| Author | Message | ||
     Rocket_in_uk |
To even try to put this on the driver of the Rover is to say that it's OK for thugs to ignore the laws simply because they travel in a huge pack. This isn't how the laws should, or do work. It's been reported that the police have history with this group and turned them away from their planned route that day. The simple fact that there were hundreds of 911 calls about them that day demonstrates that the Rover wasn't "singled out", but was simply the one who got caught up in the machinery in the wrong way. It's kind of like blaming the rape victim because she looked attractive. That just doesn't fly. Wasn't going to comment on this subject being we don't see this in the UK but I could not agree more with Sifo's comment. If this were the UK police would act in force. Something similar to this here would very quickly be escalated to major incident status. That is a certainty. Police helicopter would be filming gathering evidence in minutes too. Rocket in England | ||
| Dcc46 |
Copied this from another website As a trucker that would deliver in north jersey and New York I am familiar with these gangs. I can hopefully clarify a few things. First the initial "accident" is part of a game they play. They ride in a huge group and will operate together to slow down traffic. Next they pick out high end vehicles targeting people with families in them, the targets will usually be white or Asian. Then one of the riders will do a "brake check" and stop suddenly in front of the target vehicle causing a minor bump. In some cases they will just roll back into their target vehicle. They will then mob the vehicle demanding money and or begin attacking the person inside. It is their practice to also slash the tires to prevent the vehicle from escaping. Truckers are well aware of them and are advised not to stop. You can clearly see in the video how they are well practiced in this style of attack. The police in NY have backed off them after an officer ran one down using his vehicle a few months back. The video was all over the net so I advise you to check it out. These "bikers" ride dirt bikes and sport bikes very few of which are street legal and even fewer have plates. They run red lights, stop signs, and have no regard for the law. If you are ever in this situation do not stop, immediately call the police and do whatever you have to to keep them from boxing you in. NEVER leave the scene of an accident if you are not under direct threat!!! Only run if you have no other choice, and again immediately call the police. This is not rare by any means, the only reason this incident got any attention is because of the helmet cam video being posted on the net. If you see anyone in this situation, call the police. Make no mistake confusing these punks with true bikers. You will rarely if ever see a member of these gangs on a Harley. Do not for a minute blame true bikers for this kind of behavior. Bikers like those involved in the 2 million Bikers to DC Rally are American Patriots and would be among the first to come to your aid. A final note, always be aware of motorcycles and share the road. Check your mirrors and don't ride anyone's bumper, motorcycles have a much smaller profile then a car and are harder to see." | ||
| Pwnzor |
Where does this assumption come from that you must be rich to drive a Range Rover? I know they're expensive, but if you have decent credit you can buy one. And how exactly does being RICH make you an a**hole? Jealous much? | ||
| Reepicheep |
Interesting tidbit Dcc... I wonder how common / accurate it is? | ||
| Bandm |
 http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3cd_1380579664 | ||
| 86129squids |
I had a thought yesterday, too late to post as I was heading to work on my Beemer... Given the national attention this is getting, why doesn't the AMA speak up against this behavior? Seems this would be a perfect opportunity to put the voice of such a large, cohesive and responsible group front and center to condemn these thugs/punks. There are surely other rider's groups who could speak up other than the AMA, but they're the biggest, with the highest profile that I'm aware of. Opinions? | ||
| Lynrd |
I was actually thinking exactly the same thing when I saw this. It reminds me of the olde "1%er" line from the AMA. Honestly, this whole thing makes me want to help the RR driver somehow, just to demonstrate that all "Bikers" aren't this kind. It also sort of makes me want to go squid hunting in New York, but that just an idle thought brought on by too many Quentin Tarantino movies. *BTW - I used to be a "Biker" - I am now a "Motorcycle Enthusiast". I also wonder if the YouTube video got seized from one of the riders, and posted "Anonymously" by the other side, or if one of the riders got a fit of conscience and posted this to show this much of the story. | ||
