| Author | Message | ||
     Aesquire |
I'm in general agreement Court....ah...but... No one has any business owning a military weapon... Like the .50 Gov. Sharps military surplus rifle my coworker uses to hunt woodchuck? ( overkill, sure, but fun ) IIRC it was made about 1871, could be wrong. Or the Browning A5 my father carried half the length of Korea as a Navy Corpsman attached to the Marines? ( 12 ga. auto loading shotgun, bought at the PX in Seoul.... because the N Koreans targeted medics and never signed the Geneva Convention ) Or the Springfield 1903 my uncle used to hunt deer with? Mil Surplus. WW1 & 2 military rifle. Or the heavy barrel AR clone I bought to hunt prairie dogs? I suppose the Trapdoor Springfield .45-70 I keep looking at at the store qualifies. It was standard issue to the troops 150 odd years ago. There's a saying the guys who work at Gander Mt. have. "If it's camo it's hunting, if it's black it's tactical" That is mostly about belts, bags, pants, etc. | ||
| Rick_a |
It takes someone with quite a bit of skill and technique to fire a true assault rifle effectively. The USMC doesn't even teach the use of the burst feature as it is seen as a waste of ammunition. Banning semi auto mag fed firearms due their use by killers is akin to banning purple Kool-Aid for the same. As I've said, may as well ban kitchen knives, baseball bats, tire irons, chainsaws, and axes for the same. They are more common, more accessible, and used more often. I personally feel the unconstitutional machine gun ban should be lifted. It takes a lot of skill, practice, and technique to shoot such a gun well, despite what your gun hating politician or news person may say. I may never own one, but there's no reason why a common, law abiding individual shouldn't be able to buy an overpriced rapid fire gun.
I agree. We can buy our own. The military can keep theirs. A lot of the stuff off the shelf at the local gun store is better than what most are issued as rifles and sidearms. | ||
| Puddlepirate |
No one has any business owning a military weapon... My Beretta M92A1 is a military weapon, as is my SIG 229, Mossberg 500, Rem 870, Rem 700P, etc. However, I have no need for a M-60, LAW, 105mm, MK38, etc. It takes someone with quite a bit of skill and technique to fire a true assault rifle effectively. The USMC doesn't even teach the use of the burst feature as it is seen as a waste of ammunition. That's because on the battlefield, shooting burst or full auto is a waste, except for suppressing fire. For CQB/CQC with the intent to kill a lot of people at close or medium ranges, I will take an auto or burst weapon over a semi any day of the week. Anybody else who has done CQB/CQC will tell you the same. (Message edited by puddlepirate on April 08, 2014) | ||
| Greatlaker |
http://csgv.org/blog/2013/adam-lanza-took-didnt-ta ke-sandy-hook-elementary/ "When Adam killed his sleeping, defenseless mother as she lay in bed, his choice of weapon was the Savage Mark II .22-caliber rifle, a bolt-action firearm that can accept a 10-round magazine. When it came time to travel to Sandy Hook to commit mass murder—and potentially expose himself to harm from responding law enforcement—Lanza discarded the Savage rifle and turned to the Bushmaster XM15-E2S, a semiautomatic rifle that he equipped with 30-round magazines so as to cut down on the number of times he would have to reload." "Name for me one weapon system (powder actuated or otherwise) that wasn't 'military-style' before it was 'hunting-style' Cooey Model 60 | ||
| Macbuell |
Hey ... a guy in Austin at SXSW killed 2 people and injured 23 others with his car. Lets ban cars as this was obviously the cars fault. | ||
| Aesquire |
Greatlaker. It seems your thesis is disproven. Modern suddenly available technology isn't the answer since it is not modern or suddenly available. Generations old. So that's not it. Pity since blaming the new stuff is a classical answer to "wtf now?" Twitter doesn't cause flash mobs. It sure makes them easier but there's a reason being caught with a mimeograph machine got you sent to death camps in the Soviet & Maoist states. There is more than one answer but how about the instant fame given these wretches by the newsies? For weeks 24-7 every hour these killers face is on tv. More than one copycat had actually stated in written/online rants they want that too. | ||
| Mtnmason |
Cooey Model 60 Sorry- the same operating mechanism employed by the Cooey was used to fight before it was used to hunt. It might be impossible to determine, but perhaps the first Neanderthal's spear stuck an animal before one ever pierced another caveman, but who knows? | ||
