| Author | Message | ||
     Boogiman1981 |
http://tv.msnbc.com/2012/11/28/black-teens-shootin g-revives-stand-your-ground-debate/ Anybody else watching this? | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
ah damnit. once again, it goes racist. "We can’t wait until another Black child is killed" How about just CHILD,no need to bring race into this. I will say, I forgot about Trayvon. And Im sure a lot of people have, even those who 'protested' and had shirts and stuff that said "we are trayvon"......idiots. I feel for all parties involved - the arrested's family and friends, the victims friends and family. I truly hope that there was a shotgun, and this teen didnt die for no reason. I started reading the comments and was shocked and saddened at how many people are blaming this on a racist action. I will say, he had to have his gun at the ready when the shotgun was pulled on him. | ||
| Cowboy |
Playing loud BOOM BOOM music is reason enough, | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
yeah i can't stand it that the race card gets thrown around so willy nilly. tragic for sure. the part that irked me is the factoid in the reports about the accused being a gun collector... wtf does that have to do with this isolated incident? | ||
| Pwnzor |
Maybe Hussein Obama will go back on the "Pimp with a limp" show to talk about this. | ||
| Psykick_machanik |
That article couldnt have been any more biased. They make sure they repeat "unarmed teens" enough and as a side bar that the other man saw a shot gun. Waving the race flag is sickening to me. who cares about their skin, isnt that what we learned in sunday school? This is tragic from every angle | ||
| Sifo |
I hadn't seen this one. It isn't even news in Chicago when blacks kill blacks. On average it happens every day, plus some. I see Al Sharpton is in on this one though. Race card being played big time. I have no idea what the real facts are here, but there are certainly very different stories from the two sides. I don't even see where the "stand your ground" law plays into this beyond being a self defense catch all law. Even without it, you can claim self defense from someone pulling a shotgun on you. The inability to produce said shotgun is problematic even under a stand your ground law. It does sound like they had a reasonable chance to ditch the shotgun. That can produce reasonable doubt in a murder trial, stand your ground law or not. It's a tragedy for all involved. It takes a POS to take this tragedy and use it for political purposes. Take you pick from this weeks carnage in Chicago that you will NEVER hear about. You need to cherry pick just the right one that has all the right buttons to push. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"the part that irked me is the factoid in the reports about the accused being a gun collector... wtf does that have to do with this isolated incident?" Boogi, this is a valid point (yours, not theirs) and it reminds me of something that I read yesterday (ok, about to go off topic, but it relates) -so with the big lottery last night, there were many news reports about the powerball, past winners and so on. One thing I read was how some peoples lives have turned sour due to all of the money. One example it gave was some guy from 2002 that won a few hundred million it stated something like, "his car was broken into and a briefcase with $45000 cash was stolen, his home has been broken into, and HE WAS CAUGHT TWICE DRIVING IMPAIRED" (I put the caps in to poit out the odd part. Money doesnt make people DUI, poor people do it all of the time. And it made NO SENSE to put it into the article. but thats media, put random things in to try to get their point across (but only the idiots would buy into it) | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
picked that article because it was the first one on my google search results this morning. read several others and all were about the same. really odd twist is the shooter was up here in jax because his son got married that day. and no "BOOM BOOM music' is not a valid reason to open fire on someone. yeah as for the details without cameras on site unfortunately it's pretty much all he said she said...and it was just the shooter and his gf who was inside the store so i doubt the shooter is going to have any witnesses for him. we've had a very violent couple of weeks here in jacksonville. most of which no one outside of jax will hear about. i just really really hope that JSO doesn't screw this up. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
"...put random things in to try to get their point across..." Make no mistake that factoid was not and is not there randomly. it is a part of mass medias agenda to help disarm law abiding US citizens | ||
| Thumper74 |
Did the SUV leave the scene, or did they stay? If they left... they could have ditched the shotgun. Some of the comments are crazy... Someone suggesting that black men start killing white teenagers to get the law repealed. The facts be damned. | ||
| Thumper74 |
I'm sure there would be some trace of gun oil on his hands... if he had. Also, what about the others in the car? If he were shooting them because he was racist, I'm sure someone else would have been hit. I'm not defending this guy, I am just presenting different view points. | ||
| Sifo |
