| Author | Message | ||
     Crusty |
Putin answers Obama  | ||
| Fahren |
No one is kidding anyone about the rottenness of modern governments in any country. They all stink, and the balance between individual freedoms and collective authority is out of whack all across Europe and the US. It's like spending pages and pages of a web forum knocking the Dems vs the Rep's... they both stink. Aesquire, it's not a question of having class as a spy (James Bond has that one covered). It's about being smarter, so you don't get caught saying what is no doubt always said in state dept and diplomatic conversations in the back hall dealings (stuff like, "F... the EU"). | ||
| Hootowl |
Asking what a dead guy would do isn't exactly a serious question, as it can not be answered. Unless the answer is "rot some more". | ||
| Greatlaker |
Semantics are cute. The point is, Obama or Bush or Patton or whoever is hypothetically in charge of the United States has his hands tied as far as dealing with Russia over Ukraine. There is a lot of bitching on this board about Obama, it happens every day. But Obama isn't creating US policy on his own here, he has an entire compliment of professional and senior advisors who are guiding the process. It would be the same thing for GWB II when he was dealing with the Russian invasion of Georgia. Russia under Putin, for all intents and purposes, is unstable. Russia is a nuclear armed country. Escalating the situation with western military action in or close to Ukraine would be incendiary and provocational. Possibly lethal. It is my opinion that there is little that any American politician can do regardless of whatever political bent he comes from, that will influence the situation in Ukraine. I wish that was not the case. | ||
| Oldog |
he point is, Obama or Bush or Patton or whoever is hypothetically in charge of the United States has his hands tied as far as dealing with Russia over Ukraine. There is a lot of bitching on this board about Obama, it happens every day. But Obama isn't creating US policy on his own here, he has an entire compliment of professional and senior advisors who are guiding the process. obama May have a whole cadre of "professionals" to help "shape foreign policy", but based on their track record I would say they need to stick to shaping midpies. and leave policy to some one else } | ||
| Cataract2 |
*snicker*  | ||
| Aesquire |
Fahren I agree. Greatlaker I agree. A bit less bashing of the O and a bit less deflection of his criticism would be nice. I will point out that nazis are A real boogeyman in Russia. So a good way to whip up domestic support. . | ||
| Reindog |
Bam gave Putin the green light to commence aggression against the Ukrainian people. Bam and Hillary "reset" our Russian relations with a cute little red button. Bam told Medvedev to relay a message to Putin that Bam would be more flexible after he won reelection. Bam did not support the Iranian uprising in 2009. Bam refused a missile shield in Poland and the Czech Republic which would have sent a clear Reaganesque message to the New Russian Empire. Bam signed the New START treaty which gave the Russians everything while America got nothing. Bam did a world wide tour apologizing for the United States of America. Bam quits Iraq without any American presence. Bam supports the Muslim Brotherhood and then later drives Sisi into the arms of Russia for Russian arms. Bam "redlined" Syria and his bluff was called. Bam goes to a fundraiser while Americans are slaughtered in Benghazi and then covers it up. Bam surrenders to the Mullahs in Iran raising the certainty of the next Middle East war. Bam hates Israel and attempts to stoke an International boycott. Bam is in the process of surrendering Afghanistan. Bam culls the military of anyone who opposes him. Bam guts the US military. Bam does nothing when the Russian spy ship docks in Havana. The question should be, "Why wouldn't Putin invade his neighbors to expand the Empire?'. (Message edited by reindog on March 05, 2014) | ||
| Reindog |
The eloquence of greatlaker "demands" an explanation without offering one. Very Obamaesque. Most likely, Putin would not have moved against Ukraine if we had a strong American President. There would have been secret meetings between Putin People and Real American Diplomats in Sochi or in Moscow outlining the importance of standing down while saving face. Instead we are privileged to listen to the windbag Kerry who somehow believes we are in a debating society. Again, the question is why wouldn't Russia invade her neighbors in the face of perceived American weakness? | ||
| Sifo |
Semantics are cute. The point is, Obama or Bush or Patton or whoever is hypothetically in charge of the United States has his hands tied as far as dealing with Russia over Ukraine. There is a lot of bitching on this board about Obama, it happens every day. But Obama isn't creating US policy on his own here, he has an entire compliment of professional and senior advisors who are guiding the process. It would be the same thing for GWB II when he was dealing with the Russian invasion of Georgia. Russia under Putin, for all intents and purposes, is unstable. Russia is a nuclear armed country. Escalating the situation with western military action in or close to Ukraine would be incendiary and provocational. Possibly lethal. I guess there should be some clarification of the question. Are you asking what GWB would do if dropped into office today? Or are you asking what would be the situation had GWB been in office for the past 5 years? Very different questions. I really don't think GWB would have done the "reset" with Russia, getting nothing in return. GWB wouldn't have gone on a world apology tour. For 5 years now, BO has been photographed bowing to other foreign leaders. He is seen as a weak leader. In fact, for the most part he doesn't lead at all, on foreign or domestic situations. Therein lies the problem. The bully is always looking for who can easily be bullied. They will almost always avoid even trying to bully a strong leader. Now if the question is what would GWB do if suddenly dropped into the current situation, no doubt his hands would be quite tied. I would think that he would have been in contact with the major players of Europe much quicker than BO has done. This is their back yard. What the heck are they doing? I really hope they aren't waiting for leadership from the US at this point. BTW, I saw that Russia snubbed John Kerry by simply not showing up. Sounds like Putin is shaking in his boots. | ||
