| Author | Message | ||
     Hughlysses |
The new engine, designed since Polaris bought out Indian, was revealed a few minutes ago:  https://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/introduction/video/pages/3d-engine-detail.aspx?WT.ac=IND-camp-home It has some real technical innovations while they managed to make it look a lot like an Indian flathead V-twin. Several technical details match S&S's "Wedge" V-twin; I wonder if they were involved? At any rate, I think it's pretty cool. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Detailed technical article on the new engine by Kevin Cameron at Cycle World: http://www.cycleworld.com/2013/03/09/exclusive-ins ide-the-all-new-indian-thunder-stroke-111-v-twin-e ngine/?src=facebook | ||
| Argentcorvid |
3 cams, huh? that's interesting. | ||
| Torquehd |
seems like a nice motor. the vid is cool. | ||
| Hughlysses |
3 cams, huh? that's interesting. That's one thing that made me think it might be derived from the S&S "X-Wedge" engine. The X-Wedge also has 3-cams, wedge shaped (i.e.- non-hemi) combustion chambers, and a forged crank with plain bearings and parallel (rather than knife and fork) connecting rods. The X-Wedge is however not unitary (it has a separate transmission) and uses belt drive of the cams while this has chain drive. It may be that the Polaris engineers just independently wound up with a very similar engine configuration. | ||
| Crusty |
Interesting... Very Interesting. I wonder if H-D will counter with a "New" parts bin special? Something really earth shattering like the "48" or the "72"? Maybe it's time for a refurb of the V-Rod? Nah; Wandell will change very little to keep their "Core" customer happy. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
It does look like the Xwedge engine internally but there are many differences too. S&S must have helped. | ||
| Leftcoastal |
"The X-Wedge is however not unitary (it has a separate transmission)" True, but they do have a unit construction motor that is in the newer Confederate "Hellcat". (If you like looking at interesting CNC work, check that out) I just hope the new Indian gets a full chassis re-design to match that nice motor. I rode a couple of the Gilroy versions in years past, and they handled kinda like a road grader, but without the nimble factor. Having owned a stock 48 Chief for a number of years, I'm glad to see that the Indian name is finally being put on a bike that isn't an assembly of aftermarket Harley Evo bits with big fenders. Those things were an embarrassment. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Beautiful looking motor! | ||
| Tootal |
Polaris could have sold a lot more Victory's if they had that engine!! That's a work of art! Will be interesting to see the comparison between the Indian and Victory engines. I'm going to assume the Victory is more powerful but riding is about more that just power. | ||
| Ulynut |
Wait and see. The Gilroy Power Plus was supposed to be the shizzle too. Those motors blew up at 15,000 miles. I would really love to see Indian come back for real this time. | ||
| Teeps |
Never liked the Gilroy engine, appearance wise; this is what it should have looked like. | ||
| 46champ |
Nice looking engine has fixes for most of the things I don't really care for in the big twin. Final drive on opposite side from primary drive. Multiple camshafts, You don't need to be a mathematician to figure out cam timing. Unit construction engine. Wonder if it will have a separate oil supply for the tranny. Clutch looks like a Barnett Scorpion. Plain bearing rods. Looks good wonder how much. | ||
| Xl1200r |
That's one thing that made me think it might be derived from the S&S "X-Wedge" engine. The X-Wedge also has 3-cams, wedge shaped (i.e.- non-hemi) combustion chambers, and a forged crank with plain bearings and parallel (rather than knife and fork) connecting rods. While it's interesting that they both have these things in common, none of them are particularly novel approaches. We have to keep in mind that they way Harley (and air-cooled Buells) build engines are not really industry norms. The three cam thing is interesting - obviously one cam per valve allows you to get the most optimal valvetrain geometry, but I'm guessing they went with 3 as a "good enough" measure and because it was close enough to get those pushrod tubes to be parallel, which I'd bet was the design goal. It's a damned pretty engine, I'll give it that. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Wonder if it will have a separate oil supply for the tranny. 46champ- according to one of the articles, it uses a single, shared oil supply. | ||
