| Author | Message | ||
     Fb1 |
Yeah, I was reffering to the factory laser option... BTW, the *factory-installed* laser on the LCRs is, indeed, the Crimson Trace. Here's a link to Ruger's LCR "Models" page - note that the only grip options are Hogue or CT: http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/models.html | ||
| Fb1 |
Pic of the on/off switch recessed into the butt of the CT grip:  Image source: http://www.gunblast.com/Ruger-LCR2.htm The "image source" link above will take you to a very nice review of the LCR .38 written by Jeff Quinn of GunBlast.com, including lotsa pix.  | ||
| Sifo |
Thanks FB1. If I were interested in a laser, that's pretty close to exactly how I would like things to work. | ||
| Sifo |
BTW, I so so unimpressed with the stock LCR laser, I never even looked to see who made it. | ||
| Aesquire |
Lasermax is a local company. Nice folk and a great product. Their guide rod laser is the cleanest install ever, but doesn't get much press. I have their older Rem 870 light laser. Perfect if heavy. Pity it's not legal for deer. iirc. The crimson trace activation switch is pretty ytransparent to the user. You can choose not to activate it until needed......but turning it on is automatic with a firing grip. ( unless you switch it off as described above) I haven't tried the forward mounted lasers available for the LCR. They add zero to the width profile and perfect for pocket holster carry if you like the ergos. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.lasermax.com/ http://www.crimsontrace.com/ http://www.insighttechnology.com/ Some questions on why S&W went to the Insight instead of CT lasers... http://www.defensivecarry.com/forum/defensive-carr y-guns/129671-why-did-crimson-trace-lose-s-w-contr act.html Gun forums are just like cycle forums...  As I oft say, "where the switches are and how they work" is important. What works for one does not work for the next. My first experience with laser sights was when the American 180 rep came to the Rochester PD to show off his new toys. The American 180 .22LR subgun, and the new laser sight. It was the size of a modern high power tactical scope, ( and heavy as heck ) mounted under the barrel with heavy clamps, and a battery pack you wore on your belt that massed more than a Dirty Harry .44. With a cord. And a glass tube inside. OTOH the movies he had were awesome, and the poster he gave the RPD was of a "perp" in a dark alley with a gun being confronted by an officer with the laser equipped Rifle. Nice 1" dot on his chest at about 10 yards. My first hands on experience was at Proline gun shop in Victor NY. One of the salesmen offered to let me try dry firing his S&W snubby with the CT laser grips. ( first making sure I was the only customer, and then clearing the gun ) I cleared the gun, aimed at his designated target, and watched the dot dance. If there's a better biofeedback tool than a laser to teach steadiness & trigger control, I don't know what it is. It was incredibly frustrating, at first. They may not work in bright light, and they may have other flaws, but a laser is a very valuable tool. ( the CT laser grips sometimes don't work for folk with fat fingers, the index knuckle may block the beam, and you may need to de-burr the plastic if it bugs you.... but what is perfect? ) | ||
| Fb1 |
BTW, I so so unimpressed with the stock LCR laser, I never even looked to see who made it. I'm confused. The stock laser for the LCR is made by Crimson Trace. | ||
| Sifo |
The stock laser for the LCR is made by Crimson Trace. Nope.  | ||
| Rick_a |
The LCR is commonly sold with the CTC grip as well. It's actually more common than the Lasermax as a factory option. One thing that's not readily seen on the S&W Lasergrip is that the top half of the grip backstrap is rubber with a hollow backing. It really makes shooting the gun comfortable for a short and thin boot style grip. The LCR Lasergrip just has a hard rubber coating on the back. I found it odd that the same company makes such different grips for similar guns. | ||
| Fb1 |
Nope. Ah, so. That's a "TALO Exclusive" LCR shown in your screen grab:
That is indeed a LaserMax laser installed on an LCR, but it is not the stock laser for an LCR. I provided a link to Ruger's LCR "Models" page earlier; it shows Hogue or Crimson Trace grips as the only factory options: http://www.ruger.com/products/lcr/models.html | ||
| Fb1 |
