| Author | Message | ||
     Mtnmason |
I will refrain from posting anymore about the conflict as it bears zero relevance to the topic at hand. Carry on. Spoke too soon. So waging war even in part to maintain the status quo of the African slave trade... Slavery was nowhere near worth fighting for and not why the South chose to secede. Imposed economic domination, slavery notwithstanding, is your answer there. (Side note: there is A LOT of slavery happening around the world in 2014 yet I haven't heard much about it setting off any wars.) There was no need for war Agreed. no egregious affronts to unalienable rights Not unless you can count being continuously robbed. no tyranny You obviously don't know the real Lincoln. Yes, Jefferson Davis and his greedy slaver comrades deserve to hang alongside the likes of the rest of the greedy inhuman warmongers of the world. If Davis was deserving of the gallows then Lincoln was even more so. Do you have any idea of the massive suffering and carnage wrought by the American Civil War.(?) Yes. I have read extensively (both perspectives) from a young age and am the progeny of folks who experienced it firsthand. the one started with the confederacy firing on the Union. The Federals in Texas had sense to know which way the wind blew (Lee was among them and narrowly escaped unscathed). The men stationed at Sumter were under the leadership of a bold but foolish officer. And if I remember correctly, that incident yielded a massive pile of bodies, didn't it? | ||
| Leftcoastal |
Excuse my intrusion and for adding to the original concept of this thread: "There has been a huge increase in rampage suicide in the last 40 years. Why?" The military apparently has "handled" the issue of post traumatic problems suffered by our soldiers by putting them on psychiatric medications such as anti-depressants and other powerful psychotropics. Then people all wonder "Oh - why did this happen?" Next time you see a anti-depressant commercial on TV, close your eyes and LISTEN. That helps you ignore all the pretty happy people in the nice countryside that are now doing just peachy. Drugs don't actually have "possible side effects" - those are actually ADDITIONAL effects of the drug, just not the ones they want you to buy it for. They so casually mention "...thoughts of suicide." The commercials don't mention "killing others, too" for some reason, though maybe they should. Probably not legally required to, as it is so hard to prove once the perpetrator has killed himself, or had the cops do it. So, It's not the guns, it's not "way his brain was wired" - it's not that the "patient came to us too late for us to help" (the psychiatrists ALWAYS say that!). It's the drugs they are putting them on in lieu of any knowledge of what's really happening in their lives or minds. THAT'S why. Meanwhile, the pharmaceutical industry is making multiple billions on this so-called medicine. The commercials should say "Ask you doctor if putting a large caliber sidearm to your head and pulling the trigger is right for you." OK, rant over. We now return you to the previously scheduled Civil War tutorial. | ||
| Rick_a |
He is clearly the victim of a high capacity semi-auto pistol with bad intentions.  | ||
| Aesquire |
Leftcoastal....  I don't think that's a complete answer, but it's a good partial one. Mentally unstable people + modern assault weaponry = lots of dead people The first part, duh! Mentally stable people don't rampage suicide. A bit obvious. The second? False on any examination. First, "Modern Assault Weaponry" is a scare label and a lie. There has not been a notable technical advance in weaponry other than laser sights, for a century. There hasn't been a hundred years of this kind of thing, so the tools the crazy people use, ( since THAT HAS NOT CHANGED ) is not a factor. ( yes we now have computer range adjustment & Ipod apps for ballistic calculation..... all things we had before, it just took longer to do the math, by a few seconds. None of which applies to a guy with a gun shooting people in a building ) I think you can do better than that if you apply yourself. Perhaps better understanding of Shell Shock would help. Treatment for those damaged by trauma really needs work, as Leftcoastal points out. Most of the rampage-suicides are not Service related though. This was not common in the past in our culture. What's the problem? Turning the mentally ill out on the streets to save money? Taboos on facing the problems of the mentally ill? | ||
| Ratbuell |
Leftcoastal - amen. I work through my head traumae on a daily basis. My accident was in 2008, and I still feel the effects every single day. Perhaps I'm lucky that I fight through this without medication. Perhaps I'm stubborn. Perhaps I'd be far more productive a person, if I didn't have this daily struggle. Wait. Strike that "perhaps" - I know I would. But, the fact of the matter is it CAN be done without medication. It is a harder road. A longer road. And MUCH more difficult - but I'll take it, anyday. I remember when they had me on meds in the hospital, both for pain management and for head trauma / mental stability...and I cannot put into words how happy I am, not to be on them anymore. Unfortunately, though, that is not the opinion of the medical profession at large - nor our society. "Make it easier - screw the side effects". Webster's should just delete the word "accountability" now...since society seems to have deleted the concept long ago. And that is a tragedy.} | ||
