| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
Anyone familiar with the Ruger LCR? I've been looking at small pocket guns and it's high on my list. I'm wondering if anyone has shot the .357 version. I can't find one locally that can be rented or borrowed. I'm a bit concerned that the recoil might be pretty wicked in such a light gun. Another on my short list is the Springfield Armory XDs 9mm. I've at least talked to someone who owns that and says it's pretty easily managed. I would prefer the 9mm over the .38 Special +P LCR simply for it's better terminal ballistics. I'm open to other suggestions, but really like both of these options. Go ahead and let this thread wander as needed. Thanks for the input. | ||
| Sleez |
check out the ruger forum; http://www.rugerforum.com/phpBB3/viewforum.php?f=3 &sid=668b5fd250ba397652bb49bd00dee773 i have heard the LCR in 357 kicks pretty good, i have an SP101 as my carry gun, a bit heavier than the LCR, but it handles the recoil ok. good luck. | ||
| Fb1 |
Anyone familiar with the Ruger LCR? Yep. Our LCR .38 is a pretty snappy little piece. We've got two sets of grips for it, Crimson Trace and Hogue. The Hogue grips are more comfortable than the CT with stouter loads, but isn't really a lot of fun to shoot in either configuration (well, I take that back: they're ALL fun to shoot) because it's so snappy. That said, were I to do it again I'd get the .357 so I had the option of running .357 or .38. Overall we love it, including the very nice factory trigger. Wadcutters are pretty comfortable to shoot in it, makes for good practice (or carry) rounds for the recoil-sensitive, but certainly wouldn't be my carry choice. Re: 9mm, have you considered an M&P? Nice piece, lots of aftermarket support (Apex Tactical makes some nice trigger upgrades). I like mine a bunch. Here's an M&P review by Massad Ayoob: http://www.gundigest.com/firearm-gun-reviews/gun-r eview-smith-wesson-military-police-auto-pistol Our M&P's are pain- and drama-free even putting multiple big-grain +P rounds downrange, plus carry a much larger payload than a revolver, and get back on-target right nice, but if this is a carry piece for someone besides you, ya obviously need to make sure they're able to rack the thing. If not, a revolver is a good way to go. Ruger also makes an LCR .22LR (eight-shot), and fairly new (I think) is their LCR .22WMRF (six-shot), for someone wanting a pocket (or purse) revolver but who is recoil-sensitive. Also new is the LCRx, which has a small, exposed hammer, as opposed to their "hammerless" LCR's. Sorry for the ramble; you asked for it.  | ||
| Fb1 |
More M&P resources: http://mp-pistol.com/index.php?/topic/30241-the-mp -files/ http://www.americanrifleman.org/articles/smith-wes son-m-p-shield/ (I LOVE my Shield!) http://www.gunblast.com/SW_MP9.htm Apex Tactical: http://www.apextactical.com/index.php LCR: http://www.officer.com/article/10233683/the-ruger- lcr | ||
| Ourdee |
Tom, Have you taken the class for carrying yet? | ||
| Blake |
Shot a friend's LCR in .357 mag last Summer. Didn't notice recoil being a problem. I'm not very sensitive to recoil though. Very nice lightweight revolver. He carries it in a shirt pocket as a backup. He's a professional merc. | ||
| Ninefortheroad |
I have a LCR in .38 Sp. and it was the right choice for me. The "as sold" configuration is a great package and with a good DA trigger out of the box. I am not worried about the ballistics hit with a 38, the muzzle flash at dusk/dark in my other 357's is significant and hinders me in low light conditions and the extra recoil not worth it to me. I would do it again and in 38. | ||
| Sifo |
Tom, Have you taken the class for carrying yet? Haven't yet. I need equipment for the class first. I really don't have anything suitable for concealed carry at this point, so... Sorry for the ramble; you asked for it. I did ask. Thanks. I've been meaning to find a M&P to check out, but haven't yet. I did check out a Sig Sauer P938. Real sweet gun. I just prefer a gun designed to not use a manual safety. That's simply a personal training issue. BTW, this is for me only. If my wife wants a carry gun, she can get her own. She actually has a S&W TRR8 .357. Recoil on that is no problem at all for me, but it's much bigger than the LCR. Thanks for the opinions so far. | ||
