| Author | Message | ||
     Fast1075 |
I had begun a morning ritual. Go by the local Wally World every morning at 6:00 am to see if any 22LR ammo came in overnight. Last week I happened upon some boxes of Federal AutoMatch. They only let me get 3 boxes. This morning I stopped by, and the ammo cabinet was bare except for some odd caliber stuff. The sporting goods guy told me to not bother looking for ammo because they are not selling any more once the existing stock is sold out. Web search of Wally World seems to confirm. They are not listing any ammo that is not on the shelves, at least in my area. And at the LGS/Range where I have a membership, the "ammo for range use only" is in effect too. In fact, when I was there last week checking in for some range time, someone was wanting to rent a pistol, but they had no 22LR at all. I GAVE the range owner a box of Blazers as a goodwill jesture, just so he could potentially sell a pistol. They had some bricks of M-22 in stock on the shelf for all to see last night,but not for sale. Kinda pissed me off. I have been buying all my shooting supplies and accessories there (other than the "range ammo") in spite of paying more. (I have this odd loyalty thing at times). No more. The new stock for my rifle, the new optics for my pistols and whatever else is coming from "best price/best service" where ever that happens to be. I'm not even going to leave brass from my 22's for them to recycle. To sum this up. If ammo is unavailable, what use are guns other than as high tech clubs? | ||
| Rick_a |
It's not the gun stores fault people are buying up all available ammunition. Things will settle down eventually. | ||
| Notpurples2 |
Gotta keep firearms out of the public and only in the hands of "competent" law enforcement... Cops shot a mother and daughter in truck and rammed another truck during manhunt. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2013/02/torr ance-shootings.html http://www.examiner.com/article/lapd-shoots-71-yea r-old-woman-and-her-daughter-by-mistake-during-dor ner-manhunt gotta love how a light blue Toyota Tacoma and a black Honda both match the description of the suspects vehicle. Was the description "a truck of some sort"? Wonder if cops will be fired for shooting unarmed civilians. It's amazing that the women were not killed. I actually had to hunt for articles on this incident, they didn't pop up on any main pages. (Message edited by notpurples2 on February 13, 2013) | ||
| Sifo |
Didn't this whole thing with Dorner start with accusations of LAPD using excessive force? Now it ends with the LAPD shooting up innocent people driving in their cars and purposely burning down a cabin with the suspect inside. I have some real issues with Dorner, but it seems that he had some pretty valid points to make. | ||
| J2blue |
Those were terrible mistakes made by the officers who opened fire on the wrong truck, and I hope the city stands up to do the right thing and properly compensate them. But it was a mistake. Whether Dorner had been a cop or not doesn't matter in this equation at all, other than the extra protection the police were forced to take. He was off balance, but not criminally insane for most of his adult life. We only know this in retrospect because of the attention he drew to himself by shooting(and killing) the daughter of a police captain he hated. And he also shot and killed the daughter's fiance. A week later he ambushes and kills an actual police officer, who he probably didn't know and had not included on his hit list. Yesterday he killed a sheriff deputy. During his 15 minutes of fame he also injured many others. He made a choice to kill without just cause many innocent lives. Whatever short comings the LAPD may still have does not justify what he did. He deserves no sympathy. He made his intent clear, and demonstrated his ability to kill more officers, there is nothing heavy handed with burning him up in the home he invaded to use as his final stand. He was killed, terminated to prevent the further bloodshed of policemen and civilians. He got what he asked for, literally. His manifesto might as well have been about tax attorneys, or how grandma cheated on bingo. The object of his projected rage had nothing to do with his rage, or the actions he took to assuage it. He WAS NOT justified in killing anyone. The Sheriff's Office, and not the LAPD, were completely JUSTIFIED IN KILLING DORNER. And they were justified in doing it as expeditiously as possible, with extreme prejudice to prevent him from possibly killing anyone else. Much will be revealed about the tactics employed by the Sheriff's Office in the final showdown Dorner picked. It is a rare event for an agency to have a shoot to kill order, but I'm pretty sure the responding officers did have one during part of yesterdays stand off. Don't fall for cheap trends on social websites that want to make a martyr out of this felon. Get to know something about the lives of each of the people he killed, and their surviving families; develop empathy for their stories first. Then go back and revisit his grievances and see if his case merits any sympathy at all. | ||
