| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
As I just said, details will trickle out, like this one...
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_CONNECTI CUT_SCHOOL_SHOOTING_SUSPECT?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&T EMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-12-14-18-40-31 This is the first I've heard that the "assault rifle" was left in the car. I was under the distinct impression that it had been used. Kind of puts a new perspective on if he could have been stopped with a hand gun IMO. If someone with little or no training can shoot me with a hand gun, I think I can shoot him with a hand gun. I have little doubt that assault rifles will be targeted as a result of this tragedy though, facts be damned. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Let's see 1 or 2 or 5 or 10 teachers each with handguns. I'm pretty sure SOMEONE could have dropped this person before they killed as many as they did. | ||
| Ratbuell |
I'm pretty sure SOMEONE could have dropped this person before they killed as many as they did. And THAT is my point. Would it stop all these attacks immediately? No, probably not. There would be a "culling period" where people learned the hard way that joe and jane public were now allowed to fight back. But...it would MINIMIZE innocent losses. And eventually...it would turn the tide and this crap would cease. | ||
| Bking |
It will be a sad day when we all have to be carrying in order to be safe. | ||
| Sifo |
It will be a sad day when we all have to be carrying in order to be safe. We don't ALL have to carry to be safe. It's enough that the criminal doesn't know if your are carrying or not to provide a deterrence. Right now, in too many places, the criminal KNOWS people are not armed. Do you think it's coincidence that these shootings tend to happen in "no gun" zones? | ||
| Thumper74 |
Exactly, soft targets. When I first heard this report today, they said there were two shooters. I've long feared the day when terrorists start attacking soft targets that are crowded. They could turn a mall or school into a shooting gallery in a hurry. | ||
| Ulyranger |
It is far better to be the wolf than the sheep......or at least in the pack with the wolf...... The deterrence factor of legal CCWs can not be overstated and hard crime stats do not lie. | ||
| Ratbuell |
It will be a sad day when we all have to be carrying in order to be safe. If the "common" criminal is carrying...goddammit, *I* wanna be carrying. If I go down, I want to go down fighting for myself and for those around me. | ||
| Etennuly |
Truly sad. | ||
| Sifo |
Some interesting stuff about Switzerland. http://www.guncite.com/swissgun-kopel.html I knew they had a lot of guns per capita and very little gun crime. I didn't know that the government actually subsidizes a lot of the ammo sales to encourage target practice. I'm amazed the Swiss have survived.  | ||
| Two_seasons |
I'm 58. I graduated high school in 1972. Some of us guys used to bring our .22 rifles to school. We'd go out after school and plink (shooting at empty soda cans). Never had a problem with admin or teachers. Very common to see back then. What's changed? I'd say the worm turned on January 22, 1973. Human life became less "valued" in the USA, from that point on! Right vs wrong is no longer exhibited or talked about routinely in our society. There is a Higher Authority but, we ignore/debase it. At our peril! | ||
| Ratbuell |
"Required". I think that's most of what these massacre people are missing - a sense of purpose. If we REQUIRE military service; if we REQUIRE reserve status; if we REQUIRE a sense of camaraderie and a sense of nationality, maybe these lost souls wouldn't be so lost to begin with. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
We had a shotgun skeet team, there were always dozen or so shot guns in trucks in the lot; and it was not odd to see a rifle rack put to its intended use. Never a school shooting incident. Not one. Graduated 1987 | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
When we are all god, the rest are merely not. Who the hell says I CAN'T exterminate an entire school of children? | ||
| Blake |
If G_d does not exist, then all things are permissible, and none of what we do makes any difference whatsoever. The universe is just destined to turn into a vast frozen wasteland, oblivion the only ultimate consequence. | ||
| Blake |
In that scenario, absent G_d, we are no more valuable than anything else; all is nothing but inconsequential collections of quarks. | ||
| Blake |
>>> Arming teachers is not the solution. There is no fool-proof solution, but obviously prohibiting law abiding adults from arming themselves in direct violation of our constitution is not the answer. That has been proven over and over. Had the teacher been armed, lives would have likely been saved. Had teachers had the freedom to choose to bear arms, then the attack may well have never occurred. Sounds like a pretty damn efficient solution to me. I don't know about other states, but to obtain a CHL in the great state of Texas, you have to demonstrate proficiency scoring hits on a human silhouette in a time-limited scenario. My wife can put eight shots into two silhouettes, two in each chest and head in under 6 seconds. She shoots clay pigeons at 7 yards no problem. Why do liberals always think armed citizens are shaky boobs who cannot aim a handgun in anger? Most ludicrous is the bizarre hand wringing over potential friendly fire. Really? Damnit Dave, come to Kilgore and lets go get you proficient with a handgun. Being able to defend yourself, your family and others against murderous attack is nothing but a VERY good thing. Imagine if this young lady were the teacher: | ||
| Aesquire |
https://twitter.com/rupertmurdoch/status/279759365 328732161 Murdoch, you ignorant slut. Uh, dude. Federal permit required. Not legal in Conn. Period. And has nothing whatsofreaking ever to do with the events at the school. Now, psychotropic drugs, there you've got an issue. Try getting a law about THAT through the Drug lobby. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.daybydaycartoon.com/2012/12/15/ I'll have further commentary after I get some actual facts. | ||
| Ulyranger |