| Sifo |
why doesn't the AMA speak up against this behavior? Isn't that kind of like the NRA having to state that they don't support illegal use of guns by gang bangers? | ||
| Xdigitalx |
I was thinking the same thing Sifo,... I don't think they should, if they speak any words about it at all, they would be attaching themselves to the incident. | ||
| Lynrd |
Seems to me every time I get to read about a school shooting/workplace shooting/ name your favorite whack job gun event, the NRA does exactly that. They may not comment on every gang banger event, but when things get a certain media attention, they do step up. Tactically, this helps them fight for protecting the rights of sensible gun owners. I have no idea what good would come of the AMA speaking out, other than to distance themselves from this new breed of 1%ers. Then again, I also am not clear what they accomplished in the past on this issue, other than coining the term "1%er". But condemning this sort of thing early may be tactically important when some legislaton is imposed to, say, limit horsepower/weight ratios, for example. I have read two articles now where the "Hollywood Stuntz" apologists are claiming that motorcycle technology is to blame - i.e. it so so much easier to do a wheelie down the interstate now thanks to the power of modern motorcycles. Not exactly knocking the AMA - I thank them now for enabling me to use the HOV lane. | ||
| Akbuell |
I really doubt the video got seized. Given the attitude of these groups, the poster was most likely just trying to show how cool and tough they are. Saw a portion of an interview with some biker from the group claiming how the RR driver was 'driving like a maniac'. Since I only saw part of the interview, I have no idea when the 'maniac' driving took place, but out of All Of Those Bikers only ONE had a camera rolling !!! As Mr Spock would say "Fascinating" | ||
| 86129squids |
"if they speak any words about it at all, they would be attaching themselves to the incident." Well, not really, not at all. How would speaking out against such behavior "attach" themselves to this? IIRC the American Motorcyclist Association exists to promote the sport/lifestyle/image/et cetera of motorcyclists in general; this incident is specific due to media coverage but becoming more and more common. I guess some lawyerese/politicalese pansies out the best actions, which just might promote the higher good for all of us serious MC enthusiasts. Yes, as Spock would say, "Fascinating". Waitaminute- I just looked up the AMA board, even business partners, Erik Buell wasn't listed! I thought he was on the board of directors at the very least... what gives? At any rate, I'm sure he's got bigger fish to fry at this very moment. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
I meant...it would be a perception, by the majority of the cager/non-enthusiasts' that could/would attach it, not you or I.. or the AMA. | ||
| Doz |
OK, so this gang has been at this for some time....where's the enforcement? Now, just like the Newtown shootings there is talk of new laws, only pertaining to motorcyclists. We don't need any more laws! Just enforce the current ones. And yes, I label this group as a gang while the media labels them as bikers. Mistakes made on many people involved but I'd hold the local law accountable too. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Enforcement against flashmobs of stupid people is a real problem. You can intecept the flash mob, and catch 5% of the people, and throw the book at them, and they will spend the next 10 years thinking "what an incredible dumb ass I was for doing that"... but the other 95% walk and there is more than 5% ready to refresh the ranks in short order. | ||
| Sifo |
Part of the problem of catching them is that the front of the pack is where the really aggressive riders wind up riding. They set much of the tone of the pack too. When the lights go on, they will be the first to take off. It's virtually impossible for a cop to catch them with all the other bikes in the way, never mind the cop car being at a power disadvantage. So then the cops have to weigh the probability of not catching the real problems against the potential of a chase going wrong and killing someone not even involved. I heard that NYC has a policy of not engaging in high speed chases. I suppose this might entice groups like this to venture into that territory, knowing they can simply bolt. I don't really know the right answers to these problems. I do understand some of the challenges involved though. | ||
