| Author | Message | ||
     Greatlaker |
Just watching it on CNN now. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
3 dead plus the shooter.  Obama says he is going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened....well duh. | ||
| Oldog |
Obama says he is going to get to the bottom of exactly what happened lets see, Fox ( the net work o is at war with ) says that the initial reports is that the shooter was being treated for PTSD and was considered ill, What would the outcome been if the MILITARY WERE ALLOWED TO CARRY WEAPONS ON BASE? This happened needlessly, and the folks that put the no carry rules in to effect are partially to blame. My Heart felt sympathies / and Prayers to the families of the victims also to the shooter, His wounds were not visible but were there none the less.  Our service members deserve better... } | ||
| Greatlaker |
Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. The legacy of war that keeps on giving. | ||
| Hootowl |
True that. | ||
| Pwnzor |
My dad, step dad, all my uncles and older male cousins could be described as having what they call PTSD. While I agree it is a valid condition, I do not agree that it is a reason to commit violent acts. We can only pray for the families of the victims, and the perpetrator himself. | ||
| Court |
I'd suggest, having been shot 3 times, that most folks don;t understand the depth and severity of PTSD. My heart goes out to the families of all the victims. This is terrible. | ||
| Blake |
Greatlaker Posted on Thursday, April 03, 2014 - 08:35 am: >>> Post Traumatic Stress Disorder. The legacy of war that keeps on giving. That's a disgustingly flippant mischaracterization. Freedom or oppression are legacies of various wars. The defeat of slavery and mass-murdering genocidal tyrants like Hitler, Sadaam, and bin Laden are legacies of wars. War is €#%£ing hell on earth, death, destruction, horror, suffering, mortal combat, friendly fire, collateral damage, dismemberment, crippling, maddening... That is what war actually entails, but that is not its legacy. The alternative is "not war", which in some cases means to surrender to evil mass-murdering genocidal tyrants and terrorists. War and all its horrors is the legacy of evil men, men like Jefferson Davis, Hitler, Saddam Hussein, Osama bin Laden, etc. PTSD is one of the terrible costs of war borne by some. What are you doing to help? I suggest we all support the good organizations that are doing good work helping our veterans recover from the debilitating effects of combat. http://www.charitynavigator.org/index.cfm?bay=cont ent.view&cpid=531#.Uz18Yaa9K0c | ||
| Reindog |
Laurie and I give to Wounded Warriors Project. | ||
| Oldog |
The shooter Had PTSD and WHY are military budgets and Vets benefits being cut, Oh yeah to help buy votes Rein do the WWP help vets with PTSD? The Fisher house rated 4 stars (Message edited by oldog on April 03, 2014) | ||
| Court |
Both The Wounded Warrior Project and The Fisher House are great. | ||
| Greatlaker |
Blake. Who are you to judge what "disgustingly flippant" is? Within the last 24 months there has been 18 Canadian soldiers who have taken their lives after returning from Afghanistan. Alarm bells are going off in the government as Canadian Veteran's Affairs has set up a new 24 hour telephone hotline to help soldiers deal with PTSD. For whatever reason PTSD is a sorry fact of life for soldiers returning back from active service in conflict. I don't know what is "flippant" about that. It's a fact. In the future there are going to be more U.S. soldiers who either take their own lives or lash out violently against society in some way or another. Some of it will get reported in the media and some of it won't. None the less, its a legacy of war that will be ongoing for years and decades to come. I'm not being flippant, I'm just stating the truth. Why would you possibly have any issue with that Blake? By the way, how much money have you donated to your military charity of choice? http://www.torontosun.com/2014/03/19/two-more-afgh anistan-vets-commit-suicide | ||
| Court |
>>>> None the less, its a legacy of war that will be ongoing for years and decades to come. And has throughout history. We are just now getting real time iPad video which limey makes it seem "new". | ||
| Hootowl |
I'm reminded of Carlin's bit about the progression from "shell shock" to the more benign sounding euphemism, "Post Traumatic Stress Disorder". | ||
| Cataract2 |
By the way, how much money have you donated to your military charity of choice? Better yet, how much time has he donated to a veteran charity? Gone and donated time to wounded warriors? Given them a ride to therapy? etc? Or has he just wrote a check and waved a flag to feel good about it? (Message edited by cataract2 on April 03, 2014) | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
