| Author | Message | ||
     Gregtonn |
http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2012/12/federal -agency-wants-black-boxes-in-every-car-by-septembe r-2014/ Thoughts? What about motorcycles? G | ||
| Etennuly |
Sheeple are lining up for them from the Progressive Insurance Company. "You can save $30 a month if you just let us monitor every move you make in your car." Might as well get arrested for a DUI, or what ever criminal activity that makes for having a monitor, before you do the crime. Has the stink of Communism if you are asking me. Hope they don't outlaw old cars.....or make a retrofit mandatory. But then, if big brother is going to control every move you make in your what used to be "personal" vehicle, public transportation looks better. Another "Freedom" being shot in the ass. | ||
| Blk_uly |
next they'll put black boxes on condoms if you let them. lol | ||
| Froggy |
Vern the things you are talking about are not the same thing that is being discussed in the article. | ||
| Nukeblue |
have one in my wife's new patriot. believe it's called an 'edr', event data recorder. at least that's what it's called in the owners manual.. says it's for in the event of a crash it stores data from shortly before & during a crash. for investigation purposes. doesn't bother me really. | ||
| Aesquire |
Interesting bit on the legal side. Since the data collected can easily be modified to say anything, Is the data legal in court? I can see the desire to gather such data for purely safety related purposes, and a few other reasons I don't want "the Man" to use against me. The NHTSA has a checkered past for common sense, bringing us such wonders as the 85mph speedometer and other foolishness. But the purpose they serve well at is to investigate accidents and try to prevent them. Mixed bag, best you can hope for. I can see having a policeman use a data recorder to bust you on suspicion of speeding, etc. What will the next gen bring? Roadside data scans? Can I walk up to your car and suck out your driving data? Hack into it and change it? Transmit your speed and vector to central Data? That's a reality if you want driverless & autopilot cars. I'm just childish enough to resent a Stoppie Detector. Mixed emotions here. | ||
| Thumper74 |
If it's mine and the date inside is mine... There won't be any problems when I remove it after an accident, right? | ||
| Fast1075 |
Last year in heavy traffic, I got pulled over for speeding. Only problem was, I was not speeding. Officer Fife shot the idiot that went flying around me. When I protested, telling him I had a way of proving I had not been speeding, he gave me lip. I demanded a supervisor. When the supervisor showed up (A FHP Captain), I explained that I realize how hard it is to target speeders in congested conditions, especially by someone with limited experience. I then asked if he would be willing to see proof that I had, if fact NOT been speeding. He agreed. My GPS stores maximum attained speed. It showed that I had not exceeded the speed limit for that road, which was posted at 70mph. So be aware on most GPS, you have a record of max speed (since/if it was reset to zero). | ||
| Ourdee |
The crash data has been recorded for years. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I am not a lawyer, but I'm guessing it would NOT be OK, particularly if there were potential criminal charges. I assume that would be tampering with evidence, which would be an additional criminal charge. If you disabled it *before* the criminal act, that would probably be OK. No idea what it would mean for civil actions (lawsuits). It would look pretty awful if you went to trial. I can't bring myself to get that upset over this stuff. I personally value honesty and integrity over victory and self gain. So if I was at fault, then so be it and let the chips fall where they may... that's why I buy insurance. From that perspective, I want as much data as possible from all sides. At some point this will burn me (and has before) when I'm arguing fair and somebody else is cheating... but in the long run it seems to be a pretty effective strategy. But I'd do it if it is effective or not. It worked brilliantly when I was hit by an at fault Corolla driver, but not every insurance company may be as stand up as USAA was. Note to vets... I am not a USAA customer, I was hit by a USAA customer, and they treated me very fairly. You should do business with them. I've seriously considered getting a simple bike mounted camera and starting filming every ride in the event of another "event". I do so with the full knowledge that it will be used against me if I am the one that screwed up. It would help motivate me that much more to not screw up, and ride like I am being watched, which is never a bad idea. When I want to get stupid, I do it on the dirt bike. And I film that too, so people can point and laugh.  | ||
| Boltrider |
Put another way, will these new cars run without them? I'm guessing they won't. | ||
| Etennuly |