| Two_seasons |
Leftcoastal, right on brother! The commercials should say "Ask you doctor if putting a large caliber sidearm to your head and pulling the trigger is right for you." Ratbuell, I too have had brain trauma. Like you, I've chosen to do without the meds. Better for it. All meds have side effects. Each med potentially reacts differently in each body than it did in the clinical's bodies. And because every body has a different chem structure to another person, then mix the combi's of the meds, and the potential exists for extremes. | ||
| Blake |
Well said LCoastal, Why arent the journalists asking questions like "at what point do we ban these "medications" that induce mass murder and suicide?" Mtnmason, Let's start another topic for our Jefferson Davis / American Civil War discussion. I do see your point. It's a valuable discussion. | ||
| Aesquire |
I was born in Nebraska. That's where the slaves ran to. Next door in Missouri, and Kansas, things were not so mellow. See "The Outlaw Josey Wales" for a tiny hint of what went on. Ban the medications? they often help.... but the problem isn't just with Veterans, the children are on these meds too. I have no doubt that ADD, ADHD etc, exist, sorta. Most Human variation is on a bell curve, and the difference between bright, bored, and aware of too much....... and ADHD is partly in the mind of a tired and harassed teacher. There is no doubt that medicating the children into docility makes it easier to baby sit them. Nice robotic drones are so much easier to control. There's a LOT of money in these drugs, and the minor fact that Humans have varied biochemistry so what works for one is a disaster for another? The fact that being on a drug that, if you stop taking it, can cause serious side effects, including suicide, trance states, and as we have seen multiple times in schools, Massacres....... gives one pause. Or should. | ||
| Blake |
You echo my view on the issue. I'd likely have been deemed ADD as a child. Lame teachers suck. Good teachers are awesome. | ||
| Britchri10 |
The public school attended by my son tried to label him as ADD. He didn't have a disorder, he was bored. We managed to shoot that designation down in flames. He didn't need Adderall or any other "control" drug, he just needed to be more engaged. Roll on 7 years and he is a moderately successful student in an International Baccalaureate program at a local high school. I, too, would be diagnosed ADD these days. I never was, I was just a PITA & wanted to be challenged. There is obviously a place for pharmaceutical treatments in the overall scheme but, to me they seem to be incredibly over prescribed and largely unnecessary. YMMV. Chris C | ||
| Court |
http://www.amazon.com/Selling-Sickness-Pharmaceuti cal-Companies-Patients/dp/156025856X/ref=sr_1_1?ie =UTF8&qid=1396827758&sr=8-1&keywords=selling+sickn ess | ||
| Greatlaker |
Aesquire. I would classify "modern assault weaponry" as any modern manufactured hand gun or rifle that was initially developed with military intentions that was designed to be fired automatically or configured to fire automatically. As opposed to a weapon designed for sport hunting intentions. We can argue about semantics on BadWeb all day long if it makes you feel any better what "modern assault weaponry" is. The kids that got massacred at Sandy Hook were killed by what I would call "modern assault weaponry". If the weapon that day had been a single shot bolt action rifle its possible fewer children would have lost there lives in that horrible event. The caveat that makes "assault weaponry" of the past different from the "assault weaponry" of today is the pricing. Modern manufacturing techniques have made guns more affordable and accessible to everyone, including mentally disturbed people. Your words Aesquire.... "There has not been a notable technical advance in weaponry other than laser sights, for a century. There hasn't been a hundred years of this kind of thing, so the tools the crazy people use, ( since THAT HAS NOT CHANGED ) is not a factor." The Sandy Hook massacre was a massacre because of a crazy person and an affordably priced, machine manufactured 30 round, semi automatic "modern assault rifle." Affordable, semi automatic weapons with big clips ARE A FACTOR in the hands of crazy people. http://www.globalresearch.ca/mass-shootings-in-ame rica-a-historical-review/5355990 | ||
| Sifo |
I would classify "modern assault weaponry" as any modern manufactured hand gun or rifle that was initially developed with military intentions that was designed to be fired automatically or configured to fire automatically. OK.  | ||
| Xdigitalx |
A crazy person can make just about "ANYTHING" a factor. | ||
| Aesquire |
Greatlaker does not know the difference between a machine gun and a rifle? Modern? Affordable? How about more than 120 years old and more expensive than ever? The term "assault weapon" was made up to scare you. That is it's only meaning. You are supposed to react with fear and panic if you are ignorant. | ||
| Sifo |