How much time and money have i donated? Very good point and thank you for the reminder. I used to donate at football games when one of th guys would take up a collection. Since i stopped going i haven't. Thank you for the reminder I'll change that come payday. Any recommendations where to donate time and money would be appreciated. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Local VA if you have one, for volunteer time. Fischer house is another excellent place to volunteer for something to do. By the way folks, the shooter was never overseas or on any front line, according to what I've read. | ||
| Aesquire |
These things are never accurate at first. Play "Dirty Laundry" while you watch the news. | ||
| Blake |
Choosing to see only the miseries of war as its legacy is just brain rotting petty miserableness which insults the noble efforts and incredible sacrifices of our freely serving warriors while diminishing the horrendous evil they confront and do battle against on behalf of all freedom and justice loving people. War does not occur from a vacuum. Your disdain ought be aimed at the likes of Hitler, bin Laden, Saddam Hussein. Not the war that THEY spawned. "The gift that keeps on giving"? Flippant: Not showing a serious or respectful attitude. Absolutely dead straight accurate. I've said my piece and made my point. | ||
| Mtnmason |
Blake- " ...the legacy of evil men, men like Jefferson Davis..." "If I thought this war was being fought to end slavery, I would tender my resignation and offer my sword to the other side." - U.S. Grant The War for Southern Independence was a tariff war and nothing more. Sure, slavery was an overwhelming catalyst to sectional tensions, however, labeling Davis an 'evil' man grievously betrays your ignorance on the topic. Perhaps next time you may consider doing a little historical research before posting such an absurd and offensive comment. I forgive you for falling victim to revisionist history, as so many have, but in the end you are only doing yourself a disservice. Perhaps you are unaware that the Emancipation Proclamation did not apply to slaves on sugar cane plantations in Louisiana as Lincoln himself had heavy financial ties to the industry. The victors are the ones who benefit from writing history. Dig a little deeper and you'll find the truth that was never told. | ||
| Mtnmason |
In relation to the original topic - prayers go out to ALL affected. There is an easy way to stop this kind of tragedy. I doubt I really need to elaborate on the solution. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I agree with Court - very few people truly understand the effects of a life-altering trauma (military or otherwise). PTSD is a very real condition, and it has very real consequences - whether the affected person acts out against others or not, they are still in purgatory for a very, very long time. Without help, love, and support...they never get out. They may never harm another person...but they also won't get any better. When you go through it...it becomes painfully clear. Every. Single. Day. For anyone interested, check out "The Gargoyle" by Andrew Davidson. Pop fiction as opposed to a medical text, but it was recommended to me when I was in the TBI ward coping with brain bleeds and struggling to walk again. A very sobering piece. My heart and love to those who were affected that day. | ||
| Two_seasons |
I stand corrected. shooter was overseas, but never in battle. Molly-coddled nation. People are responsible for their own actions, but little is done in America today to punish them! | ||
| Blake |
MtnMason, For whatever reason you might contrive, Jefferson Davis and his ilk eagerly promoted war over diplomacy and the rule of law. As a result we had war and all that enjoins it. It was entirely unnecessary, and it was a complete and utter failure. Suffering born of nothing but pride, and hubris. States rights, yes, the right to treat other humans as cattle. The facts of history are clear enough. Simply read the commentaries of congressmen of the day and the intense struggle over slave versus free status of new states. There also exist comforting explanations for the horrific scenes of Andersonville prison. They too fall egregiously short. | ||
| Mtnmason |
Jefferson and his ilk eagerly promoted war over diplomacy and the rule of law. Wait. Who invaded whom? "God forbid that the day should ever come when to be true to my constituents is to be hostile to the Union" - Jeff Davis Throughout the 1850's as much as 80% of the roughly $3Bil US GDP was produced by the South. The Morrill Tariff of 1859 raised the tariff rate from an already high 15% to an astounding 50%. Lincoln's invasion of the South had NOTHING to do with freeing the slaves (although it did make a great selling point later on). The purpose for invasion was to keep the money flowing in on Southern goods. and it was a complete and utter failure Failure? Despite the Federals enjoying unlimited manpower, unlimited economic resource (mostly stolen money to begin with), established military infrastructure, a vastly superior rail system, far greater capacity to produce steel - I could go on and on - it STILL took them four years to put down a rag-tag group of farmers, many of whom had no shoes on their feet and were forced to pull resources from a war ravaged land. Yea, I'd call that failure on a grand scale. I would suggest continuing this topic in a separate thread but it's apparent you probably have YEARS worth of reading to get caught up enough to make it worth my while. | ||
