| Author | Message | ||
     Rocket_in_uk |
The 20 year plan was the Russian "propaganda" against the Oligarchs in the EU. That the EU has planned to absorb the old Soviet states, I'm not sure how you've turned the link around as Russian propaganda given the link is supposedly about a 20 year plan by the EU to groom eastern nations into the EU. The link seems factual to me, so where are you getting this propagated twist from? You don't believe the report? Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The exact same thing could be said about you with your head firmly entrenched in the re-Sovietization sand. Except it isn't. Nothing I've seen since the fall of the Berlin Wall and end of the Cold War tells me Russia is engaged in Sovietization. In fact the EXACT opposite is true, which is essentially why this topic exists. It's Europeization you're referring to surely? The EU taking in former Russian states Estonia, Latvia, and Lithuania. Former Russian satellite states, Poland, East Germany, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Hungary, Romania, Bulgaria. And what were once part of Socialist Yugoslavia, now Slovenia, and Croatia, all Eastern bloc now EU member states. I don't see Putin mobilising 16000 military in Crimea as Russia attempting to Sovietize eastern Europe. Do American's really swallow that 5hit? Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
First.... Americans! Quite trying to kill the messenger! Information was requested from the Old World, and Rocket has been courteous to provide it. The fact that he seems to believe the news source is less laudable, perhaps, but he's hearing this stuff 24/7 so take his input with the appropriate filter. Rocket, the link is to a RT news story, right? ( please correct me here ) The Russian's report that the EU has a plan to assimilate the former Soviet block nations is a link from WHO? just checking...... because if it's to a EU website, then it's a EU plan. If it's from a Russian website, it's a Russian story about an EU plan. Right? I would be astonished if the EU does NOT have a plan to to groom eastern nations into the EU. Just as I have to suspect that anything our current regime's Press Secretary says is propaganda and lies, I have to assume anything Putin's Press dude say's is as well. Then I have to extend that distrust to "news" agencies that are consistent in their praise for the current Regime. Ditto Russia. "Believe the Report"???? Why should I? This is war. The Putins on the world will lie to you to gain their goals. When Adolf sent Chamberlain back to London to wave a paper around and proclaim "peace in our time" he was happy to lie to the aristocratic idiot. When Barack told the planet ( fill in your lie of choice ) he was happy to lie to get what he wanted. When a Russian mouthpiece tells me the same things I've heard before about the safety of ethnic colonies in a foreign country being vital to Russian interests, (and they are) and that the enemy is corrupt and evil, (and they often are) so Russia must send troops in to secure the area and hold a free election of their colony to determine what level of protection Russia will grant them. ( the pattern for conquest for a century.... ) I'm going to be skeptical to disbelieving. And.... thank you again for the news. I just like keeping it in perspective. I don't want that moron Barack sending troops to attack Russia! The time to attack Russia was 1945. As soon ask to change events on Feb 12 1307. | ||
| Aesquire |
Rocket may have a point. "Europe" has long had a history of dirty dealings and war. It's been the Aristocracy that makes war, of course. In Russia, that murdered it's old aristocracy, and installed a new one, they have been settling who will be in the new new one, often with prison and blood. You know, like always. Are you suggesting, Rocket, that we would be better advised to target Brussels than Moscow? That our spies should work at least as hard in our NATO brothers lands as in the former Bloc? ( I am told, we do ) Is "f the EU" really wise diplomacy or political hacks in over their head? | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Well Patrick, I didn't read that report as being anything but factual. The video showed an elected MP being bashed about and taken from his post under duress, threat, and insult. Are you saying it was a staged event and not real? This is the propaganda you speak of? It's not an isolated case either. This one is showing on RT now, with an entire translation. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mlKEF5uoU_I There are countless reports showing on RT which look every bit genuine by location, surroundings, those involved. They show shocking accounts of the treatment of some eastern Ukraine people suffering at the hands of masked, hooded, covered, weapon carrying groups of people. Are you seeing this on your TV's? It's not pretty and it doesn't look staged. What is blatantly clear here in the UK is eastern Ukraine see themselves as Russian. Their vote on Sunday will support this, yet Kerry, with UK and EU leaders support, say they will not recognise this quickly brought about referendum, sighting a breach of international law as their reason. http://washingtonexaminer.com/john-kerry-russia-ha s-until-monday-to-reverse-course-in-ukraine/articl e/2545610 This really does look like the US spoiling for a fight. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Are you suggesting, Rocket, that we would be better advised to target Brussels than Moscow? That our spies should work at least as hard in our NATO brothers lands as in the former Bloc? ( I am told, we do ) I'm not suggesting anything. I'm going to bed  and again, I don't see where you're coming from with this statement. Why does the US need to target either Brussels or Moscow? Why can't the US do what I'm doing. Go to bed and sleep it off! They're not wanted nor are they welcome in Ukraine. Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
Pretty much agree Kerry is a (pick your swear word) and the US shouldn't be stupid. Spoiling for a fight? Not me. I think our Fearless Leaders are bluffing and stupidly. Target Brussels. Got it. Thanks. (too bad it's not my job  See the movie "Wag The Dog". And the moonlanding vid on the Conspiracy thread. | ||
| Aesquire |
my bad, it wasn't on the conspiracy thread. here you go. http://pixelbark.com/9550/why-the-moon-landing-is- not-a-hoax | ||
| Reindog |
Kraut provides a sober assessment of what is to be done. I could care less what RT nee Pravda has to say. Appeasement and burying ones head in the sand are clearly not solutions. Nor is going to war...but only as a last resort. Tomorrow's vote is a fraud and has a high probability of further Russoviet action into the rest of Ukraine...and Estonia...and Lithuania...and...and? The world needs Reagans and Churchills and never again Chamberlains. Charles Krauthammer: How to stop Putin By The Washington Post Writers Group 5 p.m.March 14, 2014 The president of the Los Angeles World Affairs Council challenges critics of President Obama’s Ukraine policy by saying “What are you going to do, send the 101st Airborne into Crimea?” Not exactly subtle. And rather silly, considering that no one has proposed such a thing. The alternative to passivity is not war but a serious foreign policy. For the last five years, Obama’s fruitless accommodationism has invited the kind of aggressiveness demonstrated by Iran in Syria, China in the East China Sea and Russia in Ukraine. But what’s done is done. Put that aside. What is to be done now? We have three objectives. In ascending order of difficulty: Reassure NATO. Deter further Russian incursion into Ukraine. Reverse the annexation of Crimea. Reassure NATO: We’re already sending U.S. aircraft to patrol the airspace of the Baltic states. That’s not enough. Send the chairman of the Joint Chiefs to the Baltics to arrange joint maneuvers. Same for the four NATO countries bordering Ukraine — Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania. Urgently revive the original missile defense agreements concluded with Poland and the Czech Republic before Obama canceled them unilaterally to appease Russia. Deter Russia: Extend the Black Sea maneuvers in which the USS Truxtun is currently engaged with Romania and Bulgaria. These were previously scheduled. Order immediate — and continual — follow-ons. Declare that any further Russian military incursion beyond Crimea will lead to a rapid and favorable response from NATO to any request from Kiev for weapons. These would be accompanied by significant numbers of NATO trainers and advisers. This is no land-war strategy. This is the “tripwire” strategy successful for half a century in Germany and Korea. Any Russian push into western Ukraine would then engage a thin tripwire of NATO trainer/advisers. That is something the most rabid Soviet expansionist never risked. Nor would Putin. It would, therefore, establish a ring of protection at least around the core of western Ukraine. Reverse annexation: Clearly the most difficult. In the short run, likely impossible. There are no military cards to play, Russia holding all of them. Ukraine’s forces are very weak. The steps must be diplomatic and economic. First, Crimean secession under Russian occupation must lead to Russia’s immediate expulsion from the G-8. To assuage the tremulous Angela Merkel, we could do it by subtraction: All seven democracies withdraw from the G-8, then instantly reconstitute as the original G-7. As for economic sanctions, they are currently puny. We haven’t done a thing. We haven’t even named names. We’ve just authorized the penalizing of individuals. Name the names, freeze their accounts. But any real effect will require broader sanctions and for that we need European cooperation. The ultimate sanction is to cut off Russian oligarchs, companies and banks from the Western financial system. That’s the economic “nuclear option” that brought Iran to its knees and to the negotiating table. It would have a devastating effect on Putin’s economy. As of now, the Germans, French and British have balked. They have too much economic interest in the Moscow connection. Which means we can do nothing decisive in the short or even medium term. But we can severely squeeze Russia in the long term. How? For serious sanctions to become possible, Europe must first be weaned off Russian gas. Obama should order the Energy Department to expedite authorization for roughly 25 liquid natural gas export facilities. Demand all decisions within six weeks. Second, call for urgent bipartisan consultation with congressional leaders for an emergency increase in defense spending, restoring at least $100 billion annually to the defense budget to keep U.S. armed forces at current strength or greater. Obama won’t do it but he should. Nothing demonstrates American global retreat more than a budget that reduces the U.S. Army to 1940 levels. Obama is not the first president to conduct a weak foreign policy. Jimmy Carter was similarly inclined — until Russia invaded Afghanistan, at which point the scales fell from Carter’s eyes. He responded boldly: imposing the grain embargo on the Soviets, boycotting the Moscow Olympics, increasing defense spending and ostentatiously sending a machine gun-toting Zbigniew Brzezinski to the Khyber Pass, symbolizing the massive military aid we began sending the mujahedeen, whose insurgency so bled the Russians over the next decade that they not only lost Afghanistan but were fatally weakened as a global imperial power. Invasion woke Carter from his illusions. Will it wake Obama? source: http://www.utsandiego.com/news/2014/Mar/14/krautha mmer-putin-obama-ukraine-crimea/?#article-copy | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
The president of the Los Angeles World Affairs Council challenges critics of President Obama’s Ukraine policy by saying “What are you going to do, send the 101st Airborne into Crimea?” Not exactly subtle. And rather silly, considering that no one has proposed such a thing. Obama's a little ahead of himself isn't he is the point. What O's opponents are really saying is, O's sanctions aren't going to work. WTF are you doing messing in Ukraine anyway. Hence their 101st airborne quip. It's not meant to be subtle. It's sarcasm! Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
We have three objectives. In ascending order of difficulty: Reassure NATO. Deter further Russian incursion into Ukraine. Reverse the annexation of Crimea. Reassure NATO: We’re already sending U.S. aircraft to patrol the airspace of the Baltic states. That’s not enough. Send the chairman of the Joint Chiefs to the Baltics to arrange joint maneuvers. Same for the four NATO countries bordering Ukraine — Poland, Slovakia, Hungary and Romania. Urgently revive the original missile defense agreements concluded with Poland and the Czech Republic before Obama canceled them unilaterally to appease Russia. Deter Russia: Extend the Black Sea maneuvers in which the USS Truxtun is currently engaged with Romania and Bulgaria. These were previously scheduled. Order immediate — and continual — follow-ons. Declare that any further Russian military incursion beyond Crimea will lead to a rapid and favorable response from NATO to any request from Kiev for weapons. These would be accompanied by significant numbers of NATO trainers and advisers. This is no land-war strategy. This is the “tripwire” strategy successful for half a century in Germany and Korea. Any Russian push into western Ukraine would then engage a thin tripwire of NATO trainer/advisers. That is something the most rabid Soviet expansionist never risked. Nor would Putin. It would, therefore, establish a ring of protection at least around the core of western Ukraine. Let's look at the above comments realistically.  There. That should add some perspective Rocket in England | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Mr. Obama Russia ! Now in Kherson - come visit Komrade ; it is warm spring and pretty girls in short skirts and high heels are here. It very nice, we like place for our Helicopters and Spetnaz Putin PS we still have cotton candy left over from Olympics - do come to visit with your red paint. | ||
| Hootowl |
Rocket, you're looking at the effect of the cause. We have bases all over Europe to protecting Europe from Russia, not to invade Russia. | ||
| Aesquire |
Telling this crew Obama is a joke on the international stage is wasting your breath. We already know. Obama is no friend to the UK, or Europe, because of the lies he grew up with about the horrors of YOUR colonies. ( never mind that if it's been a Brit colony it's better off, usually. ) He absorbed with his mother's milk that the Father that left them was a great revolutionary Communist Leader and was tortured by the British. ( or was that lie about his uncle? it's hard to keep track with a person who's past is a fiction ) There's a reason Obama has relieved more Generals than anyone this side of Stalin. Replaced most of the guys in charge of our Nuclear arsenal, in fact. What that reason is? You tell me, I'm sure the Russians know. I'm not going to ask you to be grateful for the troops we sent to die in Europe, over an over. It was all probably a horrible mistake. Sorry. While we're at it, we want reparations for the War of 1812.  | ||