| Fb1 |
I just prefer a gun designed to not use a manual safety. Me, too. My full-size M&P and my compact M&P are sans safety, but my new Shield has a manual safety (the only way they come). Wish it didn't, but the safety stays off, and can't come on unless you very deliberately engage it, i.e. in an EDC scenario it just isn't a factor if you don't want it to be. BTW, the Shield is as "soft" to shoot as it's bigger bros. The M&P's are sweet pieces, and the trigger on the Shield is like warm butter compared to my others. It's really my only gripe on the bigger, "older" M&P's - a slightly gritty trigger, and a not-perfect reset. One of these paydays soon I'll be sending some fundage in the direction of Apex Tactical... 7 yards with the full-size M&P9, stock trigger and sights:   | ||
| Bob_thompson |
In the FWIW section of this thread about recoil with small, light guns, auto or revolver: First, I'm not recoil shy or sensitive having owned and shot extensively a Ruger Redhawk, .44 Mag. and a nice Taurus Raging Bull in .454 Casull. I have tried two smaller .357 magnum snubbie revolvers, both steel and the recoil was more like a stinging slap on the hand then actual recoil with 125 JHP mag. loads.....and it hurt much worse then my .454 Casull with 260g.mag loads. I shot only six shots and did not want more due to my hand stinging quite a bit. Now my .357 Smith & Wesson model 686 I could shoot all day without a problem. More recoil then slap. One last thought; My little wifes favorite revolver was a nice Rossi .44 special 3 1/2" I down loaded with 180g. JHP's at just 750fps. and I'm quite sure it would have gotten the job done nicely. As always, try before you buy. Stay safe all. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I love my Ruger Security Six in .357 Wanting to get an SP101 for the wife, shot one at a range a few years ago and loved it. I can't imagine being disappointed with anything named Ruger. | ||
| Sifo |
I think I can eliminate the M&P. I think it's a fine piece, but I'm really looking for a single stack to keep it thin. So the make the single stack shield. That's a safety design though. I know, why am I considering the revolver then? Mostly because it has better punch than the 9mm. Also because that particular one is extremely light. I really don't think the pain of the recoil is going to be an issue in .357, especially with the nice grip they have. Getting a follow up shot might be slowed down though. I may run to another range tomorrow and see if they have a rental. If not I think I'm leaning toward the XDs 9mm. Ourdee, was there a follow up comment based on my answer to training? No, I haven't been through the training course yet. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I would recommend the SP101, great gun. Perhaps not as good a trigger as the S&W, but hard for a non professional to tell a difference. Not a great CCW gun though. For CCW, I don't really see the point of .357. Any gun you would want to shoot would be too big to conceal practically. If you believe a reasonably hot .38 isn't sufficient for self defense, I would respectfully suggest you have been spending too much time with gun magazines and on the internet. To fix it... take the following steps: 1) Buy two big two liter bottles of grape soda. 2) Grab a large screwdriver (a really big one) and a .38 with moderate loads (not even +p). 3) Sit down with the two liter and the screw driver, and stab that bottle as hard as you possibly can with the screwdriver. 4) Imagine, even though you were lucky to even leave a mark on that 2 liter bottle, how much "incapacitate" that same stab would have done had it been applied to any part of your body. 5) Now take the second 2 liter bottle, put it on a stump, walk 10 yards away, and put a .38 round right through the middle of it. 6) Remember that 2' radius purple sphere in your mind. Go pick up the shredded remnants of that bottle. 7) Contemplate how much more damage that .38 would have done than that incapacitating screwdriver blow did, and do the math to think about being on the receiving end of it. 8) Decide that not only is a .38 a reasonable CCW round, a .32 or even .22 LR isn't an insane choice either, particularly if it means you will be carrying twice as often as you would otherwise carry. (Optional step 9: Note the Taurus PT-22 can be had with a nice set of rosewood grips for $209, and that it is trivial to conceal and you can carry it all day long comfortable in any clothing and in any weather). YMMV. (Message edited by reepicheep on January 16, 2014) | ||
