| Author | Message | ||
     Rick_a |
An AR57 pistol would be pretty cool. | ||
| Rick_a |
First pic on Google search:  | ||
| Thumper74 |
Agreed! It should also solve those issues with ballistics... | ||
| Thumper74 |
If using the PS90 mag, we're stuck with at least a 10" barrel, which is fine. I like it. I really like it. The only 'issue' that I have is the commonality of parts and usage of the gun. | ||
| Reepicheep |
This was a really nice informative video as well... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkLfpgvm2Ng (Talks about the difference between the AR and AK platform, gave good examples of the strengths of each). | ||
| Sifo |
I'm not sure why you want a bullet to fragment in this context. To reduce penetration on interior walls? Exactly what I'm looking at. 9mm JHP is kind of known for going through your wall, your neighbors wall, the next wall, etc. That's great if you need to shoot through a barrier, but that's not typical of home defense. I've been noticing that there's some good .223/5.56 ammo that shoot fast enough that the bullet largely fragments going through drywall, but gives pretty good terminal ballistics in gelatin. I'm not talking about frangible bullets though. That's a whole nother mess of variables. That's not to say that the 9mm XD(m) would get put away in a safe. It's just an evolution in my personal tactics in my house with the weapons I currently own. The PS90 would be a cool tool, but I've already fulfilled my one gun a year allotment. To get a waiver for a very expensive gun already just isn't likely. I'm already working on that waiver for a second gun this year for a specific purpose, but need to sell one first. BTW, if interested in a Beretta Neos .22LR, drop me a PM. It shoots great and has been worked on to have about a 2.25 pound trigger. It just isn't what I want. | ||
| Blake |
Patrick, Thumper, Noticed your comments revthe PS90. I just happened to uncharacteristically make a total impulse buy last night. When you see the price, you may too. New Toy What really sealed the deal for me was the amazing engineering and simplicity of the thing, plus 50 rounds std capacity. http://youtu.be/SNYhC2p_RdI And now Federal is selling 5.7x28. Not crazy expensive, just regular expensive. Seems ideal for an SBR. Wish they sold them as pistols from the factory. Stupid gun laws. (Message edited by Blake on March 09, 2014) | ||
| Swampy |
Blake, I have had issue with the Federal 57 ammo, the bullet will run into the case when feeding. I have not had a problem with the FNH ammo. I have devised a collet crimp die for the 57 and started re-crimping the Federal ammo without issue, however...I have only about a thousand rounds left to do...LOL! On the other hand the ammo is really inexpensive to reload. You got a great price BTW! Now for optics! And it's not an impulse buy, my wife made me get two of them...(bragging) | ||
| Rick_a |
The PS90 and its cartridge are cool in concept but are just too funky for me. I like sticking with tried and true. I plugged in some ballistics data for my little 7" and it's no slouch. At 250 yards it's still at 38spl +p energy figures and the trajectory stays flat til just past 100 yards. There are a few expanding bullets on the market that work from the 2000 fps range so there is some potential there should the need arise. The velocity stays supersonic to nearly 500 yards so the accuracy should still be there if needed at farther than practical ranges. You've gotta respect a design that is well over 50 years old and still in mainstream use and evolving. It's also nice already having all the support gear as well. The main intent for this one is purely fun and I have a feeling it'll be just that. Congrats on the purchase, Blake. | ||
| Blake |
I agree Rick. I'm just a sucker for innovation and exceptional engineering. When I saw Jerry Miculek disassemble the thing almost by accident, I was sold. The Tavor is still on my list, but I'd like it in 7.62x51. I really appreciate the AR, what a piece of history. Same for the AK. Swampy, Gee, I just ordered a case of that Federal. I'm hoping for a different batch than yours! How much does the bullet sink into the case? | ||
| Blake |
The SBR version only added to the appeal. http://youtu.be/UpbTdJobH0Y | ||
| Rick_a |
You going to start "stamp collecting," Blake? Once I pick up my 1950's S&W revolver off layaway and get finished rebuilding my 1911 I'm going to be gunned out for a while. I just want to shoot and enjoy them. | ||
| Aesquire |