Single shot. Can I have?  We can argue about semantics on BadWeb all day long if it makes you feel any better what "modern assault weaponry" is. We could. Politicians will. It's still all in violation of our Constitution. Few seem to care about that though. It would be helpful if those who are anti-guns had a clue what they were talking about. Details! | ||
| Rick_a |
That's plain ignorant. Throughout history bolt action rifles have put more people in the dirt than any other type of rifle. A couple World Wars and several smaller conflicts can attest to that. No measure of evil or sinister intent can be given to inanimate objects. It is the way it is used, not what it is that matters. My wife and kids enjoy shooting "military style weaponry" because they are accurate, pleasant, and easy to operate. There are other rifles that operate in a similar fashion, but a person's preference on guns has no bearing on their ownership, nor do the cosmetic features that the media and crooked politicians want banned. Everything was originally designed with military intentions. Nothing has furthered arms development more. ALL sporting actions owe their lineage to a military rifle of some sort, and many military weapons started as a sporting rifle first. My point is, that's a bunch of garbage. Some of the most deadly soldiers in history used a trusty, simple, bolt action rifle. One cannot blame the tool. We'll end up like other countries where scissors, kitchen knives, and airguns are controlled items. Ridiculous. It is said the shooter used a handgun. They are the least effective of all types of firearms, yet they will find some way to demonize it for some reason. The 80's and 90's saw a massive attempt to ban semi-automatic handguns just as they have been trying to do the same with long guns in the 90's to present. The result was the types of guns they were targeting becoming the most popular in America and the widespread proliferation of concealed carry laws. The same is happening with long guns. One wonders what the ultimate intent is of the anti push, or if they're just that stupid. AK-47's and AR-15's continue to sell in record numbers, and the more honest people buy them in fear of their government, the more people will be fighting to keep them. \rant off. | ||
| Aesquire |
Not semantics. Propaganda. After work I'll provide references. Or you could just Wikisearch the phrase. It was coined as a propaganda tool by an anti civil rights activist to mean anything you want to lie about. It MEANS LIE. seriously. As to facts. There is zero correlation between the technology and the incidence of rampage-suicides. There is very high correlation between no weapon zones and rampage-suicides. In almost every case the killer takes his own life instead of "going out in a blaze of glory" actually fighting armed men. In a notable exception to the "no gun zone" cases the coward suicided when he saw an armed Citizen pointing a gun at him but not shooting because he was unsure of the safety of a missed shot in a mall. There is a high correlation with psychotropic drugs. Prescription drugs. And.... a temporal correlation with trends in education. Double plus ungood. This is the truth these are facts. | ||
| Sifo |
Not really wanting to turn this into a debate on gun free zones, but it is worth noting how many of these sorts of incidents end in suicide at the first hint of a weapon that may shoot back. I wish I had some understanding of what they could possibly be thinking when they set out to commit these sorts of crimes. I don't think PTSD works as a common thread for most of these mass shootings. Perhaps this Fort Hood shooting, but perhaps not. It seems pretty clear that for most at least, there's something else going on. I can sort of understand a "suicide by cop" situation, but that doesn't fit most of these cases either. The simple suicide rate among our vets OTOH, I can certainly see being PTSD related. | ||
| Aesquire |
Yes I've noticed the "suicide by cop" and "rampage-suicide" cases are different. I would be interested to see a serious study on that but there are legal privacy issues. There is a reason some consider despair a sin. | ||
| Court |
Nah..... Not here (Message edited by Court on April 07, 2014) | ||
| Aesquire |
Court I gave away all my fire arms a year plus ago for Christmas. I still have a 14th century crossbow, an axe (11th century design a buddy forged from a Tower of London original with "can opener" back spike ) and some fencing foils. Pretty sure the remaining collection's going to be outlawed soon. At that point I'll be the most heavily armed on my block. | ||
| Blake |
Everyone moron who pushed for the implementation of gun free zones has blood on their hands. | ||
| Blake |
>>> I would classify "modern assault weaponry" as any modern manufactured hand gun or rifle that was initially developed with military intentions that was designed to be fired automatically or configured to fire automatically. As opposed to a weapon designed for sport hunting intentions. Devoid of facts, the wiser than others (in there own minds) leftists, worshipers of the state, make stuff up and then belittle those who might dare explain truth. | ||
| Greatlaker |
