| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
BTW, shooting anything with an exposed hammer from your pocket is likely to do nothing but get your weapon tangled in the lining of your pocket. | ||
| Fb1 |
LCR and SP101 aren't much wider than a Glock or XD. Glock width is 1.18 inches. Chiappa Rhino is 1.25 inches at the widest part. LCR and SP101 are even thinner. The XDs is about .9 inches. I just mic'd the fleet. LCR cylinder diameter: 1.28" M&P 9mm (full-size and compact) slide width (maximum): 1.08" M&P 9mm Shield slide width (maximum): 0.90" Dang, this is as bad as talking contact patches... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If you can discern .28 inches in your carry weapon, you're a better man than I. Most don't carry chambered, cocked, and unsaftied. Any one of these could mean you lose the race for your life. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Also, something to consider. You are personally responsible for every round you let off the chain. I'll take my well placed 6 over a flurry of 18. | ||
| Rick_a |
The Rhino is a big gun. The LCR is much smaller, and can be easily carried in the pocket or on the ankle. Not so the Rhino. While the cylinder of a five shot shot revolver has some width, the rest of the gun is thin and svelte, whereas a subcompact double stack auto (such as the popular baby Glock) is big and blocky all over. | ||
| Sifo |
Most don't carry chambered, cocked, and unsaftied. I wouldn't either, unless the weapon was designed for that. The XD series actually needs two automatic safeties to be engaged. On on the backstrap and on in the trigger. Even then you have a fairly long trigger pull. If you can discern .28 inches in your carry weapon, you're a better man than I. XDs at .90 vs LCR at 1.28? That's an extra 30%. I think that's noticeable. Still, it wasn't my major consideration. I'll take my well placed 6 over a flurry of 18. XDs is only 7+1. No doubt I would want to hit what I shoot at. I was after all considering a 5 shot revolver. Just because you have more ammo doesn't mean you have to pray and spray. | ||
| Fb1 |
Most don't carry chambered, cocked, and unsaftied. I'd wager than MOST folks who carry a semi-auto do so with it chambered and cocked. It's the safety thing, however - there's a difference between manual safeties and built-in "internal" safeties. [EDIT: I think "passive" safeties would be a good description.] Two of my M&P's don't have manual safeties, but they ALL have internal safeties, as, I think, do most semi-autos do today. So although I don't carry with a manual safety engaged, the pistols are still "drop-safe" (or accidental fire-safe, and yes, I know: nothing is ever absolute) because of the internal safeties. Also, as Sifo mentions, there's a fairly long trigger pull, just like on your LCR or your Rhino, and the trigger itself has its own safety, unlike your LCR or your Rhino. You are personally responsible for every round you let off the chain. Yep. I'll take my well placed 6 over a flurry of 18. I'll take my well-placed 1 over your flurry of 6.  Nobody mentioned unleashing a barrage of lead. I just like having the extra chances, is all. Doesn't mean I will use them, or HAVE to use them. But if I need them, they're there. We're on the same side, amigo, we just do it a little different. Same as our motorcycles. The LCR is much smaller, and can be easily carried in the pocket or on the ankle. The LCR is incredibly light, too. The trade-off is felt recoil because of so little mass, but for it's intended purpose, it's a fair trade-off IMO. XDs at .90 vs LCR at 1.28? That's an extra 30%. I think that's noticeable. Sounds like the Shield and the XDs are the same width. My Shield looks and FEELS narrow compared to my LCR. Because, relatively speaking, it is. Just because you have more ammo doesn't mean you have to pray and spray. Amen. (Message edited by fb1 on January 20, 2014) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
One additional consideration is that my wife wasn't strong enough to work the slide consistently. I wanted a weapon she felt confident using when I left it for her while I travel. She knows where it is and can shoot it accurately even in pitch darkness. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I don't care what you carry. Just carry! I was never a fan of wheel guns. Now, they just work for me. I traded an H&k USP COMPACT for the Rhino. Couldn't be happier. | ||
| Blake |
That Chiapa Rhino is a really neat handgun. Zero muzzle flip. Give it the LCR treatment (lighter, smaller, & smoother) and it'd be a bonafide world beater for concealed carry in a revolver. | ||
| M1combat |
I can't wait to get a Rhino... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