| Sifo |
Reepicheep, Not to totally discount what you say, but... I have been rolling much of that over in my mind. Frankly, I don't want to be shot with a .22. A .38 may be adequate, and is certainly far better than nothing. If I'm spending the money though, why not get the best protection I can? I do recognize that doesn't always mean just a bigger, deeper hole. Notice that I'm not even considering the XDs .45, but the 9mm instead. For me, and certainly not everyone, that is close to best IMO. The .357 is only better for me if it's controllable. That's where my uncertainty lies. I will counter with a couple of points... 1) Georgia mom shoots home intruder in the face five times with a .38-caliber revolver This guy managed to leave the house and drive away before he died. He was certainly still capable of doing harm. 2) Heavy clothing will make them even less effective. 3) A 1 and 7/8 inch barrel is going to reduce terminal ballistics quite a bit more, even in a .357. 4) The .357 LCR is almost dimensionally identical to the .38 LCR. Your point 8 becomes moot because of this. Valid, but moot for my considerations. 5) I've shot plenty of milk jugs with .22, .38, 9mm, .357 .45 and .223. The .22 and .38 make them bleed. The 9mm can split them. The .357, .45 and .223 explode them. 6) Go back and really contemplate point number 1. 5 shots to the face didn't put him down! If this were for my wife, the .38 LCR would be a no brainer. She doesn't like semi-autos and a tiny .357 would be too much for her. It's a gun for me though. I may or may not be comfortable with the .357 LCR. I feel confident that the XDs 9mm would be fine. Price difference for the guns under consideration is not an issue. I would take the XDs 9mm over the the .38 LCR in a heart beat. It's slimmer, and pistols tend to manage recoil better for equal ballistics. The .357 gets the nod on the ballistics point though. Yep, YMMV and I'm certainly not saying that a .38 is a bad choice. | ||
| Sidepipe79 |
Sifo, I have a XD40 and love the gun. It is a bit big when trying to conceal but the XDs should fit that bill great. I dont think you will regret it. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I agree Sifo, I'm arguing an extreme. Lets talk about cameras. I used to have some really nice and really powerful cameras. And I knew how to use them really well. I would take along a big SLR body, what amounted to portable studio lighting (with slaves), and a stack of lenses. I would get great pictures 5 times a year... because that was all the times I could be arsed to bother to lug it all around, or was willing to risk the $5000 stack get damaged or stolen. Now I have two Panasonic Lumix cameras. One was $200 several years ago, one was $100 (both used). I use them about 3 times a week. I leave them in cars over night, I take them in pockets when I don't think I'll need them, and I laugh if they fall off a table or bang into a workbench. I get much better pictures with the inferior Lumix's than I would with $10000 worth of high end Nikon gear, because the Lumix is with me when the Nikon would not be. Hypothetically, if I did have a CCW, and did choose to carry, I might hypothetically find a snub nose .38 a little on the heavy and disruptive side for the ankle holster I might be hypothetically using. I might find the PT22, while knowing it carries much less muzzle energy, 5 times more likely to be carried with me, because when I put it on I don't even notice it is there. Hypothetically.  (actually, I think I would hypothetically want a tiny .380 or 9mm semiautomatic in a wallet shaped holster. But I think I can't hypothetically afford it yet. Hypothetically. ) | ||
| Ourdee |