That's the local price too, but I'm not of the Aristocracy or their Servants here in The Imperial State. So can't have. The P90 is designed as a personal defense weapon for second line troops. Cooks, Artillery, Tankers, Truck drivers, etc. Also designed to defeat a given standard body armor. Works great for it's purpose, which is not going on patrol, sniping, or kicking doors. The P90 is a replacement for pistols and such is like the US M1 Carbine. Most military's don't want to bother with the level of training needed to turn high school kids into pistol experts. So the P90 makes sense, but didn't make the sale as the New NATO thing. ( nothing really did ) If the ,223 WAS a 300 yard round, and with the right ammo is now a 400 yard round, the 5.7 is a 250 yard round. Sorta. Opinions vary. Does a fine job on Alien hordes. Sifo, check out the Box-O-truth tests on drywall. I wouldn't count on fragmentation with .223 short or long barrel. lot's of fun & informative stuff there. | ||
| Rick_a |
With the right round, rifle, and shooter, 5.56 has been effectively used to 600 yards and beyond in combat...though its true niche is at closer ranges. 5.56/.223 and the AR-15 is very much my favorite rifle/caliber combination. Admittedly, the caliber I own most of is .177  I'm tempted to sell my AK and build a retro style AR-10. It's a shame the original design is mostly lost to history. I'm a sucker for antiquated stuff that works.  | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo, check out the Box-O-truth tests on drywall. I wouldn't count on fragmentation with .223 short or long barrel. lot's of fun & informative stuff there. It is very ammo specific. I figure that I'll select some candidates based on gelatin testing that is pretty easy to find, then drywall testing is pretty easy to do. Many of the bullets will not fragment at all. Ammo selection can be critical if you are looking for specific performance criteria. | ||
| Reepicheep |
That p90 does have a very clever design. I like it. | ||
| Sifo |
BTW, the Box-O-Truth, while a very interesting site to peruse, doesn't represent a good test of what I'm looking at for a couple of reasons. At least the test on wallboard I could find. First they stacked it very close together Even if it did fragment, there's little chance to tumble and slow down. This isn't representative of real world conditions. Probably more importantly though, they are testing military ball ammo. That wouldn't be high on my list of choices for what it can do to the bad guy, or what it hopefully won't do to my neighbor. It's just the wrong choice. A better test set up... http://how-i-did-it.org/drywall/results.html Winchester PDX1 would be a likely candidate to test on wallboard. No doubt there are other soft point and hollow point candidates that might do well. Wall board is cheap enough to test with, and never forget... Shootin' stuff is fun. | ||
| Greatlaker |
What are you guys buying these guns for??? Target practice at the range? Home defence? Just a cool toy to keep in the closet? I don't understand the appeal. | ||
| Aesquire |
Thanks Sifo, good info. I wonder what results you'll get with a pistol length barrel? Let us know. | ||
| Sifo |
I would be testing with my 18 incher.  | ||
| Macbuell |
What are you guys buying these guns for??? Target practice at the range? Home defence? Just a cool toy to keep in the closet? I don't understand the appeal. Of course you don't. | ||
| Sifo |
What are you guys buying these guns for??? So that we don't fall to tyranny like your country... http://www.torontosun.com/2014/03/05/rmps-arbitrar y-gun-ban-is-frightening | ||
| Reepicheep |
I enjoy operating them, and enjoy understanding their strengths and weaknesses. Just like most other machines I own (motorcycles, welders, table saws, Nexus 7 tablets, HP15C calculators, Mini Cooper S, etc.) Why wouldn't you enjoy one? They also might come in handy if one of the .0001% of the population that are pathological predators happens to cross paths with me. It is extremely unlikely to happen, but it does happen sometimes, and it's good to know I have a tool to address it if I find myself in that situation. It might come in handy if I ever find myself the target of an unjust and oppressive regime as well... it probably won't keep me alive, but it will let me drive up the cost of my death, which will be about my only option at that point. Again, pretty rare in history, but many millions of people have found themselves in that situation over the last 100 years alone. | ||
| Swampy |