| Brumbear |
Doz +1 There is some 37000 police officers in NYC, They have no problem slammin bikes for a hefty amount of fine $$$$ on a reg basis ie loud exhaust tickets. I agree these asshats on the bikes really suck and should be walloped but I see crap everyday that is a mm from this event. What I see more is speeding tickets given out with reckless abandonment when they should be giving tailgating and aggressive driving tickets out not 72 in a 65. | ||
| Sifo |
What I see more is speeding tickets given out with reckless abandonment when they should be giving tailgating and aggressive driving tickets out not 72 in a 65. They do way they can, even if it does absolutely nothing to solve the problem at hand. This is exactly the problem faced with 2nd amendment rights. When a single idiot does something bad with a gun, the government feels compelled to do something, anything, so that they can tell the people all the wonderful things they do for the people. Expect a negative backlash over this incident, possibly in major cities across the country. Who will pay the price for a government that wants to crush a minority segment of the population. It probably won't be the criminals. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Range Rovers are Boca Broncos here no big deal F series diesels cost more and are a better truck Most RRs are leased any way That Bravo Sierra doesn't fly in Fla the first helmet on glass its met with multiple shots fired. I have done what that RR driver did I just used a E 350 the back bumper and trailer hitch makes short work of the zoomy fart can jap beater Kinda reminds you of Rice Krispies all that plastic crunching The RR driver should have made a few passes over the fools Thin out the herd Come looking for trouble I ll send more than you ever wanted. | ||
| Aesquire |
A lot of talk about Castle Doctrine, Stand your ground laws, and other legal issues. None apply here. I still don't know what prompted the mass of fools on bikes to be upset with the RR. Not on the video, and the some of the speculation above seems reasonable to me. I just don't know. For sure. It's obvious that the "accident" with the white bike ( very visible from ":20 to :27 sec. ) was a deliberate act by the rider to stop the RR, by having it gently hit him. That right there is vehicular assault. In an accident, being rear ended is generally thought not to be your fault, and the guy who rear ends you is at fault. 99+% of the time that's true. In this case, it's not. There was no accident on that video. Once under not just vehicular assault, but actual assault with property damage and clear threat to lives, deadly force is permitted. No matter what idiots on tv or the internet tell you. Like the Zimmerman assault, once you have reasonable fear for your life, the rules change. No, if a guy in a bar punches you in the nose, you should not blow his head off. If he has you on the ground and is pounding your head on the sidewalk, yes, you may. Please. Feel free. If you go to jail depends on a number of factors, including who initiated the fight. If I call you names, and you proceed to try and kill me, I'm on shaky ground, but the law still blames you. If I punch you and you then try and kill me, It's all on me. That is the legal line in most locations. YMMV, Lawyers are paid very well to blur lines and convince jurors, so the law may not apply in your case. Sucks, but true. So back to the video. I didn't see the assault on the RR, between :27 and the time the RR rams it's way out of the crowd. Too many people in the way. After that it's pure illegal actions by the bike riders. Am I wrong? Did I miss something? | ||
| Lynrd |
What he was driving doesn't f'kin matter to anyone with a brain. These assholes basically picked this poor sap out because they thought he looked weak and might have some money. He's driving somewhere with his family in the car and got into a horrific situation. I agree with you, once the chase started, the lowlifes on the bikes are really lucky that he didn't decide to whip around and take a few out to make them knock the shit off. A good weave or two at the right moment and he could have left enough bikes and bodies on the road to put an end to that damnfoolishness. ...of course, we would then be hearing about the crazy Asian driver mowing down some poor defenseless motorcycle riders on their way to a rally. If it wasn't for the GoPro video - we might all still be talking about that. But, if you put yourself in his shoes - a straight looking guy, out driving with his woman and kid in the car, being chased down by a mob - damn, he's not going to be thinking, he's going to be reacting. You can bet his wife and kid were probably screaming and crying, and that will interrupt any family mans thought process. His background obviously didn't prepare him to react aggressively at all but to be non-confrontational. To assholes like these Hollywood Stuntz jerkoffs, those sorts of citizens smell like prey. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I demand to know why New York is not banning high capacity military assault vehicles like the Range Rover. A Honda Civic could not have driven over that motorcycle and killed that rider. Ban assault vehicles now! | ||