| Sifo |
J2blue, I have to agree with almost everything you just said. I do take exception with this however... there is nothing heavy handed with burning him up in the home he invaded to use as his final stand. He was killed They had him contained, and could have waited him out. They had no way of knowing that he didn't have others held inside at the time. Burning the house isn't exactly what I would call precision elimination of the threat. Eventually he would have to sleep. There have been potential opportunities to bring this to a better end with more time. He wasn't going anywhere at that point. | ||
| Ulyranger |
Imagine if That was your private property the Sheriff decided to burn to the ground? He was contained, surveil the perimeter and take the opportunity as it presents itself. Further they better hope there were no other civilians in there..... | ||
| Blake |
>>> Those were terrible mistakes made by the officers who opened fire on the wrong truck, and I hope the city stands up to do the right thing and properly compensate them. But it was a mistake. Such mistakes are rightly called "manslaughter", and demand justice! "Mistakes"??? Negligent homocide is more like it. Trigger happy bastards. | ||
| Boltrider |
Yeah, that was way more than a mistake. I hope the department has their feet held to the fire over that one. But as they say, "it's not how it happens, it's how we write it up." | ||
| Blake |
>>> Get to know something about the lives of each of the people he killed, and their surviving families; develop empathy for their stories first. How may I know that he actually murdered anyone or was even the true author of the FBook manifesto? This whole thing stinks. Seems way too much like a deeply corrupt gangster setup. But I have no idea. I do know that it stinks and that the cops behaved like rabid gangsters out to snuff a turncoat. | ||
| Boltrider |
And the LAPD is not above acting like corrupt gangsters, as evidenced by the Rampart scandal. | ||
| Ulyranger |
The California Highway Patrol issued a "blue alert" for nine Southern California counties. Officials said Dorner is believed to be driving a 2005 blue or gray Nissan Titan, with California license plate 8D83987 or 7X09131. PHOTOS: Manhunt for ex-LAPD officer Police said they believe he may be switching between the two license plates. Dorner is described as a black male, 33 years old, 6 feet tall, weighing 270 pounds with black hair and brown eyes. His last known address is in La Palma." Wondering how this description jives with two hispanic women, the driver 71 y.o. In a blue Taco. Or some dude driving a Honda Ridgeline. I get the heightened awareness, but blazing shots away in a residential neighborhood is crazy. There were bullet strikes on houses. The potential to kill many unintended targets was very real. Know your target and it's environment, first rule in use of force scenario......these idiots violated that one with gusto. And politicians are worried about civilians with high capacity magazines...  | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/02/why_leftist s_should_fully_support_the_second_amendment.html http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/02/why_do_civi lians_need_assault_weapons.html http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/02/felons_for_ gun_control.html My position on attempted gun confiscation during natural disasters is, by the way, as follows: don't lie to a police officer by telling him you have no guns in the house. Say politely instead, "I do not wish to talk to you, Sir" (or Ma'am, or Officer). The officer cannot enter your home without either a warrant or probable cause that a crime is in progress. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.americanthinker.com/2013/02/new_yorks_s afe_act_the_rape_of_the_second_amendment.html I do not wish to talk to you, Officer. | ||
| J2blue |
Now I'm laughing. Can't stop. Oh well, I was going to add that I did see where the Sheriff's Office of San Bernardino County, and not the LAPD, said that they did not intend to burn the house down. I wasn't there, standing next to the officials in charge so my earlier statement was just a guess, but we can compare guesses can't we. I'm surprised that any deflection off the evil misdeeds of this individual are even showing up here. You want to give credence to the gun control advocates claims that all guns should be dumped in the sea(sorry Ronny)? I am not going to state that the accidental shooting, which to my knowledge did not(thankfully) result in a fatality, was justified. Nor will I defend the actions of any officer who may yet be found to have fired in error out of fear or excitement. But you have to factor in the state of mind that naturally results from being involved in an active shooter