| Aesquire |
Ricka I agree with you in principle on machine gun legislation. As a practical matter I am ok with a permit for one. You can't drain the sea by moving buckets of water from one side of the beach to the other. You can't build a dike in mid ocean. Make your stand and reclaim more later I think. How about permits for machine guns ..permit for retail weapon sales under existing laws and everything else back to freedom? Build that dike drain it then reclaim more. ( you may need to be less ambitious ) | ||
| Sifo |
Greatlaker, you seem to be a pretty decent person, so I hope you will give this some serious consideration. Every so often, people on our side of the border also get their panties wadded up about high powered motorcycles too. I have no idea if this happen in Canada or not, but try to put yourself in the shoes of having people make these arguments. First, nobody needs a motorcycle with 180 HP. That's just ridiculous! Recently there was a push to ban certain characteristics of "race bikes" from the streets. It was roundly ridiculed right here on the Quick Board, and rightly so IMO. I recall one of the characteristics they wanted to ban was ergonomics that had the rider leaning over the gas tank. It didn't end there, but I don't remember all the details, so I'll throw out a few examples of my own that seem inline with what our gun laws wind up doing. Imagine banning clip on handle bars. Imagine banning spring loaded foot pegs that fold to allow a bike to go around a corner faster. Ridiculous? This is the kind of crap that winds up being pushed though. So imagine what will happen when such a ban actually gets put into law. The first thing you will see is the manufactures finding ways to work around the laws and still provide something resembling the motorcycles that people actually want. Tube handle bars will be tortured into configurations to mimic as best they can into clip on positioning, etc. Anyone used to riding a sport bike will laugh, cry, and shake their heads at what manufacturers wind up doing in an attempt to on the one hand, comply with the law, which they must do, and also provide bikes that people actually want to buy, which they also must do. The problem is that these workarounds wind up being complicated, expensive, heavy, and in many cases, even less safe. Now I need you to understand that me, being both and avid biker, and an avid shooter, I see these anti-bike laws exactly as I do anti-gun laws. California is well known for having it's own gun models that have absolutely stupid things built into them to comply with stupid laws. Pleas note, when I say "stupid" laws, I mean exactly that. These aren't laws that make guns any safer. These are laws that make guns more expensive, heavier, more complicated, and sometimes less safe. This comes from people with good intentions, but a serious lack of knowledge deciding that they know best. It's bad for guns, and it's bad for motorcycles. I would really like to hear your opinion on these parallels that I've drawn. At this point I have to think that you would be OK with banning clip on handle bars for motorcycles. In the name of safety of course. Cooey Model 60 Interesting. I can't say I was familiar with this rifle at all. From Wikipedia... "The Cooey Model 60 is a bolt action repeater that appeared in 1939-1940, capable of firing .22 short, long and long rifle. The Model 60 had a tubular magazine, capable of hold 11 to 15 rounds depending on the type of cartridges." Bolt action. Magazine fed. What exactly about this design sets it apart from bolt action, magazine fed designs that were designed as military weapons? I see nothing notable about this design that differences it from any number of military rifles. | ||
| Aesquire |
Sounds like a mini Mauser 1884. | ||
| Greatlaker |
