| Author | Message | ||
     Rocket_in_uk |
Rocket Please explain the relationship of the Ukraine with the Waffen SS From a historical position why would I care if one monster eats the other. Why stop with the Ukraine Ken? Why don't we look at America and all those nasty SS war criminals the US gave cosy lifestyles to? I'm not sure what period you refer to as WW3 but Europe is a pretty peaceable place and has been since WW2. As for the EU being overrun. By whom and how? The UK alone would be a pretty formidable force to come up against in an all out war. What a grim thought  Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Actually no Patrick. We as British people are proud that we won the war. We don't credit the US as our saviours or rescuers. We see the US as our allies, and always have. Had America not entered the 2nd WW your beliefs suggest Germany would have invaded and conquered Britain. Unlikely given how much the British had achieved before the US got involved. That and the 25 or so other Commonwealth nations, often unsung, that fought alongside Britain to defeat the Nazi's. Not to mention the Russian's coming the other way just 18 months after the US joined forces with Britain and the Commonwealth. This being the real reason Britain 'couldn't have lost'. I believe you'd have a hard job proving Hitler wouldn't have been defeated had the US not got involved. Yet it seems to me there's this constant belief held by many American's that it was they and they alone that won the 2nd WW, and Britain especially, should be forever grateful. I think the 60 year debt the UK paid America took the icing of the celebration cake. That and the fact Britain had to dissolve its Empire thanks to the 'US saving Britain from bankruptcy deal'. http://hitchensblog.mailonsunday.co.uk/2014/01/not -so-special-an-amazing-account-of-the-usas-unwilli ngness-to-enter-world-war-two.html Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
You can certainly argue that Hitler shot his chance at the invasion of England with the Battle of Britain. That it was only the European mainland that we liberated. We'll skip the unpleasantness 200 years ago, and yes we've been allies. In fact some say the dominant paradigm for the 20th Century was that England & the US spoke English. Between the British Empire and the US in the Pacific we established English as the language of the Air, and freed more people from tyranny than anyone in history. Period. Off topic, there is a speculation that if Hitler had NOT fought the Battle of Britain, and lost half his air force, and instead had sent even half that lost power to Africa, that Rommel could have taken Egypt, then swept through Iraq, ( where the clans Allied to Hitler are STILL the bad guys ) up around the east end of the Med, and secured his oil supply. This would have cut off the Suez canal and allowed the isolation of Malta. This, the speculation argues, would have Hitler winning WW2. ( still not including the taking of England, and of course if he had not turned on Russia ) Don't know if it was feasible, but it's an interesting idea. If the Soviets would have beat the Nazis without British & US help? I doubt it, but of course, they would not think so. Partly because they purged their own history to make it so. We still have to deal with error in this reasoning....which is still a factor in today's news. "However much we may sympathize with a small nation confronted by a big and powerful neighbor, we cannot in all circumstances undertake to involve the whole British Empire in a war simply on her account. If we have to fight it must be on larger issues than that..." N.C. | ||
| Strokizator |
I'm happy to be condescending, arrogant and elitist for the sake of humanity to all mankind. How F'n noble of you. I'm sure the world thanks you. | ||
| Britchri10 |
This for all y'all: The means and the manpower to win WWII came from the US. Without US involvement from the start in 1939 and their eventual entry into the conflict in late 1941-42 Britain & it's empire would not have been able to win anywhere. We simply did not have the materiel necessary or the ability to secure our supply lines. France and the Low Countries were defeated by the end of 1940. Britain stood alone in Europe. The Battle of Britain went Britain's way but it was a defensive victory only. The only battle Britain won on her own was El Alamein & we wouldn't have won that without American materiel (Sherman & Grant tanks, gasoline and ammunition. Oh, plus airplanes, lots of airplanes.) Subsequent American landings in West N. Africa (Operation Torch) helped evict Germany from N. Africa. The invasion of Sicily was a joint US/UK operation. Operation Overlord was an American led effort by which time UK forces were maximized, in that there was simply no more manpower available after June. 1944. Britain managed to lose all of it's SE Asian territories and only held Australia because of the efforts of the USN and the basing of US Marine forces there. So, I am a Brit' who has read some history, listened to my family who survived WWII and has come to the conclusion that, without the USA Britain would not have survived WWII and the iron curtain would have stretched from Norway to Spain. (Don't get me started on the Cold War!) Chris C | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Chris C, it seems you didn't read enough history, as your view is somewhat misleading with regard to several major events WW2. Rocket in England | ||
| Pwnzor |
His history sounds pretty spot on to me. Of course I only know what I've read, and been told by people who experienced it first hand. | ||
| Britchri10 |
Which descriptions of events do you disagree with? Chris C | ||
| Torquehd |