Speed data was made available on the old style speedometers with that bright orange tip on the needle. They were designed to strike the black gage face in an accident to mark approximate speed in a wreck. Same stuff Froggy.....monitoring you and what you are or were doing with your personal property. The removal of "gray areas" and making everything black and white. A lot of our freedoms lie in the gray areas. One day they will be able to come to your house to fine you for being 5 mph over the limit on your Blast on your way to work.....last Tuesday. | ||
| Macbuell |
How long before we have random checkpoints? Oh wait ... that's already happening. | ||
| Xb9er |
to save $30 a month on insurance i would let my agent ride with me everywhere i go. | ||
| Etennuly |
One day they will be able to come to your house to fine you for being 5 mph over the limit on your Blast on your way to work.....last Tuesday. Oh hell.....they do that now with the street light cameras, and they just mail you the fine. It is all about interrupting Darwinism and everybody getting a trophy. Population control is as necessary as ever. Even if as many as half the non-survivors of these accidents we are being protected from were good people in bad places at a bad time, the other half..... | ||
| Panhead_dan |
""Hope they don't outlaw old cars.....or make a retrofit mandatory."" They already have that all worked out. They changed the fuel available so that it will render all the older vehicles un-usable. 10%-15% alchy will ruin them beyond the point where most people are willing to make repairs. Especially after having done these repairs a couple of times. | ||
| Pwnzor |
So be aware on most GPS, you have a record of max speed (since/if it was reset to zero). Every time I look at that on my GPS it tells me at some point I have exceeded 136mph in my E350 cargo van. I track a whole fleet of trucks all day long with 3 meter accuracy. Every day, I get anomalous readings showing a truck driving through dense forest at 100+ mph. GPS telemetry is sketchy at best. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
it only records the information right before the accident..... and sense we all know when the 'accident' is going to happen - we all know the critcal 30 seconds ?!?!!? nope - it is a full drive recorder accessible at any point . It will be the same as the box on the copier machines that record EVERY image EVER scanned enjoy Komrade; they came for our guns, and we did nothing, they came for our cars - and we did nothing; they came for your paychecks long ago cattle: bought, sold, bartered | ||
| Sifo |
We have GPS on our buses. Yesterday, the office said it showed one of our buses was somewhere in Africa! | ||
| Pikeben08 |
"it only records the information right before the accident..... and sense we all know when the 'accident' is going to happen - we all know the critcal 30 seconds ?!?!!? nope - it is a full drive recorder accessible at any point . It will be the same as the box on the copier machines that record EVERY image EVER scanned " Actually your car does know when an accident happens, it has sensors that trigger your airbag. All the data recorder does is have a 30 (give or take) second buffer that continuously gets written over. Once it detects an airbag deployment it records for another few seconds then stops recording and saves the data. Recording all of the data your vehicle ever generated would be impossible(ok improbable), I work in engine controls I would know. Some data is already recorded by your engine controller, mostly just adapts and stuff. But it also records engine operating conditions if it detects a fault in the system or one of the sensors. | ||
| Geedee |
Your vehicle is registered on a government registry. You carry a government issued Driver Licence, in the name of your birth certificate, a government issued document establishing the person. It is presumed then that you are a government employee conducting government business and in so doing have infringed a government statute which applies to government employees. There is a penalty attached to that infringement. Your vehicle, being on the registry is deemed government property of which you have right of use. The state demands we obtain a licence for everything because the licence is what deems us to be public servants whom the state controls. You have probably never informed the government that your circumstances may be otherwise. They are a tricky bunch :-). Dorothy: (has just arrived in Oz, looking around and awed at the beauty and splendor) "Toto, I've a feeling we're not in Kansas any more." Dorothy: (after a pause) "We must be over the rainbow!" (a bubble appears in the sky and gets closer and closer. It finally lands, then turns into Glinda the Good Witch wearing a spectacular white dress and crown, holding a wand) Dorothy: (to Toto) "Now I... I know we're not in Kansas!" Wizard of Oz | ||
| 6gears |
Gm has been doing this for years....its called OnStar. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
^^^^ yep, and when I was on Team Green ( a joint LEO / WA NG unit tasked with anti drugs, money laundering, smuggling, and trafficking task force) we used it with great ease. All we needed was PC and a warrant would appear. presto. You want to speculate at how easy it was to make 'PC' happen ? | ||