incident, which the manhunt could arguably be described as. Take exception with my opinion that allowing the house to burn down, or simply burning it down was not heavy handed if you like. The only consideration that I can make of what I have seen on the news reports tells me he was an active threat to any and all people in the vicinity and the amount of force used to enclose and kill him was justifiable, not heavy handed. Repeatedly he was offered the chance to surrender and repeatedly he killed law officers. What he did was unacceptable and they had every right to use lethal force. I'm a little shocked to see any of you finding fault with the Sheriff's Office handling of this situation. To pretend that they needed to be more concerned with a log cabin than the lives of civilians and officers that were obviously in mortal danger beggars the imagination. You can go on about being dissed by da man, which is what it smells like you are coming from, but I don't buy it. These are two different law enforcement agencies, which I will wager none of you have any recent direct contact with to make judgments of any soundness whatsoever. You can make cheap shots based on media reports and speculation that reinforce the image you want to hold. But come on? Dorner was a raging homicidal maniac in full aggression towards law enforcement and anyone else he thought was an impediment to his glory. If he had not died yesterday it seems as though you are willing to offer him sanctuary from what you are describing as out of control, heavy handed law enforcement agencies. Well, I take exception to that view, for sure. No, I don't take exception to you offering him sanctuary, assuming he was still alive it might now seem comical for you to offer him sanctuary, a homicidal maniac that is. I realize that some of you enjoy a good argument for the sake of argument, that is fine. But ridiculous is just that. And it is offensive in a really bad way to cast doubt on the circumstances in which a Sheriff's Officer and a Police Officer are killed in the line of duty which the previous 9 or so comments are doing. You are the peanut gallery, as am I. Why trample decency when it is way too early for any of us to know what has happened out there, huh? If the LAPD officers involved in the mistaken identity shooting are found to be negligent than immediate dismissal seems like the appropriate and minimal consequences. We will learn more about that incident, too, in time. I have no reason to claim that it will be covered up, or that it was the result of a pattern of corruption that hearkens back to the Rampart Scandal or Rodney King. That's just knee-jerk, lazy, BS thinking. Assuming the officers are found negligent in duty and dismissed, I also hope they are turned over for criminal prosecution if the circumstances warrant it. But even with that don't forget that Dorner is the one responsible for creating the circumstances in which they were reacting. Blake, as always I appreciate that this is your sandbox, so I'm not going to escalate this with you, even if that is what you want. I'll just have to believe you woke up on the wrong side of the bed or something, not sure. So if you must say it, go for it. For anyone else who doesn't get my drift, ok, but I'm still a staunch defender of your Second Amendment right, which is what this thread is/was about. Cheers! (Message edited by j2blue on February 13, 2013) (Message edited by j2blue on February 13, 2013) | ||
| J2blue |
As far as concern for the owners cabin goes, I think these words by the owner are spot on: "It was a big deal, but it doesn’t compare to what he [Dorner] did. It was a place where our family could go to,” he said. "All we can do is rebuild." | ||
| Blake |
Jody, I just don't trust the word of the LA police. At all. Stack on top of that the whole whistleblower aspect followed by the outrageous rabid gangster style shootings seeming to aim to take the guy out at any cost, well it really raises the stink register for me. How do we know the man actually killed anyone? I'm pretty ignorant of the case against him, having only heard accusations by those who've been trying to kill him. | ||
| Sifo |
J2blue, As I said before, I mostly agree with you. The idea that they didn't intend to burn the cabin down is absolutely comical. They were recorded in various ways, basically saying let's burn the MFer. They were actually talking about purposely burning a suspect alive, possibly along with other innocent people. That is beyond irresponsible. They had him contained, and they had the public out of the area. The police actually said that they didn't know if there were any hostages inside the cabin though. This is nothing but vigilantism by the very institution that is in place to prevent vigilantism. Bottom line, burning the cabin down wasn't the only option available, but it was one of the cruelest options available. I won't condone that. You say Dorner created the situation that lead to two