its various law enforcement entities — from the Coast Guard to the Secret Service to Customs and Border Protection — more than 200,000 workers, an estimated 135,000 of whom are authorized to carry weapons. When the agency makes its ammo buys, it often does so over the course of several years. "We realize that the House is still investigating the ammo purchases by the administration, but from what we've seen so far, most representatives don't seem alarmed," said Erich Pratt, communications director for Gun Owners of America. "For example, [Georgia Republican] Rep. Lynn Westmoreland said that given all the agencies that the Department of Homeland Security purchases for, "450 million rounds really is not that large of an order," Pratt said. McGuigan acknowledged that there was a scarcity of ammo but attributed it more to a rise in purchases by individuals. The Obama administration's stated desire to scale back gun rights drove more in the private sector to purchase firearms — which in turn fueled ammunition sales, McGuigan said. "Over the last few years, there's been a tremendous increase in gun ownership, [with] many more females," McGuigan said. "I think a lot of people need to be aware of what's happening, and what the federal agencies are doing. I don't think, though, they need to be overly concerned that there's not going to be any ammo left." But the notion of the Obama administration's using backdoor means to scale back gun ownership — a move that's hardly been kept secret — doesn't seem that outlandish to some. "I don't believe in conspiracy theories, but it doesn't make a whole lot of sense," Gottlieb said. "The amount of ammunition they're buying up far exceeds their needs. It far exceeds what they'll use — they'll never use it all." source: http://www.newsmax.com/Newsfront/USPS-ammo-purchas e-federal/2014/04/14/id/565541/ | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Gotta wonder how much of "that ammo"ends up in a personal/home stash? | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Could be an interesting week........This is good. Sheriff Mack http://benswann.com/exclusive-sources-inside-the-b lm-and-las-vegas-metro-say-feds-are-planning-a-rai d-on-bundy-home/ | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"So the fed govt declares that it now owns your home and that you must pay them to stay there. They are wrong to do so, have no valid authority to do so, so you rightly refuse. You continue paying the true owner of your home the rent due. " This is no different than what happens all the time - someone rents a space in a strip mall or business center whatever, owners change hands and now you pay the new person. Why is this different? Face it, he evaded taxes for two decades, he's no patriot, only idiots are idolizing this guy | ||
| Elsinore74 |
Whether Bundy's right or wrong, he will be made an example of. His family and supporters can't win this head-on again. Doubt if he wants to or can afford to lawyer-up enough to counter-attack and prevail. Even if he could, that siege would wear on for ages. Hope I'm wrong here, but I see no way this ends well. Sheriff Mack is mistaken if he believes female protesters at the front of the line will make the feds hesitant to fire. Ask Vicki Weaver. The next time around, long range options will be in play. More than half the defenders' problems will come from high ground (if available) and/or unseen. Expect gas, smoke, and overwhelming force. Expect only approved video to emerge from the event. (Message edited by Elsinore74 on April 16, 2014) | ||
| Rick_a |
For those that missed this little gem: I have a feeling the Bundy Ranch situation will not end well... | ||
| Slaughter |
Discussion on some of the MIS-information out there but a seriously good look at the ENN Solar/China/Reed connection about 11 min. Includes details on the redacted pages from the BLM website and caches and screen shots (nothing ever completely goes away from the internet) | ||
| Oldog |
This is no different than what happens all the time - someone rents a space in a strip mall or business center whatever, owners change hands and now you pay the new person. Why is this different? As I understand it Bundy and the BLM entered into an agreement decades ago on use and services the BLM failed to keep up its end[ breach of contract ] Bundy reportedly offered to pay to an escrow account if BLM would make up their end, they declined. The tortoise thing is a smoke screen, as is the money, The BLM is overreaching the precedent was set over decades, and the rumor / fact that there is a land deal driving it makes it worse, WE DO NOT WORK FOR WASHINGTON THEY WORK FOR US, some seem to have forgotten this. We are possibly about to see the federal government fire on its own citizens again this time for unjustifiable cause. A time is coming when the citizens will have to decide do they follow the founding fathers or allow the despicable excrement that is running amok in DC to do as it wishes things happen for a reason..... } | ||
| Sifo |
I have read that there are plans being made to raid the Bundy ranch. Not only will that move end badly, what would be the purpose? Further escalation of this serves no purpose other than to make an example of someone who simply stood up to the overreach of the government. At worst, Bundy is guilty of not paying grazing fees for years. The correct solution to that is to simply put a lien on his property. The government will get it's pay soon enough that way. They have no call for confiscation of his property though. That's what they did when they hauled off his cattle. They did this at gun point BTW. Bundy may not be a hero, but the government is showing itself to be a tyrant. I also saw a single news report on TV saying that there was a large dug up area with an unknown number of cattle buried there. I haven't seen confirmation of that yet. If true, that's destruction of Bundy's property, with an attempt to cover up the destruction. The BLM refused to say what they were doing with the backhoe that was hauled into the area. That much is on video tape. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
The aliens have been done with the cows for years... now they want the turtles... the cows are interfering with the process. We must appease the aliens. | ||
| Sifo |
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| Blake |
>>> This is no different than what happens all the time - someone rents a space in a strip mall or business center whatever, owners change hands and now you pay the new person. Why is this different? Breach of contract, and corrupt government officials stealing property for personal benefit. You've failed to perform due diligence and are ignorant of the key facts. The video posted by Slaughter explains it well. >>>Face it, he evaded taxes for two decades, he's no patriot, only idiots are idolizing this guy. Pretty much the exact opposite is true. They weren't taxes. He is the definition of patriot. People who take the time to understand the facts oppose the self-serving tyranny of Washington elites. Idiots and boot licking cowards, not so much. Be a patriot, oppose injustice, corruption, and tyranny. | ||
| Sifo |
I've also been trying to get a realistic grip on Harry Reid's involvement in all of this. From what I can tell, the ONLY mitigating factor for Reid is the fact that the site for the planned power plant is over 100 miles from Bundy's ranch. Bundy's ranch aside, Reid's deal reeks of dirty backroom deals. So are the Bundy's ranch and Reid's deal totally disconnected? If so, what was the sudden need to move these cattle? This has been a 20 year dispute on low simmer, and suddenly you have to send in sniper teams? That doesn't make any sense to me. What does make sense is that if you do have concern for the desert tortoise, you have to realize that a distance of 100-200 miles of their total habitat isn't a big deal. Looking at some issues of the Ivanpah solar plant (I gather this is an unrelated plant), they spent something like $50 million to relocate tortoises.