| Reindog |
Imagine this cartoon with President Ronald Reagan in it.  | ||
| Xdigitalx |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/US_missile_defense_co mplex_in_Poland | ||
| Xdigitalx |
I would imagine Reagan in his hunting attire, would have some very smart (vicious looking) bear hunting dogs along side him. | ||
| Reindog |
Continued weakness puts these independent nations at risk: Armenia Azerbaijan Belarus Estonia Georgia Kazakhstan Kyrgyzstan Latvia Lithuania Moldova Russia Tajikistan Turkmenistan Ukraine What is to be done? * Freeze Russian assets. * Suspend Russian from G8. * Immediately approve the Keystone pipeline to provide a strategic source of energy to Europe if and when Russia continues its expansion. * Bring the anti-missile systems into Poland and the Czech Republic. * Send US warships into the Baltic Sea. * Extend EU membership to Ukraine immediately. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
No. He opened the worlds eyes to what a brutal and secretive nation of spying interfering meddling feckers America is. Rocket, I hate to rain on your parade but your fellow countrymen are neck deep in this spying. Their physical bodies are currently occupying space over at Meade. Besides your obvious ignorance of the facts, you have some nerve calling the U.S. a nation of "spying interfering meddling feckers". The United Kingdom takes first place among democracies when it comes to spying and controlling their own citizens. I'm surprised you don't have cameras installed in your lavatories to monitor the volume and content of bodily waste so the proper tax can be accessed. Furthermore, whenever the U.S. does take to meddling your country is right there beside us. (Message edited by ferris_von_bueller on March 05, 2014) | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Oh pardon me for not including the UK in the meddling feckers list. They most certainly are on it. I just assumed you understood I don't take patriotism as a fanatical pastime, and as patriots go, I wouldn't swear blind allegiance to my country knowing the corruption of power and distribution of wealth has little to do with politics for the people. And I'm certainly not ignorant to some of the so called facts bantered around the media trail. The glaringly obvious fact being Snowden's leak of GCHQ's bung from the US puppet masters. http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/ame ricans-pay-gchq-100m-to-spy-for-them-leaked-nsa-pa pers-from-edward-snowden-claim-8743775.html Frankly there's only one RIGHT post in all of this topic, and that is Matt's (Trojan) earlier today. Rocket in England | ||
| Hootowl |
Matt's post did make a whole lot of sense. | ||
| Reindog |
Trojan, Your point is well taken. However, how far are you willing to appease Putin if he continues to chip away at former SSRs? What about former Warsaw Pact nations? This is reminiscent of Hitler, and human behavior has not changed a whit since 3,000 BC and probably not before that. Empire building is like Chinese food. A half hour later, you are ready for some more. How far are you willing to appease Mr. Putin? We need an American Churchill big time. Our Jimmy Obama is making matters worse. | ||
| Oldog |
Jimmy Obama You insult Carter He is a decent human being, just a crappy politician, Jimmy in his advancing age was building houses for Habitat for humanity,( after being prez,) and I doubt his admin was any where near as corrupt or incompetent as the clown prince of stupid's is. } | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
GCHQ's bung from the US puppet masters Would you prefer to be China's bitch? Fact is, your country gave up being great years ago and as such has been reduced to being "our" bitch but fret not the U.S. is on a similar path to mediocrity. Fortunately for GB the U.S. is relatively benign but I doubt China will be as kind. The world isn't full of unicorns and sugar plum fairies. It's Darwin - survival of the fittest. It may be sugar-coated on the surface but in reality it's closer to Mad Max. So, yea, I'm a patriot. I believe in taking care of your own and if that means someone has to suffer so that we don't - so be it. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Rocket - Frankly there's only one RIGHT post in all of this topic, and that is Matt's (Trojan) earlier today. Trojan - Anyone who thinks we should go to war over this with Russia is bonkers Did I miss a post because I haven't heard anyone call for direct military engagement with Russia. | ||
| Slaughter |
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| Greatlaker |
Ferris. Your comments to Rocket regarding "Americas bitch" are repugnant. I strongly doubt that if Rocket was standing in front of you that you would have the balls to say such a thing. I think an apology is in order. | ||
| Aesquire |
I did suggest that Patton was right. But that was 1945. Today a military attack on Russia? I haven't seen a reason. I don't have an opinion on the players in Ukraine. ....... do not know enough to have one. That is why I started this mess. To get better data. | ||
| Greatlaker |
"Patriotism as a fanatical pastime. Nail on the head Rocket. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Ferris. Your comments to Rocket regarding "Americas bitch" are repugnant/ ???? Perhaps,I wasn't clear. I wasn't calling Rocket my bitch. I was calling Great Britain America's bitch. I think he basically called GB the same when he referred to the U.S. as GCHQ's " puppet master". I think it's fairly clear to the common observer that Great Britain occupies the subservient position in regards to it's relationship with the U.S. and has so since WW2. GB squandered their greatness and people such as you are helping to do the same to the U.S. | ||
| Reindog |
ummm.... greatlaker is from the upper United States.  | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Ah, Canada. They are part of the cabal, too. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Greatlaker, if it makes you feel any better the U.S. and Canada will be China's bitch if things continue on this path. | ||
| Hootowl |
We already are |