| Aesquire |
btw.... just saw the trailer for a great little bit of aviation history. http://aerocinema.com/product/lightning-strikes2.h tml The Brits, until they gave up aviation & a lot more, built some of the best airplanes in the world. Bold, fast, powerful planes. Ah! the lost days of glory. Some of the blame for that goes to the US. We wanted to sell US built planes. How much in bribes did Brit politicians take to destroy their own industry? | ||
| Blake |
Boeing wasn't going to happen in Britain. Compare the evolution of the heavy bombers and cargo planes and you'll see why America dominated the commercial offshoot of airliners. It took socialist cooperation among a Euro consortium to contest that market. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Do remember that Britain after the war, was flat,stony, broke. The means to compete were simply absent for a very long time. US companies were however relatively flush & had the means to hire the best, the UK "Brain Drain" was very real, due in large part, to punitive tax regimes instigated by short sighted socialist governments. France is currently trying to go down the same road. I'm leaving. | ||
| Aesquire |
That's correct. Britain at the end of the war was at the height of industrial might, and domestic policies broke the aviation industry in a decade. Took another 20 years to trash the car industry. ( bought a Brit car lately? Maybe if you can afford an Aston-Martin ) A large part of that is protectionist policies in the US. Peugeot, Renault, Citroen, all had trouble getting past US rules on crash protection and emissions, so quit the US market. So did VW. Lada never had a chance, we never let them come in. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://news.yahoo.com/russia-says-intercepted-us-d rone-over-crimea-arms-180430584.html "The drone was flying at about 4,000 metres (12,000 feet) and was virtually invisible from the ground. It was possible to break the link with US operators with complex radio-electronic" technology, said Rostec in a statement. The drone fell "almost intact into the hands of self-defence forces" added Rostec, which said it had manufactured the equipment used to down the aircraft, but did not specify who was operating it. "Judging by its identification number, UAV MQ-5B belonged to the 66th American Reconnaissance Brigade, based in Bavaria," Rostec said on its website, which also carried a picture of what it said was the captured drone. More Russian Propaganda. http://rt.com/news/referendums-ukraine-west-relati ons-782/ Of course, just because it's propaganda, doen't mean there may not be some truth involved. The best lies have a tiny bit the liars can point to, after all. Succession? seems to be popular. http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/03/15/more-sover eignty-votes-sunday-referendum-may-see-venice-elec t-to-secede-from-italy/ http://www.bnn.ca/News/2014/3/5/Separatist-battle- in-Canada-rekindled-with-Quebec-election.aspx http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/politics/10700499/ Scotland-vote-threatens-to-derail-2015-election.ht ml Texas next? Pay attention to the simple fact that Scotland, Quebec, and Venice do not have foreign troops occupying the radio and tv stations, setting curfews, and promising to "protect the foreign speaking population". Well, maybe in Quebec.  | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Oh this is tedious. The last time I looked, Detroit was in ruins. Of course, the US car industry is alive and well. As is the UK car industry. http://www.smmt.co.uk/2013/10/car-manufacturing-to ps-one-million-units-2013/ UK in motorsport. Chris Aylett, chief executive of the MIA, commented: “Our report, the only one of its kind, shows that the world-beating UK motorsport industry is in rude health, with great future prospects. We’re seeing a growing appreciation, across the globe, of our pre-eminence in the field of high performance engineering, and for the quick-turnaround solutions demanded by the worldwide motorsport industry. A fast-growing number of these outstanding UK manufacturers are expanding, by exploiting their assets to the full, and diversifying into new markets such as mainstream automotive and defence. Transferable skills from motorsport include rapid prototyping, lightweight, low carbon, energy efficient solutions, and R&D based innovations which are in high demand. from here.... http://www.the-mia.com/MOTORSPORT-INDUSTRY-IS-THE- -BRIGHT-SPARK--OF-UK-MANUFACTURING