| Azxb9r |
Gm has been doing this for years....its called OnStar. I was just going to mention that. Someone else already mentioned the air bag system also. After an air bag deployment you can access the freeze frame data from the SRS module. Most of the data is SRS related...Whether or not there was someone in the front passenger seat, if the seat belts were being used, etc., but it does also give a speed reading. As far as I know the one from progressive just gives generic OBD2 data (which includes speed, rpm, and throttle application) to determine your driving habits. On Star is the scary one. That supplies every bit of data the car is capable of supplying, including your location. This applies to all On Star capable vehicles, even if you cancelled the On Star when the free trial ran out. | ||
| Ourdee |
Over 8 years ago an automaker won a huge law suit after a crash. All the evidence was in the computer. | ||
| F22raptor |
I was a master tech a t a new-car dealership for 25yrs. I have been able to retrieve. said data since 1998. The police would have us check the odd ones to see if the gas-pedal was present at the time of the collision. people would swear there foot was on the brake..Besides all the other tell-tale sensor inputs was the one that also had "Vehicle speed-limiter exceed" The last reading recorded was 120 some MPH. This is how fast the front tire was sinning after she hit the car in front of her and kept her foot planted on the gas! | ||
| 6gears |
LOL...they would freak if they ran the records on my duramax. It is "slightly" modified and the speed limiter is the aerodynamic wall somewhere north of where the speedo needle rests on the bottom of the instrument cluster. I still have an image in my mind of a bunch of geeks setting in a room with a wall of TVs with blinking VIN numbers making calls to GM to cancel warranties, LOL. I have heard an unconfirmed story from a friend of mine who knew a guy (sounds fishy already) that had some problems with a 6 speed camaro that the dealer could not diagnose..after about 5 trips to the dealer he shifted into 3rd gear running over 80 MPH...BOOM. The dealer pulled the history...VOIDED warranty. | ||
| 7873jake |
OnStar "horror" story: arrived in Palm Springs one November day about 4-5 years ago and a co-worker and I took delivery of our Buick loaner car (previous employer had a marketing deal that provided us with cars at events). As we're leaving the Palm Springs airport, I press the OnStar button for directions to a restaurant. A female voice says "Good evening Mr. Woods, how may I be of assistance?" Turns out it was his loaner car for the Skins Game the week before I got there and OnStar still recognized it as his vehicle. First and last time I've ever been mistaken for Elin's ex-husband. Every day or so we'd push the button just to see if we were still Mr. Woods. | ||
| F22raptor |
6gears,same exact thing happened on a Viper...(Same trans as the Camaro) Kept blowing up rear half-shafts. Chrysler bought it back He was a spoiled 22yr old. We found what was happening from a kid with a 400HP Neon SRT-4..He said the guy would always hit 3rd when trying to hit 5th at 120+..Idiot! | ||
| Two_seasons |
This blog seems to hit the mark... http://www.maciverinstitute.com/2013/01/the-other- night-i-was/ here is part of one paragraph... The "less technical option" is self-reporting mileage rather than trusting Big Brother to keep track of the mileage, and keep it to himself. Minnesota's focus group report was willing to mollify the masses. It suggested, "Consider implementing a MBUF plan with stages to gradually transition from simple to more advanced to minimize public resistance." the old "frog in the pot" story. (Message edited by two_seasons on January 12, 2013) | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
The main reasoning behind this, looks to me, to put in place a way of taxing the mileage of electric vehicles. Previously you were taxed at the pump. | ||
| Two_seasons |
Mr_g: US feds are "mandating all" vehicles for model year 2014 to have these devices! My local observation is this. My city is currently running 80% salary and benefits. Communities all around the USA know exactly (it's called keeping good accounting books) what the long-term cost will be. My community is running out of money for our infrastructure. As anyone around SE Wisconsin can attest to, our roads are crumbling. This is a very real visual. Go to your local community finance manager and ask him/her what the current % of the current budget is alloted for salary and benefits. You'll be surprised. This will be a new "revenue" stream to cover current and future costs of "doing business" as usual in the gub'ment. To be sure, the next 20 years will be painful for the citizens of America. As I said, the old "frog in the pot" plan! | ||
| Cityxslicker |
bring on the Thunderdome Lord Humongous needs has @55 handed to him already | ||
| 6gears |
One of those is at the top of my list when I win the Lotto. I am gonna build the shop, fill the shop with to stuff needed to build one....then build one, LOL. |
