| Author | Message | ||
     Hootowl |
Nope. There is no good decision to be made. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
no one mentioned how UN has already told him that he cant do this? He doesnt want to piss off his buds at the UN, we wont attack Syria | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Was the attack on our base in Libya something less deserving of military action compared to civil war in Syria? Also, why would Assad welcome worldwide condemnation and retaliation by gassing his own people? This situation smells really bad. | ||
| Aesquire |
But Johnny, the attack on the Consulate in Benghazi, along with the other 22 "protests" and assaults on US Embassies, the same day, wasn't a "dis on O". But Obama, I mean the World, drew a line in the sand. Sure, he was talking out his ... with no plan or strategy, just to try and sound tough. You don't dis a bully who is talking out his ... or he'll get mad. Barry's mad. I could be being unfair here. After all, the "red line" comment was said months ago. That's forever in Dog and Reporter years. In any event if John McCain is for it, I'm against it. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/357455/stop-i solationism-stuff-already-jonah-Goldberg Timothy Carney’s sarcastic definition comes to mind: “Isolationist: n. Someone who, on occasion, opposes bombing foreigners.” I’d phrase it slightly different. An isolationist is someone who doesn’t want to bomb foreigners when I do. http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/357563/obamas -redline-problem-and-ours-jonah-goldberg Obama’s statement just now about how it’s not his red line will get recycled a lot over the next few days. He said “I didn’t set a red line. The world set a red line.” He also said, “My credibility is not on the line. International credibility is on the line.” If you actually watch Obama’s August 20, 2012, statement about red lines, it’s pretty obvious he’s not telling the truth now. If you need a moment to hie thyself to a fainting couch to deal with the shock that Obama would say something untrue, I will wait a moment. Now, in the cable news and twitter cycle, this will be fodder for a lot of psychoanalysis about Obama’s political persona and his refusal to take responsibility. And that’s all fair game as far as I am concerned. I think Ramesh pretty much nailed it on twitter: “So we’re going to go to war to defend the credibility of a comment Obama won’t take responsibility for.” | ||
| Xdigitalx |
CWC members of the world: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:CWC_Participatio n.svg I believe the world should bring Assad and his country to it's knees for using CW, (competed in 1 or 2 days). Then invite Assad make a plee on international TV to ask the world for forgiveness. If he does not comply, then I believe we should bring his country back to the age (via bomb/drone/sanctions) when the first CW treaty was Signed into International Law at Geneva on June 17, 1925 until he complies. It be just like some kid getting left back a couple years... they eventually make it thru and prosper. | ||
| Sifo |
On a somewhat related topic (perhaps very related), packing up from work today, someone from another area of the shop was over in our area and was talking about how he didn't like it last time he was being shot at. I was just walking up as he was saying this, but it was apparent that he was talking about time in the military, so I asked what war(s) he was involved in. Turns out he was in the second go around in Iraq. Then he launched into a couple more stories, one of which struck a chord. He was talking about blowing up shells in a weapons dump that was supposed to be all conventional shells. Turns out a bunch of sarin gas shells were mixed in and not marked as such and they released a huge cloud of sarin gas as a result. Mind you, there was nothing political is his stories, just what he dealt with during his time in the sandbox. No wonder we never found any WMDs. We accidentally blew them all up! | ||
| Ducbsa |
http://cdn.pjmedia.com/instapundit/wp-content/uplo ads/2013/09/OBAMAWARSAREAWESOME.jpg | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.anncoulter.com/columns/2013-09-04.html The consensus seems to be that the Congress is being set up as fall guy, no matter which way they vote. Sorta Brilliant on Obama's part, in an evil overlord way. Typical of his decisive responsibility taking, too. If so, then I suggest Congress "just say no". At least they'll be on record as opposing this temper tantrum/reasoned response, and if/when Obama ignores them and attacks, maybe we can offer him as a sacrifice to Putin. It's not like the law, or any congressional opinion is going to make a difference to Barry. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Coulter nailed it. From the start I thought there is no good answer here. Obama's staff made it worse by making statements they should have thought through, but the real problem is there with or without any US president. Neither intervention or non intervention are easy decisions (which I suppose means we should not intervene). My big beef with this from the beginning was the double standards from the liberal left. If the Obama administration words and actions are even a little bit reasonable here, the Bush administrations were bold, brave, genius heroes. Coulter lays out the case as clearly as can be. Instead, I'd argue that Iraq and Afghanistan were very difficult situations with no easy answer where we chose an intervention and it turned out to be much more painful than we hoped, but much better than a lot of other awful options. If that's the case, then this situation, where it seems equally plausible that the rebels would have gassed their own citizens, to draw a US intervention, or perhaps rogue elements in the Assad army acted, seems to be one where we should demand exceptionally compelling and clear intelligence and broad support for action before intervening. It was great hearing NPR falling all over themselves yesterday trying to defend the candidate they went to great lengths to get elected, while trying to stick to their "Bush was just a warmongering idiot and that's all there is to the story" world view. I wish both sides would admit and have a rational discussion about how hard a problem it is. Politically, we need to grow up, but I don't know how we can do it with all the entrenched power centers (social conservatives, social liberals, corporate interests, media bias, wishful thinking low information voters, etc). | ||
| Xdigitalx |
IMHO,... Bush was 100% right and Obama will be. It should have been done already. This may be our chance to strike first or all those canisters are going to end up somewhere else and bite us in the ass in a year or two. | ||
| Macbuell |
Xdigital ... the problem with that thought is that, according to what I have read, the attacks won't even target the chemical weapons. Weapons that I am sure have been moved in the weeks that Obama has been lobbying to attack Syria. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
So what... that's like letting a man-eating tiger loose in your neighborhood and just letting him be, hoping he goes away, while you walk your kids to school thinking you will be able to protect them. I say go get the job DONE...THAT is sending a crystal clear message to the world and to the CW users. At least get it started ... can't finish anything till you start it. I am sure there is more "intelligence" to what is available for us to read. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd ed&v=Ob_lEJIR6M4 | ||
| Reindog |
Micheal Reagan has written an inciteful editorial comparing Obama to Reagan.
