| Author | Message | ||
     Ferris_von_bueller |
Please educate me on what the proper american response should be to the Russian presence in Ukraine. To immediately invade Syria and relieve Russia of their naval refueling port. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Cameron's response Monday according to The Guardian. http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/mar/03/crime a-crisis-david-cameron-sanctions-russia-ukraine Better perhaps, but still a day late and a lot of hearsay. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/u kraine/10674503/Ukraine-crisis-UK-prepares-to-rule -out-sanctions-on-Russia-amid-threat-to-global-eco nomy.html Rocket in England | ||
| Sifo |
One thing that I'm quite certain that GWB would NOT be doing during this, is threatening to cut the US military to pre-WWII levels. Think there may be just a bit of connection between us cutting our military strength, and our adversaries flexing their muscle? This is also the time to be talking to other world leaders to ensure a unified front. BO hasn't exactly developed the best of relations with our traditional allies. Despite the complaints about GWB, the reality is that he spent a great deal of time working with other leaders in resolving world problems. BO tends to talk down to, and lecture them instead. Would we even be here under GWB? Hard to say. It's still just a hypothetical, so it really doesn't matter. You deal with conflicts with the leadership you have. Right now that's BO, and Putin has handed him his ass. That's our current reality. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
If GWB was president,... Putin probably would not have invaded in the first place. Being that GWB liberated Kuwait and Iraq... Putin would have thought twice before invading Ukraine. Putin knows Obama is a pushover. That's what I think. Obama will be the reason for all America's problems for next 2 decades. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Gotta love Rumsfeld...he speaks his mind http://therightscoop.com/rumsfeld-obama-saying-us- standing-with-intl-community-is-like-having-both-f eet-firmly-planted-in-mid-air/ | ||
| Court |
First of all . . . . you are welcome to your opinion. Just don't, going ahead, state it as fact. By choosing your words more carefully, you'll help us all as we navigate the road to enlightenment. Your question confounds me . . .not you, but the question. I'm torn between saying, out of fear that once again he'll do something stupid, that obama should do something . . and lamenting, knowing it's what will happen, that he does nothing. The first thing he did, when he came in office, was this stupid "Russian Reset" policy whereby, in consideration for not a damn thing, he removed all the economic sanctions the Bush administration had imposed when Russian invaded Georgia. Letting Putin off the hook was the first sign, to a watching world, that this neighborhood organizer was way out of his league. He may, while stoned most the time, have been carried through Columbia, the world is less forgiving. Then he did, and perhaps you can explain it to me, that little stunt where he caved on the missile defense systems for the Poles and the Czechoslovakians. Riddle me that one Bat Man . . . . I mean, without so much as giving then a dingy-ding-ding and a heads up. Putin, by violating a sovereign country, violated both the spirit and intent of international law. The pres in charge, predictably, started looking to see who would lead. The UK told him to pound salt . . . the French (ya gotta love them) supported "canceling a couple meetings" . . . (that'll scare Putin . . and the big o . .spent an hour on the phone with Angela Merkel of Germany today . . . no joy . . Germany, who gets much of their energy from Russia . . . told the big guy he's, once again, on his own. I suppose if you've got an opinion, I'm entitled to one to . . .obama is a laughing stock among world leaders. He had the chance (he never leads, he waits to see what the polls indicate he should do) to invoke sanctions and pretty much blew it. The guy is a ••••••• idiot (that's an opinion so I'll invoke you logic when I say it must be right) | ||
| Reepicheep |
The only thin Obama has done strategically with regards to Russia is issue a full and total surrender before the game even started. Could a Republican do more with the cards on the table? I don't know. But I think a smarter leader (D or R) would have had more pieces on the board at this point in the game than Obama has managed. he threw them away for nothing, and now that we need them, we have no credibility. | ||
| Greatlaker |
Court. You are going to have to explain to me what I stated as fact that offended you. Fill me in. I didn't state anything as a fact. I stated my opinion. I found this article which I found interesting. I would like to hear your input. http://www.forbes.com/sites/louiswoodhill/2014/03/ 03/its-time-to-drive-russia-bankrupt-again/ Lets hope that the U.S. dollar can get properly stabilized sooner rather than later. Are you still holding gold Court? | ||
| Fahren |
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| Sifo |
Lets hope that the U.S. dollar can get properly stabilized sooner rather than later. Ummmm... Have you noticed the direction of things in recent years? | ||
| Aesquire |