My wife and I have class this weekend. They want us to use a side holster on the belt for class. I think I'll use my Buckmark in .22 to qualify. If not it will be the Star in .45 ACP. They use the same holster. If the permit is ever issued, I'm considering an AMT Backup in .45ACP for carry. No manual safety, 3" barrel, single stack, heavy trigger pull, stainless. They are good guns if you go through them.  I have little respect for .38s. Nice if you don't want to kill, but, I consider it risky compared to a .45. My "class" question didn't have ulterior motives. Just curious. The process will not be cheap for us. I used to carry in Indiana. They charged $25 for the whole process. Hope to never have to need it. (removed history here/remind me to tell you sometime) My wife plans on qualifying with a FireStar in 9mm. It's always fun to watch her shoot. I may get her an AMT Backup in .45. They are good guns if you go through them. (Message edited by ourdee on January 16, 2014) | ||
| Ourdee |
Wallet holster is legal trouble. I think it is only a $5 batf tax stamp. The jury will be convinced you suckered the guy in so you could kill him with that gun disguised as a wallet. Best to hand him a wallet with expired cards and $40 in it, if you let yourself get into that situation. You are in Illinois not Texas. | ||
| Ourdee |
1) Georgia mom shoots home intruder in the face five times with a .38-caliber revolver This guy managed to leave the house and drive away before he died. He was certainly still capable of doing harm. 5 in the chest probably would have killed him..... | ||
| Aesquire |
Saw a case man shot 6 times in chest by irate wife. .357 magnum. Called police and waited on porch until ambulance arrived. Talking normally with good vitals. Weird stuff happens. Really weird. That was not typical. A 9mm with the right load is about equal to a .38. A fmj is a bad choice for either. The Ruger in .357 has a steel frame, the.38 alloy. The steel one is heavier. Recoil sensitivity is personal. I find a .357 snubby a bit rough, and prefer a bigger slower hit to the hand. Ymmv. OTOH A .44 special is ok. Speed and power give different effects. Imho a .38 with the right load is fine if you pick one meant for short barrels like the Speer gold dot. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Ourdee: "I'm considering an AMT Backup in .45ACP for carry. No manual safety, 3" barrel, single stack, heavy trigger pull, stainless. They are good guns if you go through them." A good call if you can find one that has been as dependable as mine. I have had mine since they first came out many years ago when I bought it new. They are hit and miss (excuse the pun) but a good one is great. It is my warm weather conceal piece, a little heavy (all SS) and also, as you state, a heavy trigger pull. Double action only so as safe as a revolver. Its also a six shooter with one in the pipe. No safety needed. But mine goes bang every time I pull the trigger. Good enough and built to last three lifetimes. They are still, I believe, the smallest .45 ACP out there and somewhat hard to fine. I will never sell mine. Its been great. And yes they do recoil, but as stated earlier, no stinging slap as with .357 snubbies. I like to run Federal 165g. Personal Defense and yes its not meant to be your wife's carry gun unless she is a very good shooter that can handle good recoil in a small package and the trigger pull. FWIW, Bob (Message edited by Bob_thompson on January 16, 2014) | ||
| Sifo |
Reepicheep, the "cameras" I'm considering are in a price range that I can live with them getting beat up and worn. I have some more expensive "cameras" that would upset me to be treated that way. These "cameras" are small enough to easily carry in almost all situations. Ordee, didn't expect an ulterior motive for the question, just was wondering if you had words of wisdom based on the answer. Interesting that you can use a belt holster for the class. I'll have to call the instructor and find out if we can do that. Things seem a bit confused at the moment in Illinois. I talked to one person who took a class using a "blue gun". Someone I work with had to do live fire shooting in his class. It seems that standardization of the curriculum is not well set in Illinois at this point in time. I think it's supposed to be 16 hours of class though. That gets almost as expensive as the gun! A 9mm with the right load is about equal to a .38. A fmj is a bad choice for either. I'm not sure what kind of loads you would compare to get that equality. A .38 +P is substantially weaker than a typical 9mm, at least what I was looking at. Of course few manufactures publish data using a 2 inch barrel. I do agree that choice of ammo is pretty darned important, and not a place to get cheap. I'm kind of partial to the Hornady Critical Defense rounds. Their .38 +P definitely seem to be weaker than their 9mm. | ||