Here's a link to Ruger's LCR "Distributor Exclusive" page, showing two versions of the LCR available with the LaserMax, but only thru TALO: http://www.ruger.com/products/lcrDE/models.html All that aside, I'm with you: I think the Crimson Trace laser, specifically in terms of its method of activation, is the way to go. It's simple, intuitive, and I find that I can easily turn on or off the laser with just a slight pressure change from my middle finger. Peace. | ||
| Aesquire |
For two different lasers of the same mounting check out the LC9. http://www.ruger.com/products/lc9/models.html I rather like this gun. But haven't tried it. Opinions?   The big dealer Exclusives are usually pretty nifty stuff. They get small runs of variants like Mannlicher stocked rifles or cult calibers like .41 Magnum. ( A superb round that did not get popular ) I seriously suggest checking that section out. Pink, or purple, or other shades/camos are there, as well as odd barrel lengths, etc. | ||
| Mnrider |
I have an LC9 for my carry,harder to target shoot than my full size MP9 but slim and easy to carry with good sights. Also like that it has a real safety and indicator for a bullet in the chamber. | ||
| Aesquire |
Thanks for the feedback. Probably not Sifo's choice, since he prefers one with no safety switch. ( all about the switches ) I rather like the feel and ergos. I'd expect it to bite harder than a Glock 19. MP9? This one? http://world.guns.ru/smg/usa/ruger-mp9-e.html  Or the S&W? | ||
| Bob_thompson |
You know guys, we've been kind of focused on smaller sidearms for concealed carry and I too have that AMT .45 backup I use for summer carry with just a "T" shirt but also consider a larger, easier to control, with larger capacity. pistol or revolver that can be completely concealed in just a fanny pack any time of the year or any place and a fanny pack is completely accepted all over. I have done that in the summer when eating in a restaurant, riding a bicycle or other activities where I feel the need to be armed and when its harder to conceal with light dress. That medium size gun can be a better choice for a one gun do it all piece. I carry my Glock 30 in a fanny pack quite often just because its my most accurate and easiest to shoot well piece. Just some more FWIW info. Bob | ||
| Sifo |
FB1, sorry for the confusion. The only one's I've seen locally have been that LaserMax one. I even mentioned to one of the sales guys that it was a pretty awkward switch to use. Never mentioned that he could get it with the Crimson Trace laser. Probably not Sifo's choice Nope. You nailed why. I have zero problems with topic drift at this point though. I've gotten good feed back on what I wanted. From here I can learn things I haven't considered.  | ||
| Aesquire |
Don't discount things Like Bob's Wife's favorite, a Rossi .44. Big holes work. A buddy had a Charter Arms Bulldog, and shot competition with it in Major. Fit his hand & worked. The AMT Backup in .45 is nice too. Older, heavier design, soft recoil for a .45 and might need a little TLC to be reliable. Or the Glock 36 if it fits.... | ||
| Sifo |
I like the idea of something lighter. More carrying, and less shooting. I know you have to shoot it to gain proficiency. That's part of the appeal of the XDs in my case. It is very similar to my daily shooter, the XD(m). In theory that should be an easy learning curve. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I compared carrying a CZ 82 to the PT22 when I realized the PT22 may have an extraction problem (perhaps because it is full of lint, perhaps because it was tested with some super-hyper-ultra velocity .22 rimfire and really didn't like it). The CZ is fatter and longer and heavier, but offers 12 rounds of 9mm Makrov (if I put in all 13 it doesn't feed the first reliably), and still fit nicely in cargo pants. These are old CZ duty weapons, and were going for under $300 on the surplus market for a long time. Not sure what it's worth now. Shoots great, very accurate and very controllable. | ||
| Mnrider |
S&W M&P9 for target and home and the LC9 for carry.The M&P9 is OK for carry also because it's light compared to to Tauras 92 I traded in for it. | ||
| Fb1 |