| Pwnzor |
Ban assault vehicles now!  | ||
| Aesquire |
Kenm, I share your anger, but I have to disagree. ( Not completely, mind you ) Just about making multiple passes. That's not going to go well for you in court. I understand the rage though. I don't usually ride in mass rides. Maybe 6-7 in a group, and I usually prefer sweep riding off the back. ( with a Cyclone I have the best brakes. Damn near always ) I've been caught in masses though. Last time was just plain traffic to the Poags Hole Hill Climb. half an hour in stop and go, then riding under police orders on the left side of the road ( different parking areas ) I found it a bit stressful. Had a ball, overall, despite that. But I've been passed by smaller groups, 20+ on the expressway, and just let them by, and tried not to help them cause an accident, by staying in lane and in lane position to be predictable. Bunch of a,,,oles doing stunts and making us all look bad. Even got pulled over right after one of those occasions, and my decrepitude and attitude convinced the police I wasn't part of it. ( Pull off on shoulder, shut down bike, pocket key, get off bike, walk 10 feet toward police car, stop, remove gloves, helmet, while facing police cars ( they multiply ) unzip jacket, pull out, light cigar, pull out, open wallet, first words to officers "Hello Officer, what a bunch of Morons". After a polite chat, including the sentiment "too old for that crap", was politely allowed to go on my way. Helps to be a graybeard sometimes. ) | ||
| Lynrd |
I am going to guess, Aesquire, that you are a lawyer, from both your handle and your thought process about how things are going to look in court. I'm not a lawyer, but have known quite a few...and one thing I'll point out. I never said what *I* would do in such a situation as this Hollywood Stuntz situation. I have no idea at all. I never give it a thought. | ||
| Loki |
you have got to watch more of the video from that ride prior to the "incident" with the Rover. any sympathy you may hold for those riders will be fleeting! | ||
| Aesquire |
Lynrd. Nope, not a lawyer. did have a few "misspent" moments in my youth, and was lucky enough to take one law class in high school. "Law Arrest & The Courts". Since that was last Century, I am NOT qualified to give legal advice. I AM qualified to tell you that being polite and cautious with a police officer who's pulled you over is smarter than having a temper tantrum at an armed guy who is probably scared to death, especially when pulling over a "Biker", in a world full of thugs like in the video, and several seasons of "Sons Of Anarchy". ( aka Macbeth on hogs ) I've had soooooo much fun dealing with police when I'm the most obvious weird thing in his world, at that moment, and he's had horrible misconceptions about who I might be. Advice about dealing with police in a traffic stop while legally carrying concealed, for example come straight from the class required in NY State to get a permit. For all legal advice, consult a professional, and not "Just Joe" Biden. Or me. I do appreciate your wisdom in not speculating on your actions in such a situation. Wise to not put on record criminal intent.  | ||
| Lynrd |
Reepicheep, lets just hope the backlash doesn't turn the motorcycle into an "assault vehicle".... | ||
| Reepicheep |
That too. Anyone paying attention has to recognize that the *most* offended people by this behavior, only behind that of the people assualted, are people that take motorcycling seriously. The vitrol being directed at these thugs is a bit chilling in spite of the fact that I share the anger at them. We are not a group to be *&^*&&$ with, especially not by ourselves. | ||
| Rocket_in_uk |
UK police would have the entire gang filmed en masse from helicopter. A major investigation would look at the Youtube footage and other evidence gathered. The most immediate riding outside the law and illegal machinery would be primary targets. Police would likely appeal to public to submit phone/camera footage too. Street CCTV etc. For the majority it's likely they would not get away with it here. Rocket in England (Message edited by rocket_in_uk on October 03, 2013) |