vehicles with innocent civilians being shot upon. Again, I take great exception to this. The vehicles were clearly very different types and colors of vehicle, and the occupants couldn't have possibly been mistaken for Dorner. Unless they did something specific when pulled over that justified weapons to be fired, they are simply way out of line, and need to be removed from the Police force. The scary thing is that it was done TWICE! A single trigger happy officer can be dismissed as the exception. When you have two incidents within hours, something is drastically wrong. One last point, you claim that "Dorner was a raging homicidal maniac in full aggression towards law enforcement and anyone else he thought was an impediment to his glory". This is not supported by what we know. He first of all made it clear who was being targeted, and secondly limited himself to only shooting those targets. Police and their families. I make no excuse for this at all, but to say that he was running rampant killing people randomly is far from the truth. As far as concern for the owners cabin goes, I think these words by the owner are spot on: "It was a big deal, but it doesn’t compare to what he [Dorner] did. It was a place where our family could go to,” he said. "All we can do is rebuild." I wonder if they would have been so supportive of burning their cabin down had Dorner taken them hostage inside? That's the problem, the Police had already acknowledged that they didn't know if Dorner had any hostages. I take them at their word, when they said on Police channels, "let's burn the MFer". It was retribution for wrongs done against brothers in blue. That's wrong, and I can't be accepting of it. | ||
| Sifo |
Back on topic, this is how it's supposed to work! | ||
| J2blue |
Meanwhile, back in Second Amendment land: A Democratic Party controlled legislative body, which derives it's political base within the Denver metro area feels emboldened to ram the following legislation through. House Bill 1224 – Bans magazines with a capacity greater than fifteen rounds.(http://www.nramedia.org/t/1131565/82705250/21732/0 /) House Bill 1226 – Repeals current law allowing individuals with a concealed carry permit to carry a firearm for self-defense on a college or university campus. (http://www.nramedia.org/t/1131565/82705250/21733/0 /) House Bill 1228 – Imposes a “gun tax” for a background check when purchasing a firearm. (http://www.nramedia.org/t/1131565/82705250/21734/0 /) House Bill 1229 – Criminalizes the private transfer of a firearm.(http://www.nramedia.org/t/1131565/82705250/21735/0 /) The reason why these are more harmful to the Second Amendment than any similar federal bills is that law enforcement at the state and local level cannot ignore the enforcement of them - they can be removed from office for failing to enforce. The widespread support of law enforcement for the Second Amendment in the state of Colorado is being directly challenged. Whereas it has never been the legal responsibility of any local law enforcement to enforce federal statutes, it is a requirement of their office to enforce the state laws. The unanimous opposition among Colorado Sheriff's will be rendered moot and they will be forced to police these new laws until they can be overturned in court or new legislation can be passed. Many deputies and police officers will have to choose if they can remain in their posts with good conscience. It will be bad for the cause if they do leave, that will only increase the numbers of law enforcement officers who regrettably do wish to see guns removed from the hands of law abiding citizens. Sad, very sad, but we have to look for a silver lining and hope for the future. Support for the long haul has to be for the legal war chest to fight in court, and hopefully all the way to the Federal Supreme Court, to have these laws overturned as unconstitutional. In the meantime cooperation with those law enforcement who are truly on the side of the citizens in this debate would be greatly appreciated. Perhaps the best that citizens can do is avoid putting themselves and law enforcement in a situation where the laws must be enforced because knowledge of an infraction has occurred. Don't travel with any banned weapons or devices that increase the likelihood of discovery. Don't entrust anyone to a firearm you currently own that may use it illegally or recklessly. Keep all your weapons and ammunition out of the public eye as much as possible, even if that means burying those items that are directly made illegal. There is another vector of attack, though. To prevail requires directly challenging the soundness of mind of the politicians and supporters of bad legislation. We aren't talking about a popularity contest where all that matters is who gets the most votes. There is a right and wrong here that can be proven. Prove it in the courts of law and the realm of public approval. Don't be afraid to shun neighbors and friends who have