You will love it. The only complaint I have is that because of the internal mechanicals the trigger is pretty firm. It's not S&W smooth. It's a 13-14.5lb trigger that doesn't like short stroking. You can create some cylinder cycling errors if you aren't deliberate. Once you get used to that, it's all good. One thing I do like about the trigger is that it's WIDE! It's at least a 1/3" across if not a little more. I've never seen a trigger that is wider. The super low bore axis makes it a real pleasure to shoot. 357s are fun because you get all the bark and none of the bite! | ||
| Rick_a |
That is incorrect. Revolvers have built in safeties, too, such as hammer blocks/safety bars, and they are engineered so that the hammer can't reach the firing pin/primer unless the trigger is pulled fully to the rear. It's been that way for some 100 years or so. It's technically a fallacy that revolvers have no safeties. A few are less so, but those are generally replicas of old designs and usually single actions. | ||
| Rick_a |
...and I have no problem carrying larger guns, as well. I consider the little 'uns backup...  20131111_021647_LLS by Slick_Rick77, on Flickr ...though I consider what is carried secondary to one's proficiency with it. | ||
| Fb1 |
That is incorrect. I was referring to the trigger itself, not the trigger group as an assembly; I should have been clearer.  Image source: http://www.bluesheepdog.com/smith-wesson-mp-for-la w-enforcement/ | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
though I consider what is carried secondary to one's proficiency with it. Troof. My buddy and I took his co-worker and his co-worker's wife shooting. From that trip they purchased a Rhino and an AR and both attended an AR tactical class. While they were proficient with the operation of their new weapons, he racked up $100 worth of carrier strikes at the range ($25 for each hit). Perfect practice makes perfect.} | ||
| Sifo |
That is incorrect. Revolvers have built in safeties, too, such as hammer blocks/safety bars, and they are engineered so that the hammer can't reach the firing pin/primer unless the trigger is pulled fully to the rear. While those are "safety" devices, they are not what is considered a safety. The safety is typically known as a manual switch that blocks the trigger from being pulled. Revolvers typically have no such device. Many new pistol designs have various versions of safety switches that are turned off when the gun is gripped correctly and/or the trigger being properly depressed, as well as the hammer blocks/safety bars that are in revolvers. | ||
| Rick_a |
There are manual, active, and passive safeties. They are all safeties. Just because some are touted as safety implements and others are largely ignored makes no difference. All that little trigger safety does on "safe action" pistols is prevent the gun from firing from trigger inertia if dropped on the back end. Any gun will fire with a finger on the trigger.  The true safety is between your ears. | ||
| Sifo |
Any gun will fire with a finger on the trigger. Odd, my 1911, Winchester .308 and my AR-15 won't let me pull the trigger when the safety is on. They must not be working correctly.  | ||
| Bob_thompson |
The only safety you ever need is the one between your ears. | ||
| Rick_a |
Any safety device, no matter how it is implemented, is only as safe as its user. | ||
| Rick_a |
That was my point, in case you missed it. | ||
| Sifo |
Not missed.  | ||
| Ourdee |
I knew a guy years ago that was faster at shooting than he was at drawing. Put another way, he pulled the trigger before the pistol cleared the holster. Even in his stupidity he kept a little luck. He has two scars on his right calf, one six inches below the other. The bullet missed the veins and bone, making a clean hole. Very lucky for having shot himself with a .44 magnum. My lesson I took away was; where the muzzle is pointed (even while drawing) is very important. While everyone should know to not sweep their family, how many sweep their selves? | ||
| Aesquire |
For terminologies sake, let us say a safety switch that must be deliberately activated to get a gun to function is a "manual safety", ( like on a 1911 ) while the Glock "safe action" and all other trigger, grip, firing pin etc. safeties that are transparent to the user are a "built in safety" As opposed to "automatic safeties" that some double & single barrel break action shotguns have that require you to flip a switch to fire after reloading, even if you just flipped the switch and fired the gun. The act of "breaking" the action resets the safety switch to "safe". Some like this, others rabidly do not. Once upon a time, there were 3 rules. They added one when I wasn't looking, and it's not bad, but sad that obvious needed a rule. Various ways to say this, so I'll be simple. and Not even number them. Always assume a gun is loaded. ( It's safe to say that most AD's happen with an "empty gun" that wasn't ) Never point a gun at anything you aren't willing to destroy. Never put your finger in the trigger guard or on the trigger until you are ready to fire. And the one they added on me.... Always be sure of your target and the backdrop behind it. Good point above. Blowback semiauto pistols, like some .380's many .32 ACP's and most .22LR's have a stuff recoil spring that must take the whole force of the "bang". This makes them harder to cycle the action, and a lot of smaller, older and/or broken people just don't have the hand strength to do it safely. Some locked action semi's are too stiff for many too. Revolvers don't have that problem. Generally. The trigger and cylinder release are usually easy enough for most folk. However, for accurate shooting the trigger pull must be gentle enough to not require the majority of the person's strength to operate. The harder it is to pull, subjectively, and as a percentage of available power, the more muscle shake will manifest. This is one place where the Ruger LCR is pretty good. The usually taboo-to-mention reason for using a revolver is they don't leave empty cases laying around. While any law abiding Citizen will stick around after using a gun for self defense.... if only to make sure the police have a good report, there are occasional unlikely cases where leaving the scene is needful for safety reasons. Flood, fire, riot... I'm sure you can think of a very few. In those rare cases, unless you dumped cases while reloading, Revolvers don't litter. Which is nice. ( and you are of course going to contact authorities after you reach safety and a phone. ) | ||
| Rick_a |
There's no such thing as an AD. ND is the proper term. A double action trigger pull is more about technique than strength. Of course, for those with weak hands and/or less experience, a lighter pull is always a benefit. Empty cases would be the least of my concerns... | ||
| Sifo |
One thing I've been doing lately with my revolver at the range is to load a couple of spent casings, and 4 live rounds. The give the cylinder a spin before closing it so I have no idea when I'll hit the duds. If you have a flinch at all, this exercise will show it to you. This exercise is possible to do with a pistol, but more of a hassle. While I find a pistol to be superior in many ways, revolvers still have certain advantages. There is no one tool that's best for all things. Revolvers are great for keeping your brass all together for reloading too. Damn pistols throw brass everywhere! | ||
| Aesquire |
The empty case thing is both hypothetical, and a real benefit to reloaders. ( which doesn't really apply when it's a life or death situation, but does the rest of the time ) ND?? non-intended discharge? ( unfamiliar jargon.... Norman, coordinate ) As to technique vs. strength.... Hmm. I agree, it's largely a matter of technique. ( lasers can really help this in training ) But if you're close to giving it all you got, accuracy suffers. A 13 pound one finger pull is probably "easy" for folk that use 2 fingers on the brake of their bikes. I know several people who've damaged their fingers enough for that to be a problem. Mechanics, Framers, building trades, machine shops, you get the picture. Remember that scene in "Jaws" where the guys are comparing scars? See it in real life, a lot. The Prez of Ruger noticed at gun shows that ladies ( and men ) would walk up to look at a snub nosed revolver, try the trigger, and walk away unhappy. So his priority was to get a good trigger on the new revolver. They did a good job. The Rhino is a beautiful gun like a Rhino is a beautiful animal. ( IMHO ) It might look weird, but it means business. It may be the first successful "lower barrel" revolver. ( not counting the LaMat with the shotgun barrel below the regular one ) I haven't tried one, want to. I've read that the complexity of inverting part of the internal mechanism to hammer the low chamber required some new ideas. It's a complex Mother. How they worked the leverage on cocking the hammer leads to a heavy, but smooth, trigger pull. Logic tells me that shrinking that mechanism down would make it stiffer, just as it does in regular Double Action designs. The sweet spot in trigger pull weight depends on a number of factors. It's widely considered a bad idea to use a very light trigger on a close quarters rapid response weapon. Partly because folk often are touching the trigger when they shouldn't be, and because fine motor skills may be compromised when your adrenal gland just went "squirrrrt!". Too heavy is bad too. ( as I argue above ) The Rhino, with proper practice, should be fine, but I would put that near the high end I'd prefer. How many pounds do you think is "right"?? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
My wife can consistently hit headship sized groups at 7 yards with the Rhino. It's heavier than others, but not unmanageable. | ||
| Rick_a |
Negligent is the word. I like a 4.5lb single action on pistols, a 3.5 is just fine on rifles, and for a double action I'm a lot less picky. Anything from 9 to 12lbs is good so long as it's a smooth pull. I still haven't found a striker fired gun with a trigger I agree with, or one that I've enjoyed shooting. I may build a 10mm at some point, but that's leaning more towards a longslide 1911 than custom Glock. |