Well, if Patton was President things sure would be different! The question "what would GWB do/do better/would suck as bad" is purely rhetorical, because it didn't happen and never shall. In context, it comes out as a "defense" of Obama's policies.... without in any way offering a defense. Instead, it's a tired and dishonest way of covering for a lack of justification, explanation and/or logic behind your guy's actions. If you think the O has the situation figured out and support his actions and reasoning, by ALL MEANS make the case. Please. I'd far rather he has an ace up his sleeve and is a freaking genius that will save thousands of lives, save the economy, lower the price of oil, and heck, Cure Cancer....... than gain some fleeting and easily forgotten political point for the R party in an election half a year plus away. Screw the politics. Nothing awesome or crappy Barry does is going to matter in US politics in a year. Greatlaker, Interesting Forbes article. The Writer sees through his own lens, as a money guy, but he may be right especially on the essentials. Not sure if Regan's monetary policy was more important than the technological surprise of military tech. ( the threat of stealth forced ruinous spending on counter measures ) But as a strategy to combat Russion Imperialism, subtle economic warfare may be the smart way. Downside might be a desperate & poorer Russia, which presents problems for the future. Remember, it was ruinous war reparations, and economic punishment for WW1 that set up Germany for WW2. Poor, resentful, and desperate is not how you want another. (Message edited by aesquire on March 04, 2014) | ||
| Xdigitalx |
I wonder if Snowden gave Putin some classified tips? | ||
| Aesquire |
Ferris, I like your Syrian idea. Needs some additional thought, but I kinda like it. Could we make keeping the Syrian Port facility a condition for a more peaceful resolution of the Crimean invasion? Would the economic possibilities mentioned in the link above work together with that? And, who the heck IS there in Ukraine that will deal ( in multiple ways ) with the Russians? Russia wants the old Prez back in power. Can Ukraine survive taking him back, ( corrupt murderer who will sell out to Russia for putting him back in power ) or survive NOT taking him back? While you bitch about retired US presidents, Bombers are being fueled. Priorities. | ||
| Greatlaker |
Aesquire. "Well, if Patton was President things sure would be different!" How so? Please elaborate. What would Patton do? "The question "what would GWB do/do better/would suck as bad" is purely rhetorical, because it didn't happen and never shall. " I would choose to disagree with you here Aesquire. Russia invaded Georgia while Bush II was president and the United States did little in that situation also. History has proven that George W. Bush was as weak and as ineffectual as Obama when dealing with Putin and Russia. There is no rhetoric, there is historic fact. When Russia feels threatened by the events that occur in immediate neighbouring countries, Russia responds with military force, to curtail or extinguish the perceived threat. There is no rhetoric. The question is whether Ukraine and her citizens are going to go to war over the sovereignty of Crimea or whether they will succeed that part of their country to Russia. The west can talk about sanctions to Russia and how best to implement them to hurt Putin the most but none of that will matter. Ultimately, Ukrainians will decide whether or not their country will be divided and whether or not they are willing to die fighting Russians for it's ultimate sovereignty. No pontificating about whether Obama is good or bad or what Patton would do is going to change the ultimate result of this matter. Probably a lot of people are going to die. It would be folly to want any western government to intervene more than what has presently been tabled. Any greater response would require a financial and perhaps a military toll that I doubt the citizens of Europe and the United States want to willingly pay for. | ||
| Blake |
Bush was putting missile defense in Poland and the Czech Republic, two strong allies to America. Obama catered to Putin and stopped the efforts. He got nothing in return. Fail2. | ||
| Blake |
>>> 6 Trillion dollar interventions of Bush, Cheney and Rumsfield in Iraq and Afghanistan Evidence of either how ignorant or how deeply dishonest you are. I'm assuming ignorance. You seem like a nice guy. Be careful who you listen to. | ||
| Greatlaker |
I don't think I'm dishonest Blake. Perhaps you are the ignorant one here. It was the first Google link that came up when you Google "cost of Iraq/Afghan war"' Maybe your Google referenced wisdom is better than mine. http://www.globalresearch.ca/us-wars-in-afghanista n-iraq-to-cost-6-trillion/5350789 These guys say its about 3 Trillion. "According to a Congressional Budget Office (CBO) report published in October 2007, the U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan could cost taxpayers a total of $2.4 trillion by 2017 when counting the huge interest costs because combat is being financed with borrowed money. The CBO estimated that of the $2.4 trillion long-term price tag for the war, about $1.9 trillion of that would be spent on Iraq, or $6,300 per U.S. citizen." This link is interesting. I couldn't make much sense of the numbers. http://nationalpriorities.org/cost-of/ Blake. I would appreciate if you could enlighten me with what the actual costs of the war in Iraq and Afghanistan are. What information do you have? Either way you cut it, anything more than a trillion dollars is a lot. | ||
| Alfau |
Flake.. your deluded. Gay armies/countries have historically been defeated. Italy once ruled the world , until they lost sight of what made them superior.. | ||