| Ourdee |
The belt holster is mandatory in the class I'm taking. Most likely for safety on the range. Pull your shirt out and it is concealed. Carry for me is .45ACP or larger. I don't have a 9mm or a .38. I trust Hornady. I like HydraShock for carry ammo. 16 hours for civilians, 8 hours with a DD214. | ||
| Aesquire |
As i often say, Computer geek/gun geek///it's thousands of a... thousands of those....where the switches are and how they work.... All of it actually means something in the real world but unless you are an enthusiast... not so much fun.. I am however an enthusiast...  just one brand & bullet. Federal Hydra-shok .38 +p 129 grain 950 fps .357 158 grain 1240 fps 9mm 124 grain 1120 fps 9mm 147 grain 1000 fps and 9mm guard dog, ( specialty bullet not a hydra-shok ) 110 grains 1230 fps So, yes 9mm is faster. And by enough to be different. You can really see the balancing act the ammo makers are doing. The question is what the .357 in a 2 inch barrel get you? Dimensionally the case ( and the gun, more or less ) is .10 longer. The pressures are much higher and the recoil sharper because of the velocity. You're not getting the full 1240 fsp out of a snubby.... so...... It gets down to personal preference. My attitude is the .357 will mass s little more in the pocket, but recoil less with the same .38+p loads, and offers the ability to use full goose .357's if you want. IF you don't mind the recoil. If you do, then go for the lighter gun. I'm not going to call anyone a wimp for finding .357's in a light snub nose unpleasant. Nor would I praise the macho of those who don't. | ||
| Ourdee |
A .22 on target is more effective than a miss with a .44 magnum. If you decide to carry, You have to behave better than most of the population. No flipping people off. Ignoring peoples bad behavior. Being humble enough to let people cut you off without getting angry. An armed civilization is a polite civilization. There are lots of everyday options available to you that suddenly become too expensive. You have to hold yourself to a higher standard. I know we always should anyways. | ||
| Sleez |
Ourdee: well put, i agree completely! | ||
| Fb1 |
I think I can eliminate the M&P. I think it's a fine piece, but I'm really looking for a single stack to keep it thin. So the make the single stack shield. That's a safety design though. 10-4, amigo. From your posts, it really sounds like you want a svelte semi-auto as opposed to a chubby snubbie. As an added benefit, you're gonna get more chances to live (the LCR in .38 or .357 only holds five rounds), and a semi-auto oughta be more accurate all in all, onnaconna the longer barrel. It will likely be more enjoyable to shoot, too - practice makes perfect. I know you know this already, but just like motorcycles, you really should test-ride every firearm that's on your short list before pulling the financial trigger on one. And, just like motorcycles these days, it's pretty hard to find a truly bad firearm. Happy hunting. | ||
| Fb1 |
PS: What Ourdee said ^^^. | ||
| Ourdee |
I asked my wife what she plans on carrying. She didn't blink or hesitate, just said matter of fact,"A Kimber Master Carry Ultra .45". | ||
| Aaron_thomas |
firearms seem to like motorcycles. some want big, loud and nasty. others want low key that do the job. I personally like the .45 ACP in a 1911 variant. Thin, easy to carry and simple to operate. I owned a .38 colt cobra with a 3" barrel. Great to carry, not fun to shoot, I did not care for it. My opinion, one needs to be comfortable with a pistol to be able to defend ones self well. Test before yo0u buy if at all possible. Good luck. P.S there are always stories about some crackhead survived a shooting that they should not have. I saw a man get shot about 15 times with various 9mm, 5.56 rounds. took a shotgun to the back to put him down. I also do remember from my history, the US military went with a larger .45 auto way back in 1911 due to the fact that the.38 round was not doing the job during the Filipino insurrection (Message edited by aaron thomas on January 17, 2014) |