Presidential Dithering | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
I'd have have thought a few well chosen & well trained locals equipped with untraceable Barrett 50 rifles would be adequate. | ||
| Macbuell |
Oh boy. Things just got really complicated. I think Putin thinks Obama is a big time wimp and is pushing him. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/09/05/putin-g reets-obama-with-syria-threat/ PUTIN GREETS OBAMA WITH SYRIA THREAT - President Obama arrived in Russia today to find the already failing relations with his host in even worse condition. Russian President Vladimir Putin’s threat to provide his Syrian allies with a missile shield in the event of U.S. air strikes further complicates Obama’s flagging effort to win international support for an attack on Damascus. As the Guardian reports, Putin’s warning that an attack without UN backing would provoke military aid from Russia may drive away the handful of international partners for Obama’s proposed attack. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
One person should tell Putin that Obama is Bisexual... another person should tell Obama that it is common in Russia to wink and give a slight smirk every 30 secs while in conversation and then suggest he should compliment Putin on his shirtless photos. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.infowars.com/video-syrian-rebel-admits- using-chemical-weapons/ I take anything on this website with skepticism. IMHO you should apply the same caution to "News" from them as to AP or NBC. http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2013/09/05/201268/russi a-releases-100-page-report.html#.Uiki553D-os Again, this is what the Russians are saying, so use judgment. The Soviet Union was based on lies, lived on lies and only Idiots and Leftists believed them. ( was that redundant? ) The New Russia is run by Former KGB, so......... Besides, Russia is deeply involved with Assad. Can't Trust Them. The Bad Guys. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleea st/syria/10289944/Syria-crisis-al-Qaeda-seizes-vil lage-that-still-speaks-the-ancient-language-of-Chr ist.html http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/05/world/middleeast /brutality-of-syrian-rebels-pose-dilemma-in-west.h tml?hp&_r=0 And politics. Which I'm just numb to at this point. http://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispe rs/2013/09/05/alan-grayson-syria-intelligence-mani pulated Because Madness seems epidemic. http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/04/florida-man- cites-bush-doctrine-after-pre-emptive-killing-of-n eighbors-at-labor-day-cookout/ May the Gods Protect us all. | ||
| Oldog |
One person should tell Putin that Obama is Bisexual... another person should tell Obama that it is common in Russia to wink and give a slight smirk every 30 secs while in conversation and then suggest he should compliment Putin on his shirtless photos. Some how I don't think I would enjoy Nuclear winter, ALTHOUGH the thought of the prank is quite amusing, Vlad has got to wonder about barry, truth is President Putin as got to have better intel on him than we do. I am concerned in that President Putin found it necessary to call john kerry out, ( the guy who threw his medals over the White House fence as a protest for Vietnam and is now ready to start bombing Syria??) and call him a LIAR strong words and action for a head of state. we need to pay attention, | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Do you really trust our government? | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Do you really trust our government? I don't trust ANY government! | ||
| 46champ |
Grumpy your a smart man | ||
| Reindog |
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| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/article/357767/obama -rushes-war-language-charles-c-w-cooke “I don’t believe we’re going to war,” a flustered Kerry told the House. “I just don’t believe that.” Majorities in both houses of the legislature are presumably set to confirm this assessment. And so they should. So farcical have the linguistic games become that we have reached a point at which Congress is being instructed that, Assad having crossed a red line that the executive branch didn’t set, it must accord the executive branch the permission that it doesn’t need to start a war that isn’t a war. At this point I think Congress SHOULD pass a resolution to use force in Syria. Coupled with the articles of Impeachment. Let Obama Sign that. Let us consider Obama's war in Libya. Lead from behind. ( I've already pre ordered the porn video with that name....  ) http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/africa/spe cial-report-we-all-thought-libya-had-moved-on--it- has-but-into-lawlessness-and-ruin-8797041.html Politics aside, ( and this issue is PURE politics, ego, and lies ) The following is the best, and most accurate, summation of the situation at hand I have read. http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/syria/articles/201 30903.aspx#startofcomments For a take from smarter folk than I. http://www.jerrypournelle.com/chaosmanor/?p=15285 | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.michaelyon-online.com/syria-outrage-is- not-a-strategy.htm http://www.cnn.com/2013/08/27/opinion/gingrich-syr ia-stay-out/index.html While we're on the subject of little children murdered with Chemical Weapons...... Do we agree that those who murder children with chemical weapons ( Like Saddam Hussein ) should be subject to prosecution? ( missile strikes, black ops, arrest, trail, execution, whatever? ) Can/should we Prosecute the "actual" murderers? The ones who pull the trigger. Or, is this a case of "just following orders" ( as it may be in Syria, IF it was Assad's army ) and should the blame, the arrest, the trial go to the Leader whose troops murdered the children with Chemical Weapons? What if the leader gave no such order? It has been alleged that The President didn't order the gas attack, but simply ordered his minions to deal with it. The use of Chemical weapons was NOT a direct order. ( in Assad's Case his Brother has been blamed ) So do we strike Assad? Pinpoint target his Brother? Capture and hold for trial any involved? Do we capture, try and execute the Leader for Chemical Weapon attacks that kill multiple children? Is it a number thing or a moral thing? I mean, if someone gases to death a thousand, Some want to go to war. ( In many circumstances, I'd be one of them ) So, a thousand is grounds for prosecuting the murderer, right? ( apparently, per Obama ) It's a numerical limit, right? Or is it Moral? A hundred? Less than a Hundred? More than one? One? Where is the limit, and is there one at all? If it was Under a Hundred, would that be cause for prosecution? Because, IIRC Texas does not have a statute of limitations for mass murder. And less than a hundred children were murdered with Chemical Weapons in Texas. Any answers/opinions on my questions? | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2013/09/06/kerrys- new-defense-of-syrian-action-doing-nothing-means-m ore-extremist-rebels/ Why I trust Vladimir Putin more than Kerry. ( Also, I'm not sure Putin has committed Treason. I have no doubts about Kerry ) For Perspective I trust Putin as far as I can throw a M1 Abrams Tank. ( I'm NOT the Hulk, so the distance can be measured with a micrometer ) | ||
| Kenm123t |
The real reason for the war Is ASSAD Is getting rich by blocking a natural gas pipeline to Europe! Why do you think Putin is backing ASSAD If the Saudis etc get the market in Europe GAZPROM will go broke and Putin won't let it happen Putin would loose the Income holding the country to gather and his Influence over Europe. China will lose in the short term But Look Willing to flex some muscle over the looting of the Mideast. When shtf they want their piece of the oil. If this goes to Chaos the locals will find themselves Colonies again. If push comes to shove the Chinese and Ruskies will exterminate all of the Arabs to get the oil and gas. They both have Neutron Bombs Clinton Gore admin gave them to China | ||
| Reindog |
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| Oldog |
The real reason for the war Is ASSAD Is getting rich by blocking a natural gas pipeline to Europe! This is an interesting assertion, how do you know? If we instigate hostilities its a loose loose. I make this statement in light of the fact that most of the public-ally information indicates that that alqueda / iran is propping up the rebels. alq - asd bad and bad. mr obama has a history of making [ mostly bad ] decisions for terrible reasons, The Russians seem to be following the rules as far as chem weap reporting goes, If your assertions are correct that gives more Reason to Putin's position, none the less, why is it a problem. The Russians have nukes and gas and oil which do you want sold? they need the money. If we had the reserves would we not want to sell it for profit? | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.thenation.com/blog/176040/obamas-syria- war-really-about-iran-and-israel# I'm not sure what to think beyond a brooding certainty that this is going to go badly based on previous experience with this administration. And Congress. If we had the reserves would we not want to sell it for profit? Actually we do have the reserves, they are just not being properly exploited for a variety of reasons, some good, some bad. The subject deserves it's own thread, politics as well as ecological, and long term economic issues are involved. I've long wondered if the master plan has always been to use everyone else's oil before exploiting ours. ( I don't think they're that smart, but I could be wrong ) The natural gas line Assad is "blocking", is that from Iran, Iraq, or the gulf, and where does it go? There's a logic in Russia wanting a near monopoly on European Energy, and the region is a choke point geographically. That's why the middle east has been torn by war and invasions since before known written history. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/357834/moral- hazard-jonah-goldberg a different opinion. http://www.nationalreview.com/article/357858/drawi ng-al-qaeda-red-line-andrew-c-mccarthy another. |