Between the British Empire and the US in the Pacific we established English as the language of the Air, and freed more people from tyranny than anyone in history. Period. And may no one forget that. May God continue to bless both of our nations as He has for so many hundreds of years. And may He give us wisdom regarding how to handle current and future situations. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Which descriptions of events do you disagree with? Pretty much everything you said. Rocket in England | ||
| Britchri10 |
Thanks for being so specific.  Chris C | ||
| Aesquire |
That's the difference between belief in the "truth" of revisionist Soviet History.... and what really happened. Like the Free and Spontaneous Support For the Russian Liberators. ( has that EVER actually happened? Outside Nazi occupied territory? ) The only possible exception to the factual nature of that post is the statement that Britain would not have survived WW2. For values of Survived. Norway to Capetown Soviet? oh, yeah. (Message edited by aesquire on March 30, 2014) | ||
| Xdigitalx |
IMHO, No matter what different scenarios could have happened, I think it would have been the same outcome (Allies winning sooner or later) I don't think Axis/Hitler would have ever won WWII. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
I think it's safe to assume after 550 posts that Rocket lives in his own little fantasy world. I guess next he will be telling us the Holocaust never happened. I have a dear friend who is a liberal. Hell of a nice guy and he's not stupid by any means but he is intellectually lazy. Liberals get their news and information from sound bites on the Daily Show between bong hits or shots. A library is a building they drive by on occasion and Google is how they find porn. I know I know...it's a generalization (Message edited by ferris_von_bueller on March 30, 2014) | ||
| Britchri10 |
@FVB: Steady on. I'm what you guys would call a "liberal".  Chris C | ||
| Reindog |
This is the syllabus of Professor Rocket's course as evidenced by his postings. * Russia is downtrodden because of the West. * The United States of America is evil. * It is permissible for Russia to invade, hold a fake election, and annex the Crimea. * England would have won WWII by itself if necessary. * Being Jewish makes one evil. To be explored in a future course. * The Holocaust did not happen. * Russia did not murder 7.5 million Ukrainians in the man-made famine called the Holodomor. * The Moon landings were faked. * 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy. * Erik Buell is also a Jewish conspiracy. | ||
| Aesquire |
The term "Liberal" in the US has been stolen and corrupted by the Progressives. The "Progressive Movement" is a Communist variant that does not call for Revolution, since In the US we had No Kings or Czars and had it better than the aristocracy in most of the rest of the world. So "progressive" uses infiltration, getting into positions of power to affect Regressive change to Authoritarian ways of life. Naturally you have to lie to do that, and the Progressives embrace The Lie as a blessing. One of the lies is that they are Liberal. Rush started incorrectly calling Communist Variants "liberals". Today, you can't tell if someone is a real Liberal, a dupe, or a lying evil collectivist without actually discussing their views. Alas, the formerly proud name of Liberal ( you remember, equal rights for all? ) is now coated in the slime of the Leftist. You may not agree with any of the above, but the one that lies to you, or allies himself with the people that look forward to sending you to a re-education camp are not Liberals. Big on Commie Core? Argue by calling you a racist? Lefty. Chris, I just go with Social Libertarian, since Liberal is not useful as a descriptor. I can find porn on Google?  As to the "allies" wining sooner or later.... maybe not. Without US supply Britain might have held out for a long time, but there wouldn't have been any "allies". By 1941 it was the Empire, and us. Could England have received aid from Argentina? Wouldn't have been bombers. Beef maybe. IF if IF.... If the US had gone full isolationist, and pulled back from becoming the arsenal of Democracy, AND Pearl Harbor didn't happen, who knows? Would we have gone to war just to protect/avenge/retake the Philippines? Many would have argued against that. Many today still argue against "foreign entanglements" and for good reason. In the novel "1945" Adolph Hitler was injured in a plane crash, Dec 6 1941. While incapacitated Goebbels & Himmler declare war on Japan after the Pearl Harbor attack, thus keeping the US out of the war in Europe. Then, being a novel, neat stuff happens. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1945_(1995_novel) Would that have worked? maybe. The march of history turns on tiny things. It's all speculation anyway, as Time's Arrow keeps us from fixing past mistakes.  | ||
| Brumbear |
Well I could go on for hours but to shorten this and get to the point. If and it's easy to say IF the Germans don't ease up on a certain beach in 1940 and the BEF is annihilated. IF the Luftwaffe concentrates on airfield bombing rather than retaliation for a city being bombed. Fast forward to late summer 1941 and IF the Germans refuse the attack on Smolensk improve their supply before initiating the attack on the city and the gateway to Moscow IDK mainland Europe COULD have had a different outcome. It really was that close. The UK would never had to be attacked until after the SU fell. With by 41 the British Army in N Africa being handed there hats and Asia a fiasco for both the US and Britian until mid 42 well... Anyway this mere 20 months of anschluss and occupation preceding POLAND gave Hitler what he would have needed except for a couple IF's and I for one don't want to play that bet AGAIN, not with anyone cause IF can go either way. Rocket your off the mark pal. (Message edited by brumbear on March 30, 2014) | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Reindog you're an idiot. If you can't debate / argue in a political thread without resorting to this kind of childish prank, you shouldn't be here. *Russia is not downtrodden because of the west. *The United States is not evil. *It is permissible for Russia to annex Crimea when 84% of its citizens voted in favour of rejoining Russia. *Great Britain (not England) would not have seized victory WW2 without the involvement of allied forces. *Being Jewish does not make one evil. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I think it's safe to assume after 550 posts that Rocket lives in his own little fantasy world. I'd ask you to point out which comments of mine in particular draw you to this dumb conclusion. I'd wager I'll be able to support any disagreement you have against my comments with facts and figures. Mine is not the head buried in the sand here. I am not driven by some right wing patriotic sense of well being to support my country because I've been brainwashed into believing it's the land of the free and there's a great dream waiting to reward me for being one of my countries patriotic citizens come what may. Is this you Ferris VB? Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Rocket your off the mark pal. I am? One example of your blind ignorance. Britain handed their hats in 41 N.Africa  You need a history lesson. British forces trounced 300 odd thousand Italian's in months, with a 65000 strong army. Only when through some Greek treaty British forces were diverted away from N.Africa in great numbers, did Rommel seize his chance. Yes the British and allied forces were initially beaten by Rommel's advance, though Rommel, ignoring orders ran himself out of his own supply lines, Britain and allied forces once again becoming victorious. It might serve you and some others to study WW2 history a little more in depth. Here's a good place to start. http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/648813/W orld-War-II Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
WHAT A WASTE OF A SUNDAY HOUR Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
That's hilarious! right wing patriotic sense of well being to support my country WT heck makes you interpret a long series of posts that are critical of the temporary ( we hope & pray ) "leaders" of our country with anything resembling a "sense of well being"??? Yeah, I support my Nation, Millions of people, ( lots of idiots in millions of people ) thousands of square miles of territory and most important a philosophy on limited power in the hands of those who would be King. We're going through a rough patch this century, but I still have some hope we'll come through it without nuking the planet. Might even not have a very bloody revolution. Again. There's hope. Brainwashed? Your support of the annexation of the 97%...84% ? Those are far too like the numbers reported every time Saddam was re-elected, and too too close to the 110% turn out rate for Obama in some US cities. How about we see IF/WHO Putin Conquers/Liberates next? IMHO the biggest harm the West has done to Russia is letting the Soviets rule. Putin is ex-Soviet. Is he Savior? Or Czar? | ||
| Aesquire |
Britain and allied forces once again becoming victorious. Kinda the point. Beating the Italians that outnumbered the Empire troops was incredible dangerous work, and really doesn't get the credit in history texts here it deserves. ( probably because you beat Italians ) The combination Of Brit & Yank airpower & the Brit Army stopped Rommel, and it was close. It was a multifaceted war in the Med & Africa. Look up "Faith, Hope, and Charity". The 3 remaining Hawker Fury biplane fighters on Malta that kept on fighting. England sent them parts for Hurricanes. They didn't get Hurricanes for over a year after that, so they made them work. They scrounged, they improvised and the got bombed, day after day. Seriously impressive achievement. | ||
| Britchri10 |
They weren't Fury's they were Gladiator's! (But what do I know, my knowledge of history is poor!)  Chris C | ||
| Reindog |
Reindog you're an idiot. Rocket, your words speak for themselves so there is no need to hurl insults at people who disagree with your opinion. "Frankly, it's the sort of thing Miggs would say".  | ||
| Britchri10 |
El Alemain I stopped Rommel. El Alemain II turned the tide. UK & Empire forces advanced, Rommel retreated in good order, having been defeated@ El Alemain II. If Montgomery had gotten off his arse & pursued quickly and efficiently, Rommel would have been annihilated. Montgomery didn't & the subsequent fighting in Tunisia ensued. Chris C (Edited for spelling) (Message edited by britchri10 on March 30, 2014) | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Rocket, your words speak for themselves so there is no need to hurl insults at people who disagree with your opinion. Really? This is the syllabus of Professor Rocket's course as evidenced by his postings. * Russia is downtrodden because of the West. * The United States of America is evil. * It is permissible for Russia to invade, hold a fake election, and annex the Crimea. * England would have won WWII by itself if necessary. * Being Jewish makes one evil. To be explored in a future course. * The Holocaust did not happen. * Russia did not murder 7.5 million Ukrainians in the man-made famine called the Holodomor. * The Moon landings were faked. * 9/11 was a Jewish conspiracy. * Erik Buell is also a Jewish conspiracy. You're not very good at this are you. Your hypocrisy does nothing to earn my respect. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
How about we see IF/WHO Putin Conquers/Liberates next? Why wait? We can both predict what will be told of the evil Russian's and the Soviet nasty Putin, when America and Britain force their hands to do exactly what we all know they have to do. Rocket in England | ||
| Brumbear |
Rocket the British Army were rocked until Monty took over the eighth Army and had a very very very large numerical advantage. Op Brevity FAIL OP Battleaxe FAIL Gazala FAIL El Alemaien mid 42 US SUPPLIES Look at the armor used Don't be an idiot look at the numbers |