Did the SUV leave the scene, or did they stay? If they left... they could have ditched the shotgun. That seems a bit foggy in the article. If I am reading it right, the shooter's lawyer is suggesting this is the case. Of course a lawyer can suggest anything that will help raise doubt. I'm sure the police report will detail where the shooting happened and if that is where the vehicle was moved from there. One or both sides are not providing an accurate account of the incident. I think a lot will hinge on how well the stories from the other three in the SUV correlate with each other as well as physical evidence. In the end a jury will likely have to go with their gut feeling on this. Of course more facts are likely to be known in the near future. Will the media report new facts? | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
"please turn down your music" I don't think so. I think it was more like "Your music sucks bad" In other words, he provoked them. This case is very different from the Trayvon case. This guy was trolling. Trayvon attacked from behind and kicked Zimmerman's ass before a single shot stopped the beating. | ||
| Rick_a |
I think that self-respect and the respect of others has broke down in the last couple decades, in adults and teens alike. If someone verbally threatened to kill me I'd take it very seriously, though deadly force should always be a last resort. That said it's already a fine circus. On the music subject, on Thanksgiving I had gansta rap blaring from across the street and soul music blasting next door. I'll admit a lot of rap has a good back beat, but damn is it negative. I'd lose it listening to that all day. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Some of the worst altercations I have seen in recent years has been over asshats that think it is their god given right to spew obnoxious noise in public at volume levels that penetrate buildings a block away, and FORCE YOU to listen to the crap. Respect for others is a rare thing with some of the people today. Never mind that in Florida it is against the law to have the sound system cranked up loud in a vehicle. I don't know how many times I have wished I had an EMP machine of some sort to take out the amps or speakers when I am stuck in traffic forced to endure that crap. Guy should have called 911 and reported them and let the law deal with them. That's what I do. | ||
| Thumper74 |
I haven't had any altercations with people blaring loud music, but they wake me up all the time... Same with Harleys though. | ||
| Blake |
>>> I think it was more like "Your music sucks bad" >>> In other words, he provoked them. >>> This case is very different from the Trayvon case. This guy was trolling. Says you, and based on little to no substantiated evidence. It's beyond the pale how some so casually accuse another of murder. No amount of verbal confrontation justifies threatening with a weapon, period. If someone can be provoked into threatening with a deadly weapon by mere speech, they need to be locked up. (Message edited by Blake on November 30, 2012) | ||
| Xdigitalx |
I think that self-respect and the respect of others has broke down in the last couple decades, in adults and teens alike. this is so true. I think it also has to do with people learning at an early age how easy it is to dish it out but never earning how to take it. Too many teachers!! | ||
| 86129squids |
"In order to teach, one must offend. In order to learn, one must be offended," I watch and observe a buddys 16YO, as they spend time with me, I try to understand, and to be understood. Good kid, needs to know what "smart" is without the phone, as do many folks my age...he's got a good dad, I went to school and wanted to learn sociology and psychology.,. Interesting times. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
No amount of verbal confrontation justifies threatening with a weapon, period. If someone can be provoked into threatening with a deadly weapon by mere speech, they need to be locked up. " who are you speaking of exactly? I hope you arent referencing the dudes in the SUV. Still so many unknowns here, I hope you arent one of the many jumping to conclusions on who did what I keep hearing so many things racially charged. Again, why must so many go right to that? | ||
| Pwnzor |
No amount of verbal confrontation justifies threatening with a weapon, period. "I'm going to kill you". "You motherf**ker I'm going to kill you." "Give me your wallet" "Get out of the car motherf**ker" These are just a few verbal statements that would cause me to draw my weapon. Are these "mere speech"? Supposing of course that I cannot see any weapons... am I supposed to WAIT until one is drawn on me? Not saying I would just open fire, but my weapon would be out. | ||
| Sifo |
Speaking of Zimmerman, there's a new picture of him that has just been made available to the defense team.  I'm quite convinced that Zimmerman was acting in self defense. This new case, I'm not so sure about, in fact tend to think that murder charges might be the right thing. I did read that there were other witnesses in this case though. If ANY of them can back up the shotgun thing, that changes things. I'm guessing there's a lot of evidence available in this case that we don't know about. The one think (aside from the race card) that I see in common in these two cases, is that neither one seems to have anything to do with the stand your ground law. | ||
| Blake |
Good points Matt. To clarify, by "verbal confrontation" I meant mere argument or insult, not any kind of credible threat of violence. And even then, it must take more than words to justify brandishing a firearm. Be ready, sure, but brandish? No so much. |