FB1, sorry for the confusion. No worries; sounds like the sales dude used to sell Harleys...... More confusion: You've got a Springfield XD(m), so you're already familiar with (and happy with, I presume) the brand and model overall, and you're obviously comfortable running a semi-auto. So: Why even consider a revolver? Just curious. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The LCRs come with both laser types from the factory. I have the CT variety. It's ok, but it really isn't going to help you much beyond 20 feet. At that distance, if you can't hit your target without the laser, you probably shouldn't be carrying a gun. I have the .38 special version and really like it. That said, I don't want to shoot many rounds through it even with the most docile .38 rounds. You get uncomfortable recoil to the hand after just a few rounds. I carry it when I am looking for the smallest profile (shorts, t-shirt, summer) in a DM Bullard IWB in the 4-5 o'clock position. Fits great. If I needed to defend myself, I'm not worried about recoil. The .357 will give you PLENTY of that in an LCR package. You will NOT want to shoot it much. Another option might be the SP101. My preference is my current carry gun:  Chiappa Rhino 20DS LOVE to shoot it. Virtually NO recoil. My wife can shoot .357 all day with no discomfort. | ||
| Sifo |
So: Why even consider a revolver? Basically, I was looking for a very concealable, well designed weapon. I've never been a fan of manual safeties, so that limits my pistol choices. I'm not married to either design. | ||
| Fb1 |
Chiappa Rhino 20DS LOVE to shoot it. Virtually NO recoil. My wife can shoot .357 all day with no discomfort. Fatty, my LGS dude pulls one of those out from under the counter after I had finished a session on their range a couple of years ago. He asked me if I knew anything about it. I did not. He explained what makes it different and then set me up with a handful each of .38 and .357 and told me to try it out. The .357 rounds felt as soft as 9mm going off, and the .38 felt like .22. I exaggerate, but not by much. Nice piece. It'd take me awhile to get used to the looks, but it sure shoots sweet. Agree on your comments about putting rounds downrange with the LCR. I can burn through 150 rounds in a session comfortably with any of the 9mm M&P's, but a box of .38 through the LCR and I've about had enough. Also agree re: the "working range" of the laser. I kinda consider it to be a REALLY up close and personal aide, particularly if something has happened (you've been knocked to the ground by a BG, for example) and you don't have the time or ability to get a good sight picture through the irons. Sifo, thanks. So the Springfield XD's have manual safeties? I shot a buddy's XD(something) once, but it's been several years ago and I can't remember. Seems to me you should stick with the platform you're already familiar with, with the added benefit that you don't have to invest in another ammo caliber. No? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
For concealed carry where it is life or death, my choice will always be a revolver. There are far too many potential points of failure with a semi-auto. I'm not just talking about FTF, stovepipe, etc. Unless you train A LOT, enough to have the procedures be buried in your muscle memory, there is always the potential for stress induced errors in operation. Is there a round chambered or not? Is it loaded or not? Is the weapon cocked? Is the safety on or off? Additionally, there is the mechanics itself. That slide must move properly to cycle the next round. Otherwise, it's a single shot. If you are shooting from a pocket or purse, you don't have a guarantee that the slide won't get caught on the liner or something else. There is always the possibility for shirts and jackets to get caught particularly if your first round is a tactical shot just as the weapon muzzle clears the holster. If your attacker is close enough to grab you, they may be able to grab the slide and prevent it from cycling. With a revolver, particularly a hammerless, if you can get your finger on the trigger, you can make it go bang. There is very little that can get caught from a pocket or purse. If it's SA/DA, you don't have to worry about whether it's cocked or if a round is chambered. You also don't have to worry about whether or not the safety is on. Granted, you don't have the capacity of a semi-auto, but unless you are in combat or law enforcement, you aren't likely to be drawing on multiple targets where you would need 15-17 rounds to neutralize the threat. There are very few circumstances where a 7th round will make any more of a difference than the 6 before it. I carry ALL the time. I view it as ATGATT protection. You can't always do that with a semi-auto (even the small ones). My Rhino is loaded with 357 self defense rounds, and the ballistics bests even 45 for energy carried by the round and muzzle velocity. Biggest bang from the smallest package, and I can plink with cheap 38 rounds. | ||