Rick A. What exactly makes we ignorant?? I am talking about the weaponry used in recent mass shootings, specifically Sandy Hook and the movie theatre shooting in Colorado. You are talking about bolt action rifles used in past wars. If you feel comfortable shooting AR15's with your wife and kids, congratulations. Blake. I don't even know what the hell your comment means. More rhetorical bull crap from you. What truth are you trying to explain? Please explain without resorting to using the words, tyranny, tyrannical, leftist, communist and fascist. Maybe it's your ADD, but you over use particular words and it just makes your comments nonsensical. Aesquire. How do you figure I don't know the difference between a machine gun and a rifle? I know exactly what the difference is. How is it possible that you can read what I have written so far out of context? The Sandy Hook weapon was a semi automatic Bushmaster AR15 with a 30 round clip. What is there to critique about that????? http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/newtown-massacre-bus hmaster-223/story?id=18000884 | ||
| Mtnmason |
...Bushmaster AR15 with a 30 round clip The ArmaliteRifle-15 platform doesn't take clips, brah. Name for me one weapon system (powder actuated or otherwise) that wasn't 'military-style' before it was 'hunting-style' - since you seem to be sssoooo knowledgeable. | ||
| Torquehd |
Greatlaker, the initial reports of the sandy hook shooting (within the first couple hours) stated that an "assault rifle" was used. according to later news coverage of the sandy hook shooting, the rifle never made it into the sandy hook school. it remained in the car while all the shooting via handgun was taking place inside. it really all depends on which news source you take your information from, as to what the real story is. of course, the whole thing reeks of BS, and i suspect that something much different from what was "reported" was what actually happened. | ||
| Aesquire |
Automatic weapon = machine gun. Machine guns are strictly limited in the US, require special permits, and many places forbid them totally for civilian owners. Oddly police are allowed them. Great to know the local Barney Fife can spray your village just like the movies, eh? The confusion and ignorance in the technology is a deliberate ploy by anti civil rights leftist liars. I will give you the benefit of doubt and assume you are simply parroting the lies you hear & read. . These designs are a century old. There have not been mass murder suicides in the late 19th through mid 20th centuries in any noticeable numbers in the US. The tools have been there the entire time. The notion that the tool acts on it's own or is responsible for the actions of the user is at the level of magic fearing primitive. Not until the leftist revolutionary second generation in the education system have we had these killings. The hippies of the 60's and radicals who support Stalin & co. Became teachers and spread the nihilistic philosophy of a dead god the regressive lies of collectivism and the abdication of personal responsibility to the Will of The Holy State. Simply. Every time more civil rights are restricted on arms ownership the murder and violent crime rate go up. Every time that situation reverses they go down. Fifty states gives us a huge experimental lab. This is why our system is set up that way. Bad decisions have consequences. See the mass migration away from the left leaning states as taxes rise and life is made more restrictive. Anti weapon laws in the US began and continue as racist slave owning politicians and their successors forbid weapons to their slaves. (A rational choice as armed men are not slaves long ) after the Civil War they then begin banning weapons for the former slaves. Ever wonder why the NRA is so hated by the Democrat Party? Because the NRA taught marksmanship in black churches so the former slaves could defend themselves from the action arm of the Democrat Party. The KKK. Hard to lynch a man when he can fight back. | ||
| Aesquire |
The lie that a technology developed and spread from the 19th century is modern and suddenly must be forbidden is very much the mantra of the anti freedom pro authoritarian aristocracy. It's still a lie no matter how often repeated. | ||
| Court |
The "assault weapon" thing was reported by MSNBC and they got slapped on the nose for "creating facts" when it was discovered there was no "military style assault weapon" involved. Eventually . . . and I say this as a person who was the victim of what stands as the largest drive by shooing in the USA (I still have 98 pieces of #4 shot from a Remington 1100 in me) you have to fix the people . . . . no amount of gun legislation will do a thing . . . nada, zero. I was shot with one of the old standards of hunting . . . the 12 gauge shotgun. Before the trial, the pistol I had jammed down my throat and the hammer pulled back was also NOT a "military style assault specials" but a S&W Chief's Special. Nothing that has occurred, in any of these mass shootings, would be a challenge for any of us, certified as marksmanship experts, to carry out with a bolt action $10 .22 rifle. The gun control argument is akin to improving fuel mileage by building larger gas tanks. No one has any business owning a military weapon but the fallacy of thinking gun control will stop, or even slow mass shooting reveals the ignorance of many. |