Once again I find myself in a discussion on BadWeb and every statement I make is corrected or countered as being false because of semantics. Either i don't know how to communicate via a keyboard or some of you dudes just like to spew rhetorical crap because you have nothing better to do. Aesquire. Whatever point you feel you are trying to make about "modern weaponry" factually being ancient technology, you can have it. Your point is moot to me. I am getting the impression that some of you think I have an opinion on American gun laws. I don't. I have no opinion on American gun laws. I don't give a damn what you shoot or where you shoot or what the hell you do with your guns. I am a rifle owner myself. I used to go hunting with that Cooey rifle but have since crossed over to bow hunting. This whole thread started with the latest Fort Hood shooting. People were murdered and thats a bloody tragedy. As a father of three young children I was particularly hit hard by the shootings that occurred at Sandy Hook. If I was a parent who lost their child to a deranged individual on a killing spree I don't know what the hell I would do. I can't begin to imagine the anguish the parents of that crime feel. This recent Fort Hood shooting and the previous Fort Hood shooting and the mass murders at Newtonville and in Colorado, are all tragedies. Whether or not the guns were modern or ancient or held 30 bullets or a single bullet doesn't bloody matter. People died by the hand of another. There is nothing to critique about that fact. | ||
| Aesquire |
Agreed. The question is Why? It's not the tech. It may be the education or drugs or society or copycat because of instant fame........ or? The first part of your answer, mental problems is true. I was a bit dismissive of that because I thought it obvious. Sorry. In certain asian cultures it is common for a guy to rampage through the streets hacking at people with a knife. ( forget the term ) not too common in Ontario..... so there's a cultural or perhaps religious thing there. Doesn't happen here either. We didn't use to have this happen.........or at least it was very rare, like every 50 years. Now it's the crazy of the month. Wtf? Hunt deer? We need more hunters here the deer outnumber the people where I live. Hit one with my car Christmas eve and did 3k damage.... I ride slow at dusk. | ||
| Court |
>>>>I can't begin to imagine the anguish the parents of that crime feel. I can. | ||
| Greatlaker |
With the bow mostly I hunt turkey. I do an annual bow hunt in Newfoundland each fall where we go after moose. I haven't gone after deer in several years. I find the whole deer hunt thing a bit of a bore now. Deer are all over the place here in Ontario. More deer now than ever. | ||
| Greatlaker |
Care to elaborate Court? | ||
| Sifo |
Greatlaker, I'm saddened by the fact that when presented with a well reasoned comparison that you should be able to understand you simply dismiss it and bow out of the conversation. You clearly do have an opinion about our gun laws. You have stated that opinion. I must assume at this point that you would be just fine when the lawmakers decide that sport bikes must be banned. What else can I possibly think of you? Well I could think that you at too much of a chickenshit to respond to something that proves the folly of people creating laws out of ignorance. That would not be a nice view of you though, so I'll stick with the first one. | ||
| Greatlaker |
Sifo. I didn't bother responding to your earlier post because, quite honestly, I didn't think it was worth a response. As far as I know there is no pending legislation in Canada in regards to sport bikes or motorcycles. It's a non sequitur for me. To the best of my knowledge there is no pending legislation in Canada that affects the guns that I own or the firearms owned by friends of mine. So again, it's a non issue. Canadian gun laws are what they are. I legally own two rifles and I don't feel particularly threatened by either the provincial government or the federal government about my gun ownership. I am not a U.S. citizen so I really have no opinion on U.S. gun laws. This thread started off about the tragic death of more people at Fort Hood in a second homicidal ordeal. It seems unbelievable to me that there would be another shooting incident so soon after the last rampage that occurred. So what's your friggin beef Sifo??? | ||
| Sifo |
My beef is that you come here spouting your opinion which is clearly based upon ignorance. When that is clearly demonstrated, you take the typical liberal path claiming to have no opinion on that. If you have no opinion, that's fine and dandy. Keep your pie hole shut. If you voice your opinion, expect it to be challenged when it's based on ignorance and falsehoods. Just stop acting like you didn't ask for it in the first place by spouting your nonsense. | ||
| Rick_a |
The main issues are that in most all of these mass shooting instances there is a mental health professional that had recently seen the shooter and deemed them A okay. The matter concerns health care and mood altering medications more than anything else. The fact that these shootings also occur in areas where legal concealed carry is prohibited is also a concern. | ||
| Sifo |