| Rich |
I saw it yesterday at Destination Daytona. It looked good and was drawing a big crowd. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
It is a very cool looking motor. Very retro yet modern.. | ||
| 46champ |
Looks good because it looks like something futuristic from the Art Deco era. Or maybe what someone from the art deco era would think the future would be. Or is this the ultimate steam punk. | ||
| 46champ |
I may be wrong after doing some research the design fits in more with Streamline Moderne | ||
| Jaimec |
COOL! Check out the first bike into which they've mounted that new engine!! | ||
| Argentcorvid |
for comparison purposes, here is a bike with an X-wedge in it that i found:  some differences, but some similarities too. (Message edited by argentcorvid on March 12, 2013) | ||
| Hughlysses |
There are a lot of similarities in the X-Wedge and the new Indian engine but as someone said that may just be a result of 2 separate teams arriving at the same conclusions for their designs. Both engines are air-cooled, pushrod, 3-cam, hydraulic lifter, "wedge" combustion chamber, plain bearing, 1-piece forged crankshaft, V-twins. Aside from the cosmetic differences, the X-Wedge has a 56 degree "V" and belt drive cams while the Indian engine has a 49 degree "V" and chain drive cams. It seems like a very good bet that the Polaris design team at least studied the X-Wedge design since it was the newest "clean sheet design" pushrod air-cooled V-twin prior to the Indian. The unanswered question is whether there was any actual collaboration between Polaris and S&S. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Oh yeah! I didn't even think of the V-angle. Perhaps they used S&S parts like pistons, heads, valves? Seems too close to be a coincidence to me but I see now that there are many differences too. Perhaps it was like Buell working with Rotax to make the 1125 engine? | ||
| Jaimec |
You don't think a company the size of Polaris isn't capable of building and designing engines inhouse? Who built the Victory Freedom V-Twin? | ||
| Luftkoph |
$$$$$$ | ||
| 46champ |
The unanswered question is whether there was any actual collaboration between Polaris and S&S. The way to tell is to research any patents that S&S received on the Xwedge and see if there is a conflict. | ||
| Teeps |
I don't really care where, or who's mind, it came from; lets hear it make some noise! | ||
| Hughlysses |
I don't really care where, or who's mind, it came from; lets hear it make some noise! Here you go: https://www.indianmotorcycle.com/en-us/introductio n/video/pages/engine-sound.aspx?WT.ac=IND-camp-ani m-exp They actually put this out a couple of months ago. | ||
| Anonymous |
There was no collaboration between S&S and Polaris in development of this engine, although the 2 companies have business agreements unrelated to Product Development. Here are the 2 S&S patents that have been awarded. You need to download a viewer to see the full version of the patent. You can decide for yourself about any possible infringements. http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PT O2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-b ool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=viola.ASCI .&OS=AC/viola&RS=AC/viola http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PT O2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-b ool.html&r=4&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PTXT&s1=viola.ASCI .&OS=AC/viola&RS=AC/viola There is another application pending approval http://appft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PT O2&Sect2=HITOFF&p=1&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-b ool.html&r=2&f=G&l=50&co1=AND&d=PG01&s1=viola.ASCI .&OS=AC/viola&RS=AC/viola | ||
| Hughlysses |
Anony- thanks for the info. Sure would like to see what EBR could do for a clean-sheet air-cooled/pushrod/hydraulic lifter V-twin... | ||
| Firstbuell |
I can't wait for the first custom to use this engine [bead-blasted] in a rigid frame/girder fork with OEM tins vintage looks with modern "GO"..... (Message edited by firstbuell on March 14, 2013) | ||
| Crusty |
That "GO" will disappear pretty quickly if the bike has the Original skirted fenders. They act as parachutes as the speed goes up, and will kill a lot of performance. Why do you think people bobbed the fenders on bikes in the '40s? |