| Sifo |
Throughout the 1850's as much as 80% of the roughly $3Bil US GDP was produced by the South. The Morrill Tariff of 1859 raised the tariff rate from an already high 15% to an astounding 50%. Lincoln's invasion of the South had NOTHING to do with freeing the slaves (although it did make a great selling point later on). The purpose for invasion was to keep the money flowing in on Southern goods. There's a good deal of truth in what you have stated there. The idea that this had nothing to do with slavery just ignores reality though. Slavery was an issue of debate at the time. Just take a quick look into the Lincoln/Douglas debates in 1858... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lincoln%E2%80%93Dougl as_debates
And the 1860 Presidential debates... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_preside ntial_election,_1860
History is pretty clear that slavery was a hot issue during this time. The tariffs you speak of were part of the North's efforts to pressure the South on the slavery issue. To claim that slavery was not central to this is simply revisionist history. I do think the South was right on many points of states rights, but slavery was a very poor issue on which to make that stand. | ||
| Aesquire |
You are seriously arguing the War of Northern Aggression. ......... Again?  More than one reason. Northern industrial concerns didn't want the south to industrialize.. slavery. .. English support for slavery to get cotton for their mills.... in competition with northern US mills..... etc. It's oversimplification to say "slavery". It's untrue to say it was not a major issue. Morally & economically. The tragedy before us is deeper than shell shock. There has been a huge increase in rampage suicide in the last 40 years. Why? | ||
| Mtnmason |
I don't like when threads get jacked, either. But when someone goes so far as to group JD with the likes of Hitler, Hussein, bin Laden (I can't figure why he left out Mao, Pol Pot, Lenin, Aidid, etc.) I couldn't not speak out on such an egregious (to use his word) and (to me) offensive mischaracterization. If the Nazification of the Confederacy seems legit to someone, I'm not going to waste my time trying to convince them otherwise. A large number of Union soldiers had never even seen a person of African descent. I can't imagine why they would volunteer to possibly be blown to pieces out of concern for the well-being of the 'negro'. The radical Abolitionists loved nothing more than stoking the flames, when in all reality, they dreaded the idea of freedmen migrating northward. Likewise, unbiased historians estimate that less than 10% of Confederate enlisted men owned a slave. Slavery, in fact, was detrimental to the condition of the yeoman farmer and many of them were well aware of this. Combine that with the fact that white Southerners knew slavery would soon "die a natural death" whether they gained independence or not, and it is even harder to imagine that slavery was on anyone's mind once the grape shot and canister began to fly. Whether the West would be settled by Northerners or Southerners is really the only way that slavery was a legitimate factor in the war. Otherwise, why wasn't the Emancipation Proclamation given at the outset? In all likelihood, Blake and I may tend to agree on many topics. I just wish that he would rethink branding JD an 'evil' man (ok, he could've used some of Lee's restraint in regards to the bread riot in Richmond). Aesquire - as long as people continue to polarize the topic for political purpose, the horse is far from dead and needs to be thrashed accordingly from time to time. I will refrain from posting anymore about the conflict as it bears zero relevance to the topic at hand. Carry on. (Message edited by mtnmason on April 05, 2014) | ||
| Blake |
So waging war even in part to maintain the status quo of the African slave trade, one of the most horrific inhuman acts of mankind ever to tarnish this earth, no big deal? There was no need for war, no egregious affronts to unalienable rights, no tyranny, well aside from the slavery of course. Yes, Jefferson Davis and his greedy slaver comrades deserve to hang alongside the likes of the rest of the greedy inhuman warmongers of the world. Hitler surely said and wrote some nice sounding prose as well, as did all such beasts. Do you have any idea of the massive suffering and carnage wrought by the American Civil War. You know, the one started with the confederacy firing on the Union. | ||
| Greatlaker |
"There has been a huge increase in rampage suicide in the last 40 years. Why?" Mentally unstable people + modern assault weaponry = lots of dead people Not sure why you couldn't figure that one out yourself Aesquire. |
