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Tpoppa
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 09:23 am: | 
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The fours get higher engine speeds and higher volumetric efficiency (8 intake valves vs 4 for the twin).
But they gain it through the benefit if double the cylinders, valves, throttle bodies...
Those sound like good reasons to choose an I4 as the motor for a racebike. Thanks. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 09:23 am: |
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"I'd really like to see someone make an I6 superbike around 900cc."
The CBX was close, at 1047. I wouldn't call it a superbike, at least not by today's standards. Back in the day though... |
Fast2win
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 09:32 am: |
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Just a quick look back to wsb winners. In the last 24 yrs. Ducati has won 14 of those championships, hardly a disadvantage. Nuff said. |
Tankhead
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 10:34 am: |
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The fours get higher engine speeds and higher volumetric efficiency (8 intake valves vs 4 for the twin).
But they gain it through the benefit if double the cylinders, valves, throttle bodies...
Those sound like good reasons to choose an I4 as the motor for a racebike. Thanks.
 hahaha |
Bob_thompson
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 11:41 am: |
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I believe there is a pretty simple solution to keep things more even in AMA racing: Base all classes strickly on H.P. to weight ratio regardless of CC's. NO penalties for displacement like adding weight. This is already being done in many other forms of racing, AND IT WORKS WELL. Whether the H.P. is through RPM's favoring the inlines or displacement favoring the V-twins it would even things out fairly well. Politics and money play a big part in just who gets an advantage in all types of racing and thats a shame.
Also, wasn't that the way (limiting max H.P.) the DSB class was regulated in 2009 when Buell won the championship?
(Message edited by Bob_thompson on March 20, 2013) |
Sifo
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 11:47 am: |
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I believe there is a pretty simple solution to keep things more even in AMA racing: Base all classes strickly on H.P. to weight ratio regardless of CC's.
That would really be interesting and would likely provide some tangible benefits to normal street riders simply because they would have incentive to tune for a broad power band instead of peak HP. It makes so much sense that it's probably close to impossible to ever make it happen. |
Tpoppa
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 01:00 pm: |
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Also, wasn't that the way (limiting max H.P.) the DSB class was regulated in 2009 when Buell won the championship?
The rules for 2009 DSB made for the some close, entertaining races. If it was strictly based on HP, the GSXR750 should have been eligible. There were more to the rules than just HP.
(Message edited by tpoppa on March 20, 2013) |
Blake
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 10:52 pm: |
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Adding a bunch of complexity is smart, but adding displacement is dumb? Care to explain that?
If your criteria is that the absolute most advanced and high performing engine configuration ought to be used, then why use the underperforming IL4 when a turbo-charged 500cc two-stroke would be so much faster? Because the rules prevent it, just like they limit the competitiveness of a twin cyl machine by tacking on a bunch of extra weight.
Don't get stuck on stupid. MotoGP rules had all engines limited to the same displacement. If they had allowed a fair bump in displacement for the simpler engines, to allow them to be competitive, then they would have been. It's that simple.
It wasn't that long ago that the Ducati twin was obliterating its IL4 challengers in WSBK. Then the whining began.
It was just a couple years ago that the Pegasus Raceteam EBR1190RR piloted by Harald Kitsch blew away all the competition in Open Superbike in Germany. Where was your imagined supremacy of 4 cyl engines there? Answer, the rules weren't fixed for their advantage, so they had none. The old 1190RR beat them all.
The 1190RS is quite a bit better than the 1125RR derived 1190RR.
Educate yourself on the topic. It ain't the engine configuration that is the issue. You might as well be demanding to know why no red bikes have won in AMA SBK. Paint the bike blue you say?
it's called "false logic" for a good reason.  |
Kevmean
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 20, 2013 - 11:23 pm: |
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And just to add to this ................ how many current Buell owners would have even bought into the marque if they had been inline 4's? .......... I for one wouldn't and I think most of the UK Buellers are the same .... we bought Buell because we wanted something different.
If everything on the grid was an inline 4 we might as well just run one make series and let the best rider win  |
Bob_thompson
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 11:43 am: |
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Blake, if I'm reading you right I agree with you.
Do you find something wrong with H.P. and weight limits no matter what the engine configuration is? Not saying anything should be regulated on chassis development though.
Then we have riders, pit crews, strategy, engine building, race preparation and durability being more prominent in determining winners and also runs.
Some have said it stops advancements in technology but I disagree. It advances it for all teams evenly. I do watch all forms of racing and AMA could take some hints from highly successful venues. Some of the closest racing in the world happends when most things are as equal as it can be and AMA is still some of the best.
Other thoughts?
(Message edited by Bob_thompson on March 21, 2013) |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, March 21, 2013 - 11:14 pm: |
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I'd prefer a logical formula for engine parity and the same weight limits. The more freedom, the better. |
Phelan
| | Posted on Sunday, March 31, 2013 - 11:48 am: |
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Here's a thought: what if AMA and WSBK limited entrants to 4 intake and 4 exhaust valves? How quickly would the manufacturers run to produce V-Twins then? Racing with design rules is just designing to the best advantage in the rules. |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Monday, April 01, 2013 - 07:45 am: |
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Back on topic somewhat, I checked the EPA website yesterday for the latest list of emissions approved motorcycles. No listings for EBR for 2013 on the list just updated March 2013. The 1190RS is on the 2012 list. The 2014 motorcycle listings aren't up yet. My guess is the first indication we'll have that the production bikes are on the way is when the 2014 motorcycle listings are posted, if EBR models are included. |
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