| Sifo |
So the Springfield XD's have manual safeties? No, the entire XD series, including the (m) and s versions have no manual safeties. They do have automatic safety features built into the backstrap and trigger though. It makes their operation very simple. Is there a round chambered or not? Is it loaded or not? Is the weapon cocked? Is the safety on or off? With the exception of the safety, everything else should be handled in the calmness of your home. In the case of the XD(m) that I own, or the XDs that I will likely end up with, they are designed to be loaded, chambered, and cocked, with no safety. I'm comfortable with that condition with this design, and wouldn't ever load them without finishing the task before putting it in it's place of ready. I agree with many of your other comments. My biggest issue with a revolver is that they are fat in the middle. That's a minor issue. BTW, if they are close enough to hold the slid back, they are close enough to hold the hammer back. Of course if you jam the muzzle of a pistol into someone, you may take it out of battery and prevent firing. There's no perfect weapon. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Hammerless has no hammer to grab (stick the webbing of your hand between the firing pin and the frame) or to catch on anything. LCR and SP101 aren't much wider than a Glock or XD. Am very interested in the upcoming Remington Model 51, though. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Glock width is 1.18 inches. Chiappa Rhino is 1.25 inches at the widest part. LCR and SP101 are even thinner. | ||
| Sifo |
The XDs is about .9 inches. | ||
| Fb1 |
Unless you train A LOT, enough to have the procedures be buried in your muscle memory, there is always the potential for stress induced errors in operation. Same dealio for each platform, right? Pull the trigger and it goes bang? Yeah, practice makes more perfect, but the "enabling switch" for both platforms is the same: Pull the trigger. What am I missing? Is there a round chambered or not? ALWAYS. Is it loaded or not? ALWAYS, just like in your revolver. Is the weapon cocked? ALWAYS. Is the safety on or off? Off. ALWAYS. So, re the above: They're my handguns, and they're always configured the same. ALWAYS. Meaning, simply pull the trigger and out comes fire and brimstone, just like your revolver. Right? Additionally, there is the mechanics itself. That slide must move properly to cycle the next round. Otherwise, it's a single shot. If you are shooting from a pocket or purse, you don't have a guarantee that the slide won't get caught on the liner or something else. I hope to never be in a situation so desperate that I have to shoot from a pocket (and I just hate blowing holes in my expensive purses...), but I'll concede, just a little, on this point. There is always the possibility for shirts and jackets to get caught particularly if your first round is a tactical shot just as the weapon muzzle clears the holster. Yeah, OK, I suppose anything can happen. Today's EDC-friendly semi-autos are pretty organic when it comes to their design - they're purposely made to minimize the chance of getting caught on something. If your attacker is close enough to grab you, they may be able to grab the slide and prevent it from cycling. And if they're this close, they could also grab your revolver and prevent the cylinder from revolving? (Dang, what a risky move this would be for the BG in either scenario, eh? ) With a revolver, particularly a hammerless, if you can get your finger on the trigger, you can make it go bang. Same with my M&P's. Right? If it's SA/DA, you don't have to worry about whether it's cocked or if a round is chambered. You also don't have to worry about whether or not the safety is on. I never worry about any of these things, never even have to give it a second thought: It is, one is, and it isn't. Granted, you don't have the capacity of a semi-auto, but unless you are in combat or law enforcement, you aren't likely to be drawing on multiple targets where you would need 15-17 rounds to neutralize the threat. How many rounds is "enough"? Who knows? I really, really, REALLY like the fact that I can carry more chances to live with my M&P's than I can with my LCR. There are very few circumstances where a 7th round will make any more of a difference than the 6 before it. Perhaps. Perhaps not. I don't see any downside to carrying 18 (or 13, or 9) chances to live on my hip. Your mileage may vary. |
