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Sifo
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 01:46 pm: | 
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One last point before heading off to work... Egypt and the Muslim Brotherhood is a very poor example of maintaining control through tyranny. They have pretty much legalized genocide against their detractors. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 05:22 pm: |
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Only half of us voted for bo. The vast majority of Egyptians are Muslim and according to polls, endorse radical muslim principles. |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 06:34 pm: |
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....instead of just reading what the (mostly right wing) press decide to tell you,.....
Nope, never been to Egypt. I have a policy to not go to anyplace where insulting the King gets me killed. Under Morsi, that included Egypt. ( I also avoid NYC lately & sneak through Chicago ) I agree that the "press" is very biased, that the editors have an agenda, and not bothering to report news is the most common form of self censorship. I am curious what Press you consider "mostly right wing"? With very few exceptions, like Glenn Beck's Blaze, or National Review, most seem to me to be pretty leftist. Please expand on that.
Were YOU getting "all is well and no one is oppressed" news?
Egypt in the countryside is I'm sure little affected by change of dictators. There's an old Russian Saying, Don't wish for the Czar to die, you don't know who'll replace him. Mostly, if you keep your head down, and the Glorious Leader isn't a Religious fanatic who's faith calls for all to be of the faith, slaves until dead, or dead, it's just the color of the tax collectors uniform that changes.
When it IS a Glorious Leader who wants submission to HIS faith, then you have problems, city, country, everywhere.
I agree about the arbitrary nature of many "nations" since WW1. The Brits & French, mostly, divided up zones of influence based on minerals & agricultural desires, with zip thought for tribal/clan territories. Iraq is a great example of that, as is Yugoslavia. ( Bonus trivia question, what element is responsible for the exact location of the N/S Korean Border? )
And, yes, a brutal dictator can keep a lid on violence in the mixed by force countries that we got stuck with after WW1. But that's not a real good reason to have one. More often, the dictator himself tries to hold power for his own tribal group. See Saddam Hussien, B Assad, etc.
Ps. Trojan, have you heard of "Churchill's Burp"? There is a bump in the Iraq/Arabia border that has no known reason or purpose. Not a tribal, waterway, anything difference. The story is that when they were dividing up the region, They were having lunch, and Churchill burped while drawing it....
Don't know that's what really happened, But it's believable. The arbitrary, imperialist division you speak of was well visited in the TV show "The Young Indiana Jones Chronicles".
The US was not involved very much in this process, and our Prez objected, but Britania Ruled, and we were just upstarts at the time. ( Upstarts that pushed the balance of power, and saved the Allies, but still a Jr. partner in the after war "diplomacy".)
Hoot, less than half voted for bo.
I don't know that "most Egyptians" would welcome a dictator. I know that the current US Regime aided the now deposed dictator in getting power, and seems to still want to back him. Based on past performance, That seems bad. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Thursday, July 11, 2013 - 09:00 am: |
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I don't know that "most Egyptians" would welcome a dictator.
I think most Egyptians just want a Government that can do something about crippling debt and give them a reasonable quality of life, pretty much lke the rest of us.
If that happens to be a 'reasonably' effective and tolerant military government then I think they would take that happily as they did for many years before they took it too far, which resulted in Morsi and his lot getting themselves elected.
The 'West' aided the last military government in Egypt because they were tolerant towards Israel, were anti Iran and helped keep the other Arab nations in line. Once they went it was anyone's guess who would take over, which of course our politicians don't like.
We also supported and equipped Saddam Hussein for many years too remember (and a long list of other dictators/despots worldwide) in order to further our own political doctrines and desires. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, July 11, 2013 - 09:18 pm: |
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>>> We also supported and equipped Saddam Hussein for many years too remember (and a long list of other dictators/despots worldwide) in order to further our own political doctrines and desires.
Right, with Russian tanks and aircraft, Chinese missiles, and homemade poison. Well Germany and France did sell Saddam the chem stuff. |
Blake
| | Posted on Friday, July 12, 2013 - 09:07 am: |
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>>> and a long list of other dictators/despots worldwide
Always boggles my mind how some seem so eager to blame the nations the tend to most vehemently oppose tyranny and oppression. The idea that the UK and America ought to be held morally equivalent to the likes of China, N. Korea, Cuba, Venezuela, Iran, Pol Pot's Cambodia, Miloscevic's Yugoslavia, Stalin/USSR, Hitler/Naziism, Vietnam, Syria, Saddam's Iraq, the Taliban, Saudia Arabia, Somalia, and every other Islamist infested hell-hole is just untenable.
It's like the libs in the West don't dare speak truth to evil, since at one time our national policy may have been ill-conceived.
I'd still like to see that "long list" though. Let the brainwashing continue.
Matt,
Don't you recall your view on the Egyptian revolution and the moslem brotherhood a few years back? You were dead wrong then too. And let's be clear, the issue is not what the people want or feel, agreeing that most just want to live their lives in peace and decent prosperity. The issue is about what type of people end up in power. Islamists of any stripe = bad news for peace, liberty, and justice. |
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