Bottom line is that if you are going to relocate them, you need a place to relocate them to. It seem likely that this could very well be why they suddenly have to remove these cattle. Reid is likely at the center of this coming to a head right now. I would welcome opposing views on this. Other reading I've done has brought out that the BLM, back in '93 decided to limit cattle grazing to only 150 head of cattle. It's no wonder that all the other ranches gave up. That isn't enough for a single rancher who's into it beyond a hobby sort of thing. It was basically the government telling the ranchers that you are no longer welcome doing what your family has done for over a century. This is another example of the government picking winners and losers. Mostly losers. Just because the government can to something "legally" (and I'm not totally sold on much of the legality of this), doesn't make it the right thing to do. | ||
| Oldog |
Other reading I've done has brought out that the BLM, back in '93 decided to limit cattle grazing to only 150 head of cattle. It's no wonder that all the other ranches gave up. That isn't enough for a single rancher who's into it beyond a hobby sort of thing. It was basically the government telling the ranchers that you are no longer welcome doing what your family has done for over a century. This is another example of the government picking winners and losers. Mostly losers. Just because the government can to something "legally" (and I'm not totally sold on much of the legality of this), doesn't make it the right thing to do. That is ok in their eyes its just some ranchers, But as we keep squeezing the farmers and ranchers with more and more rules, what happens to our food supply when we can't feed ourselves? The BLM issue is one facet of a many faceted problem with the federal government and its encroachment in to our lives the Bundy family is one of a few that are willing to take a stand.. } | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
I know Blake, Im such a bootlicker....flog off. Go support this guy, and do some security for him, maybe they'll take you first | ||
| Sifo |
Hybridmomentspass, I can understand not liking Bundy's position on this, but can you justify what the government has done. Responding to a civil infraction with snipers? Does that really sound reasonable? Anyone? | ||
| Aesquire |
Me no lawyer. Unfrozen cave man......sure. I'm not a fan of the usual tax protester using buzz words to justify not paying taxes. Don't know about Bundy and how righteous his case is. "Fair" or not you cannot refuse to pay taxes because you disagree with a law or policy. It sounds good on an emotional level in some cases..... but. A Republic's feedback is through the ballot. Not through refusing your obligations freely accepted. That turns your actions to an attempt at tyranny yourself as you impose your will on others. And I don't know if that applies here. In ANY case there are legal means to deal with tax offenders. Surrounding their house with snipers and tanks while you kill their animals should not be an acceptable pattern of behavior. Period fracking dot. | ||
| Gschuette |
Things like this make me scratch my head as to why the Libertarian movement isn't sweeping the nation. Look at the tanks the police forces have now. The military grade weaponry everywhere in preparation to use against the citizens. The NSA spying on everyone. The 100 mile zone in from our borders where the Supreme Court says our constitutional rights do not exist. The first amendment area here at the bundy situation. Reckless imminent domain case after reckless case. The police state isn't coming to America, it's here. I for one, am not a fan and I am really hoping the blowback arrives soon. I do have a small bit of reservation about the blowback because the media seems hell bent on villanizing wealth in this nation. Usually wealth disparity based revolutions lead to even bigger power hungry governments with more welfare crap. No thanks. Whatever, I'm really really really disillusioned with the whole system we have here. I'd love to keep the fruits of my labor and keep the spoils that come from it while subjecting myself to the risk that TRUE freedom entails. Between property tax, insurance, gas tax, vehicle tax, sales tax even on groceries, SS tax, medicare tax, permits, county permits, etc. I feel a bit short on freedom. Contrary to what every believer in the left/right paradigm says, freedom is actually free. It doesn't cost you a dime to leave me alone and it doesn't cost me anything to leave you alone. Give me voluntary interactions over government protectionism anyday.  So here's to true Mel Gibson at the end of Braveheart style freedom and not the processed big government IV drip of "freedom" we've been on since at least 2001. That's nearly 15 years and it's not working. Let's try some of the real, organic freedom. |