The Brits, until they gave up aviation & a lot more, built some of the best airplanes in the world. Bold, fast, powerful planes. Ah! the lost days of glory. Some of the blame for that goes to the US. We wanted to sell US built planes. How much in bribes did Brit politicians take to destroy their own industry? Britain at the end of the war was at the height of industrial might, and domestic policies broke the aviation industry in a decade. Might I draw your attention to the Harrier Jump Jet. Concorde. Eurofighter Typhoon. Perhaps our most recognised aviation efforts since the end of the war. There have been many others. The UK aviation is alive and well. The problem we have here is similar to international politics. It's a case of looking further than the end of ones nose. Rocket in England | ||
| Blake |
Harrier, one of the coolest fighters ever built for sure. Amazing machine and flyable without computer assistance. Wish I could afford one. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Rocket certainly lives in his world | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
You missed your chance Blake. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1352943/eB ay-sale-The-Harrier-jump-jet-69-999.html Don't know how deep your pockets need to be today. Give them a call and let us know. http://www.everettaero.com/harrier.html Rocket in England | ||
| Kenm123t |
The Caravelle disasters are what killed British airliners That and the runaway battery decks in the Viscounts that killed nearly as many as the Caravelles! The Concorde while a wonderful plane was never a economic success and turned into a death trap when tire technology wasn't up to the planes performance. As much as I love The Harrier the Marines call them Carolina lawn darts planes are tough and repairable how ever they kill most of the pilots when they get over controlled. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
It wasn't the tyres which caused the (fatal) one and only crash Concorde suffered. Concorde flew commercial for 27 years. Nearly 50000 flights. More than 2.5 million flew on her. Concorde; a real death trap. Well, is there any wonder. It wasn't designed and built in America  I see the voting went as predicted in Crimea. Stupidly so has Britain and America's response thus far. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Crimean people have voted in a most democratic and peaceful manner. http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2014-03-16/crimea-re ferendum-voter-turnout-70-eu-rejects-illegal-illeg itimate-vote-seeks-additi Rocket in England | ||
| Xdigitalx |
The whole thing is retarded. 20k troops... yea I'd say it was peaceful. Are the troops moving into Ukraine yet? Might as well let him declare Ukraine part of Russia again... or will they need another 50k troops and another vote to take place?.... I wonder if Poland would like to join up too.... send 20k troops there too. Cool... Putin on the Ritz! | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
If you care to watch the news feeds any rational person observing can see it was a peaceful vote. Not only that. Crimean's were out in the streets celebrating party style, singing about rejoining their Russian motherland. Oh the propaganda! It did not look to me like such footage was staged. Nor do the media reports suggest such. Of course, no free thinking foreigners will expect American's en masse to believe the 73% turnout voted 97% in favour of rejoining their Russian motherland. Rocket in England | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Um.... no one said anything was propaganda, who said it was staged? Who said it wasn't peaceful?? (Not a shot fired!) So,... I guess none of the soldiers were needed after all!! It's wonderful!! | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Your sarcasm was duly noted X. If you wish to be seen as such in this topic, what responses do you expect from others that don't share your sarcasm? I happen to believe the results were bang on accurate, Media have reported voting was observed by independents. Thus far I've seen nothing which suggests the voting was anything but DEMOCRATICALLY carried out. I'm all ears if you're seeing media reports US that suggest otherwise. What is breaking within the last hour is the EU posing sanctions on 21 individuals (some Ukrainian's included), their assets frozen and travel bans imposed. Russian banks in London are showing concern. Germany too is said to be worried about their 1/3 Russian gas supply. It's unlikely Putin will be troubled by this but there's a train of thought here that such sanctions will fuel protest in Ukraine which could lead to Putin sending troops into Ukraine. In other words the EU (UK and US included) are provoking Putin into a fight. The bigger picture being talked about here is a 'new world order' if it escalates beyond economic sanctions (which have not yet [if at all]) being implemented. Rocket in England |