One take on this; http://www.policeone.com/active-shooter/articles/6 065056-Newtown-shooting-Stopping-the-active-shoote r/ One paragraph that seems to fit with the conversation here; "Pay Attention Updated tactics have saved lives. Police officers have gotten better at responding to these incidents. Officers arrive and engage these shooters as soon as possible. The problem is, the public does not understand it can play an important role in preventing these shootings. Administrators at businesses, schools, post offices, hospitals think if the post their facility “No Gun Zone” they have done their part. Problem solved. All they have successfully done in the case of the active shooter is to facilitate a higher body count by designating the facility as a soft target. Instead, citizens need to realize evil always has and always will dwell amongst us. They must understand before there is a manifestation of evil deeds shooters act, talk, write, post, warn, threaten, promise and sometimes even predict in a threatening manner. These evil people that are the active shooters can be stopped long before someone dies by understanding that most shooters pass through a fantasy stage, planning stage, preparation stage, approach stage and implementation stage. When passing through these phases these shooters say troubling things, exhibit trouble behaviors, while the gather troubling equipment. Someone has always been there to see, but few pay attention and fewer still call the police. Schools teachers, doctors, lawyers, therapists, judges, shopkeepers, neighbors, and yes, gun dealers need to pay attention. Many of these incidents can be prevented by the simple act of calling the police when something just doesn’t look, sound, or feel right." | ||
| Ulyranger |
"We had a shotgun skeet team, there were always dozen or so shot guns in trucks in the lot; and it was not odd to see a rifle rack put to its intended use. Never a school shooting incident. Not one. Graduated 1987" We did not have a school sponsered team, but couple of us were on a Junior High Power service rifle team and several were smallbore three position shooters. During the fall hunting season I'd guess every single truck in the school lot had a long gun in a case or rack. I can remember hunting before and after school, directly to/from. Long guns in student vehicles was NOT an odd thing where I grew up. No one I knew even remotely considered using these implements for anything other than their intended purpose.......times sure have changed. Graduated 1986 | ||
| Sifo |
When I turned on the news this morning, of course they were talking about this. They had some guest on talking about the "fact" (I don't know if this is fact yet) that he was using hollow point bullets. He made a comment about how "we law enforcement officers" don't like the public being allowed to have this sort of ammo because it is designed to penetrate a bullet proof vest. While I certainly haven't done testing on this myself, I KNOW that isn't what hollow points are designed for. In fact it's quite the opposite of the design of armor piercing rounds. I guess that I should be shocked, that I am shocked by some jackwagon pushing an anti-gun agenda. It just really pisses me off that he is claiming to be part of law enforcement, telling such blatant lies. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Chicago has some of the most restrictive gun laws in the country. How well do they work? "Realizing that their city would see a record high number of fatalities from gun violence in 2012, Chicago residents have pooled resources to construct the Annual Death Clock." http://newsmakeup.com/chicago-constructs-death-clo ck-to-force-media-discussion-of-gun-violence/ So, do we want the rest of the country to use Chicago as a role model? G | ||
| Hootowl |
"Imagine if this young lady were the teacher" I imagine the body armor wouldn't have been an issue. She'd have just shot him in the head. Several times. As he fell. | ||
| Ratbuell |
Hollow point rounds are for maximum stopping power. No through-shots. Hit, expand, kill. Why worry about armor piercing rounds when you're going after a known soft target? What third grader is gonna be armored?? Sounds like his intent was pretty clear. | ||
| Sifo |
I had no idea this was even going on... http://news.yahoo.com/michigan-governor-reviewing- gun-bill-stance-unclear-233606798.html
Personally, I just don't see how having an armed teacher, or other staff member would make a situation like this any worse. I do however see where having people armed may change the shooters mind about even showing up. A school that isn't attacked by a douche bag isn't going to be news though. It couldn't be more clear from examples like Switzerland that guns are not the problem. They may or may not be the solution, but they are not the problem. | ||
| Glitch |
Maybe, just maybe, this is more of an over medicated child issue than a weapons issue. How much ya wanna bet this kid had been, was, or is, on anti-psychotic medication like James Holmes, the kid that shot up the movie theater. We need to look at the cause, not the weapon used. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Interesting- the dad of one of my wife's friends posted to FB this morning. He used to work in a mental health institution (60's/70's) and he said he believes the root cause of incidents like this is that so many people who would have been locked up 40-50 years ago are out walking around on the street. Back then, the people could be kept safe and society was safe. Rights advocates came along and pressed for legislation to let these people out, claiming it was unfair and wrong to lock people up because of mental problems and that modern medications could treat most of these conditions. Politicians were glad to back such legislation because they relieved the cost for the states to keep these people locked up. Of course, these medications have to be TAKEN in order for them to work. How many cases have we read about where somebody like this stopped taking their meds? I think the guy is on to something. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
so what happens when a cop shoot a teacher because they are not sure WHO the perp is? | ||
| Glitch |
http://www.fbi.gov/stats-services/publications/sch ool-shooter Interesting read this. so what happens when a cop shoot a teacher because they are not sure WHO the perp is? Probably the same thing that happened the last time that happened. |