| Geedee |
"The economic cooperation between Ukraine and Moscow was something Washington was determined to sabotage at all costs. This drama is far from over. The stakes involve the very future of Russia, the EU-Russian relations, and the global power of Washington, or at least that faction in Washington that sees further wars as the prime instrument of policy." http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2014/03/03/the-rap e-of-ukraine-phase-two-begins/ http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2014/02/18/us-and- eu-are-paying-ukrainian-rioters-protesters/ http://www.corbettreport.com/?powerpress_pinw=8788 -podcast | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
I wonder if Snowden gave Putin some classified tips? No. He opened the worlds eyes to what a brutal and secretive nation of spying interfering meddling feckers America is. Rocket in England | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
Engdahl knows more than most. Great link Geedee. http://www.boilingfrogspost.com/2014/03/03/the-rap e-of-ukraine-phase-two-begins/ Rocket in England | ||
| Aesquire |
Patton would conquer Russia. Rule it with a viceroy and bring peace to Europe. Queen Victoria would send cavalry. To be slaughtered in the valley of death. Neither existed in today's world. LBJ would screw it up like he did Vietnam. Your question is by nature dishonest. Thanks for the different perspective Rocket. | ||
| Trojan |
Maybe a bit of history will put this into context. Crimea has been part of Russia since 1783, when they annexed it from the collapsing Ottoman Empire. It only became part of the Ukraine as a purely administrative decision in 1954 when the Ukraine was firmly part of the Soviet Union, when nobody thought it would ever become an independant state in its own right again. Since 1991, when the Ukraine has been an independant state, Crimea has operated as an autonomous republic and elected its own president until relatively recently when the new western backed Ukrainian government didn't like its 'Russian-ness' and decied to appoint Crimeas president rather than have the populace elect one. 60% of the population are either ethnic Russian or Russian citizens (with a minority of Muslim Tartars). Anyone who thinks we should go to war over this with Russia is bonkers, and has obviously no concept of what a war would do to the region or even the world. The ONLY solution to this is to negotiate a peaceful separation of Crimea from Ukraine, either as a separate nation state or as part of the Russian Federation. I don't agree with Putins methods in this at all, but we are not going to solve it by tub thumping and threats by politicians looking for media exposure and TV 'bytes'. | ||
| Aesquire |
Jimmie Carter would have boycotted the Olympics. If you want to defend Obama's actions, defend them. Sure, Obama inherited GWB's world. We had allies, formed coalitions. GWB inherited Clinton's world. Clinton's actions set up 9/11/2001. Then his minion stole & destroyed documents about that. Clinton inherited...... This is nearsighted domestic politics and not germane. ...opened the worlds eyes to what a brutal and secretive nation of spying interfering meddling feckers Obama's America is. tiny clarification. Nations spy on one another. Europe is the home of the most murderous wars, and ideologies so we'd better spy on it. Gotta have some class doing so. Obama's minions say F the EU. Didn't help. | ||
| Torquehd |
Rocket, do you think America is the only nation whose government collects information on citizens, foreign and domestic? And being from Britain, you can certainly not point your finger at America and accuse us of "meddling" without having three fingers pointing back at yourself. (Message edited by torquehd on March 05, 2014) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Don't kid yourself about the UK and EU Rocket. | ||
| Greatlaker |
Aesquire. I was asking you what Patton would do in the present day military scenario with Russia in regards to Ukraine and you offered up some pithy little fantasy about what Patton would have done circa WW2????? I would like to have some serious dialogue here about Ukraine please and how best to resolve the issue with or without military intervention. Not your little fantasy meanderings as you contemplate Patton or Queen Victoria from another era. If you have some armchair quarterback solutions for the situation in Ukraine I would genuinely like to hear them, otherwise please lets not sully the board with hyperbolic crap. Rocket. Thank you for providing the links you supplied. They are thought provoking indeed. I have a very hard time imagining that ultra nationalist, para military groups in Ukraine would be supported by the United States. It's too bad there was not more transparency in this situation for a clearer picture of the ultimate scope of the conflict. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
I guess we should all now stop, think...and thank every democrat for helping elect the bumbling idiot of a President we have now, and allowing Putin on the Ritz... If it were McCain,... or Romney... the show would not go on. Thank you.  | ||
| Aesquire |
And GWB isn't from another era? Which GWB? 2003's or 2007's? He is not or ever will again be in charge so he's not the point...... unless you think he would have a brilliant answer. | ||
| Pwnzor |
you offered up some pithy little fantasy about what Patton would have done circa WW2????? To be fair, you implanted the idea of Patton being alive today, which is by nature a fantasy. |