I find it interesting that even after this second shooting incident at Ft. Hood, there are policy setters in the military that think it would be a mistake to allow the military to carry on base. I've seen it argued by military leaders that this would lead to too much confusion with too many guns being drawn and fired. While I'm not really that convinced of this line of reasoning, if we are going to apply it, wouldn't it make sense to disarm police when they are back at the cop shop? I see there was just a shooting at a cop shop and they seemed to be able to sort out who the bad guy was without any problems. Simply allowing carry on military bases won't mean that 100% will carry BTW. I bet pretty darned close to 100% of the cops were carrying when the nutter opened fire in their place of business though. http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-lapd-s tation-shooting-suspect-assault-weapons-20140408,0 ,7540830.story | ||
| Greatlaker |
Sifo. You will have to explain to me what ignorance and falsehoods I have stated on this thread. I would like you to list them for me one by one. I would like to remind you that I have an opinion and I am entitled to it. We should meet up some time. I think I would love to knock your teeth in bitch. | ||
| Greatlaker |
Sifo. I just looked at your profile. I just realized you were born in 1960. You are an old dude. Wouldn't be much of a contest me versus you. Never mind. Do you really drive a bus for a living? | ||
| Blake |
Posted by Greatlaker on Tuesday, April 08, 2014 - 11:09 pm: True character always shines through. Threatening physical violence over an internet discussion. It doesn't get much more despicable. Either recant and apologize (meaning actually make an apology versus merely saying "I apologize"), or take your leave. (Message edited by blake on April 08, 2014) | ||
| Rick_a |
Look out fellas, we've got a tough guy here  | ||
| Boltrider |
Haha! Well now, someone degenerated into an internet tough guy. One of the things I like about this place is the lack of keyboard thuggery. So please, Laker, don't go shitting in Badweb's front yard. (Message edited by boltrider on April 09, 2014) | ||
| Court |
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/marine-guard-sh ot-death-colleague-nc-base-23248039 | ||
| Sifo |
Greatlaker, You are entitled to an opinion. Others are entitled to point out when you have your head up your ass. On this, your head is up it's ass. You don't know what you are talking about, and refuse to even attempt to support your opinion, other than with physical violence. Very mature. Let me know when you want directions. | ||
| Court |
http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1750425#bmb=1 Let me guess ..... "Military style assault knife" | ||
| Greatlaker |
Sifo. Lets start over. Once again, what have I said that has offended you? Was it "modern assault weapon?" Sorry for getting hot with you. I get offended when I am told I am "ignorant", "chickenshit", or told to close my "pie hole". I have played a lot of hockey in my lifetime and generally when some little puke gets chirpy its time to drop the gloves and set things right. I should have read your profile first. If i had realized your age I would have reacted differently. If we ever do get to meet in the future I am going to give you a good friendly face wash, that's what you really deserve. Do you really drive a bus as your job? Or is that some sort of joke? | ||
| Aesquire |
Let's say there is a rabid dishonest anti-curling movement. You're a hobby curler not olympic class but you enjoy it. You found an internationally funded anti-curling org called "Curling control inc." That has now changed it's name to exploit a poor guy paralyzed in a curling incident. You write them and ask for their anti- activist stuff and they nicely send you a book on how to lie about curling and you notice a deep anti-Canadian bias in their literature. Now there is an increase in curling incidents and you wonder why. Some stubborn yank tells you it's because of assault stones. You explain there is no such thing. He continues for days blaming the new modern military stones no matter what facts you give him........ curling was of course invented as a way to cripple the horses of enemy cavalry when fighting on frozen lakes, right? All of his stuff is you see directly lifted from the anti-Canada propaganda and it's growing. MSNBC hires a brit anti Canadian to rant about how insane curlers are and how stupid Canadians are to put up with it............. Crazy, eh? Substitute shooting for curling. |