Blake The bullet will drop into the case and the powder will dump out. Now saying that since I have a few thousand rounds through both guns they both work pretty good now with no malfunctions with all ammo | ||
| Blake |
Laker, For me the PS90 is almost all for the fun of it, kinda like my Ulysses. But it has excellent home defense capability. Once I've had my fun, it'll likely be traded for another new toy. | ||
| Macbuell |
Blake, a friend of mine once gave me good advice ... never sell land and never sell guns. Even if you get tired of it, you should still keep it. I imagine a few months later you'd be happy you did. | ||
| Greatlaker |
Sifo. There's not too much tyranny in Canada, but thanks for the over zealous hyperbole all the same. Blake answered my question the best. It's an interesting play thing, I can understand that. I just can't imagine such a weapon for personal defence. For target practice at the gun range it seems like a lot of overkill. l would prefer a simple revolver myself. | ||
| Aesquire |
Overkill? Not so, different skill set. You have to practice to be proficient. Ride once every 4 years and you won't be a very good rider, even if you once thought of yourself as decent. This isn't a hypothetical. I had serious issues just getting on the bike and could not bend my legs enough to put them on the pegs. On my Cyclone. Combination of injuries at work and medication side effects ( Simvistatin ) that took multiple years to heal up from. I'm much better now. But not 100%. I'll never get into Lotus position again. ( to be fair, I never was good at it ) So yeah, an AR, or Ak, or revolver, all require practice to be good. None are overkill, or underkill on paper targets. You might fail to knock down metal targets at range with too light a cartridge, and might not be allowed to shoot at those same targets with a .50 BMG Barrett, but that's physics, not philosophy. Reepicheep has well covered the reasons for having a, say, PS90, or AR style pistol. ( or flintlock from Last Of The Mohicans ) I was not a big fan of AR style pistols. Seemed silly to me, and not much fun. I now think that was ignorant of me, since my previous experience with rifle caliber pistols was with a legal AK style pistol of a buddies, and I didn't enjoy shooting it off hand & Duelist stance. Well, I enjoyed it a little, but the pain in the wrist and my lack of talent for such things made it more negative than positive. I'm also, for the same reasons, not a fan of "cruiser" style 12 ga. Shotguns. Ow. And I suck at them. ( if I was naturally talented with one, my opinion would change ) But now.... I know some more and am eager to try such guns. I may never get one, ( like I may never buy a Barrett ) but learning how to use one seems smart. Final answer? Guns, treated with respect, used safely and responsibly, by Citizens of the Republic, are fun no matter what size bullet or operating mechanism is used to reload. One of the most fun guns to shoot ever is a Flintlock muzzleloader. Real bad choice for an indoor range.  | ||
| Aesquire |
I just can't imagine such a weapon for personal defence. Actually it's nearly ideal. More accurate in most hands than a revolver, more range, far easier to train to use. Far easier. The P90 is in fact specifically designed for "personal Defense" as it was built for the PDW contract for NATO. ( Personal Defense Weapon ) Based on the well established fact that it's harder to train people who may never have seen a gun to shoot a rifle than a pistol. I'm not knocking revolvers. Even SAA "cowboy" guns are fun to shoot, and perfect for self defense. Worked great for over a century, after all. They suffer in comparison to later 19th & 20th century arms in reloading speed. So you are unlikely to see a Ruger Blackhawk winning ISPC competition. ( where reloading on the clock is part of the course ) Fortunately we have Cowboy Action Shooting competition built around the limitations of the 19th century Wild West arms. | ||
| Rick_a |
I've been into firearms all my life. It is one of my true passions. I have what I consider must haves. They all have practical uses as well as plain being fun. I have sold a few and replaced them with something I like better. It's all part of the experience. Canada has some of the most draconian gun laws in the world. There appears to be a fair bit of big government nanny state policies and politics in play. The fact that it goes unnoticed to the general public means it's a lost cause. That's what we're fighting here. There is no such thing as overkill. The police and military use the best small arms available. Those tools should be available to the average citizen in a free society. |