openly supported bad laws. Spend extra money to get politicians elected who will support your most basic rights. The culture war is here and we have to fight it in our homes, houses of worship, and public places. Don't let them win the war, even if they may have won a temporary battle. I believe the actions in Colorado are indicative of a pattern of gun control victories. They are well equipped with money to place advertisements that are false and misleading(just heard one yesterday). They are willing to utilize every inch of their political capital on this singular issue. They will misuse the legislative process for as long as they remain in any majority. They will ignore any part of a constituency that opposes their simple aim to remove guns from law abiding citizens. And they are not ashamed to craft laws which will not have any effect on the stated goal for which they seek passage, namely reducing gun violence. They don't care about the truth in any objective way. They are guided by a faith in an ideology that men will cease committing evil acts if only guns are removed from the face of the earth. As our local sheriff said, "We have a people problem, not a gun problem!" (Message edited by j2blue on February 14, 2013) | ||
| Xbimmer |
http://www.guns.com/2013/02/13/gif-of-the-day-skee t-shooting-edition/ | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
here's bill from Mo. http://www.house.mo.gov/billtracking/bills131/bilt xt/intro/HB0545I.HTM | ||
| Cowboy |
should have sent for a coonass deer hunter. | ||
| Aesquire |
Ban the scary name. Define the scary name any damn way you please. "Cosmetic features" are the buzz word. Assault Weapons. Military Style Weapons. It's the brainwashing our very criminal AG spoke of. This plan has been around since the 1970's. It's well Documented. The path of lies is the path of the left. Tyrants hate armed peasants. Popularization of the term "assault weapon" is attributed by many to the 1988 book "Assault Weapons and Accessories in America", written by gun-control activist Josh Sugarmann, and to subsequent public reaction to the January 1989 Cleveland School massacre in Stockton, CA.[28] Sugarmann wrote: Assault weapons—just like armor-piercing bullets, machine guns, and plastic firearms—are a new topic. The weapons' menacing looks, coupled with the public's confusion over fully automatic machine guns versus semi-automatic assault weapons—anything that looks like a machine gun is assumed to be a machine gun—can only increase the chance of public support for restrictions on these weapons.[29][30] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assault_weapon Actually the term Assault weapon goes back to about 1975 when Handgun Control Inc. wrote the book on how to disarm honest citizens. ( now known as the Brady Center to Exploit a Crippled Guy who can't Object ) I wish I still had the book, but it's one of many loaned out and no longer in print. There is a book referring to HC inc's book at Amazon. "The Politics of Gun Control", by Robert J Spitzer. It covers a lot on this topic. Spitzer is NOT a gun fan. But. The bias is obvious, and a rational treatment otherwise. Love the video above... the way they have issues with the door...... Priceless! | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Obama said he wanted to get gun control done in his first 30 days this term. Thats almost up and I'm feeling he now knows it is almost fruitless to do very much, IF anything, in that realm at least its not very likely right now. I feel the same, thats its just not going to be very much at all with so much opposition. But I will still keep clinging to my Bible and my guns for the foreseeable future. | ||
| Reindog |
Bob, You can still get a lifetime NRA membership for $300. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Just saw a trailer for Red Dawn (the sequel) did that thing ever make it to the theaters ? I know the Chinese put up a fit about the enemy being 'China' so they had to change it to N. Korea..... A well armed and trained America is a safer America. | ||
| Darth_villar |
It was in theaters, pretty good in my opinion. Definitely worth a watch. It is far better than the original at least  | ||
| Rick_a |
This I have to see to believe. My AR-15 build, when it kicks off, aims to be "barely legal." I want it to be a demonstration of what can be done within the confines of current federal, state, and local regs. It will be within 1/16" of requiring ATF registration, and have all the "evil" features. It will be somewhere between pistol, SBR, AOW, and rifle, yet not be classified under any of these. On top of it all I intend for it to be very practical from CQB distances to 400 yards, and be my new primary home D firearm. An F the administration gun, if you will...for freedom. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
'somebody' needs to transpose the list of registered gun owners with registered democrats...... just sayin - Have nice day. |
