| Author | Message | ||
     Darth_villar |
Does anyone here do it? I'm thinking about starting myself, and have been doing a lot of research on the "best" equipment. It will be mainly for precision rifle rounds, so just a single stage press. From what I have read, the Forster press and dies are considered very good quality. And I'm leaning towards a few RCBS components. Then using Hornady bullets with Lapua brass. Any comments or information would be appreciated. Phil | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
infinite variables. dad used to have a rockchucker and we are looking to get back into reloading as well. subscribed | ||
| Nukeblue |
hornady or sierra both great choices, along with the loopy brass. that's the goods there. far as press goes rockchucker is the single stage most are judged by. i use the lee stuff. the press is just as good and only $100 http://www.midwayusa.com/product/317831/lee-classi c-cast-single-stage-press?cm_vc=subv1 | ||
| Nukeblue |
i get most of my equipt from midwayusa & most components from here... http://powdervalleyinc.com/ | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'll be the "counterpoint" here to what will no doubt follow with many $1000 to $2000 options... I have a lee single stage. Don't get me wrong, some of the lee single stage presses *are* junk. I ripped the head off of one of them (C shaped instead of O shaped). And I've had to replace a broken handle part on that replacement press. But for the price, it's been quite nice. The $100 Lee starter kit gives you a press, powder measure, scale, and a primer tool. Then get the carbide dies for your caliber for another $30 to $45. Figure another $50 for miscellaney (case trimmer, etc). So for $200, you are pretty much ready to go. This press has served me well for lots of rounds of many calibers. It's a good starting point. That being said, when I am reloading used military brass for .30/06, I do think it is too much for the press. Though given the headache of swaging the primer pockets (crimped on the military rounds) that's probably just another symptom of the "military brass is a PITA to reload" problem more than a shortcoming of the press. When I reload that, I borrow the neighbors rockchucker (which is about indestructible). But for normal rifle brass (6.5x55, .308) even the cheap O shaped Lee press works fine. For precision, the lee stuff does take a bit more attention perhaps. But if you are careful it will hold thousands of an inch specs for 50 rounds. Likewise with the powder measure, its all plasticy and cheap feeling, and takes a bit of fiddling to set up, but after that it will throw round after round of charges more accurately than you can measure. So if you can find a good deal on a rockchucker, or if you know you will be loading a small number of big military brass rounds, then get that. But if you are putting a toe in the water, I'd say start with the Lee kit. If you want to start with a serious setup, get a Dillon 550B. I think the Rockchucker otherwise occupies an awkward middle ground... for the price I'd just pay more and get the Dillon 550B progressive for under $500. http://www.dillonprecision.com/#/content/p/9/pid/2 3594/catid/1/RL_550B A tumbler is really nice as well, and makes the rest of the loading go much better (and look much prettier). But you can just wash it and not polish it and that will work fine as well. Really, that Dillon 550B setup is the one to get... but the Lee is a nice "try it" setup, and you can probably sell it all day long when you want to upgrade. Speaking of which, somebody make me an offer I cant refuse so I can upgrade to that dillon 550B!  (Message edited by reepicheep on November 28, 2012) | ||
| Ulyranger |
Been reloading for many years, learned from the ole man during my competitive shooting years. Guess he got tired of filling my ammo boxes and thought i should pull my own weight..... I'd recommend going simple, quality, but simple first. A single stage press is the way to go IMHO. I primarily use an old RCBS that works fine, plus i have Dad's as a backup now, or if I feel like going "progressive". Forster makes a kick azz case trimmer too and you do not want to skimp here. I'd also recommend going with a hand primer tool too. You can do it with the press, but you can do production while maintaining attention to detail. I do each stage separately (cleaning, tumbling, resizing, trimming, reaming, etc...) and measure often. I may take more time than others, but if you are manufacturing "precision" rifle rounds than time is irrelevant, also IMO. Start with a conservative round, buy a couple different books, shoot it, measure your results and go from there. Talk to veteran shooters for tips on your particular platform, what works, what doesn't.... There is satisfaction in producing your own ammo and when you get good at it with your particular rifle it will out shoot 99% of the factory ammo out there. Good luck and welcome to a new obsession. 24 hour campfire is a good website with host old time shooters with excellent knowledge. | ||
| Nukeblue |
reep, you must have had the cheaper $60 lee single stage. the one in the link is WAY better. i had the same prob as you, sized about 2k 7.62x51, it was too much for my cheaper single stage & upgraded. now it's no problem. of course it was once fired machine gun brass. that stuff was big! | ||
| Ulyranger |
Good advice on the military brass Reep. My brass inventory (.308, 30-06 mostly) is probably 95% military LC. You will have to take a bit more care. Make sure it's Boxer primed and by all means check case volume especially if shoot a semi-auto gas gun......DAMHIK... Military brass while excellent, tends to be thicker and can very in internal case volume....leading to pressure changes for the same loading. My learning curve here involved LC 7.62 Match 1985. Excellent quality, last longer but the volume was enough lower to cause concern in my M14s...... | ||
| Reepicheep |
Now you all have me thinking I should ask for a 550B for christmas. :0 Stop it! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Montana Gold makes some great cheap pistol bullets. If you order a bunch at a time you will (a) get an incredible deal and (b) make your postman *hate* you. DAMHIK. (They refused to deliver it, I had to pick them up at the post office). | ||
| Bob_thompson |
I agree with most of whats been said here so far, and will only add, I have been reloading for at least 40 different rounds both military and civilian calibers better then 30 years with mostly Hornady equipment and it has served me well. My best advice for a beginner is get several reloading manuals and READ their "how to" sections very carefully and continue to reference them for all your loading. Various powder companies also have reloading web sites on the net, such as: http://www.imrpowder.com/ I also like Midway, Gun parts corp. and Brownells for any supplies. And this is the best gun forum on the net: http://thefiringline.com/forums/index.php If possible have a dedicated place in your home to do your reloading and try and do it alone without distractions. My little area below: AND STAY SAFE always!   | ||
| Tootal |
I have a Lyman Orange Crush and a bunch of RCBS equipment. It all works great but is not the fastest way to go. I will eventually bite the bullet and get a Dillon 550 B. Great unit and I'm looking forward to such an easy switch to different calibers. So my advise is to spend the money on the Dillon now and don't waste you money on something your going to change in the future anyway! | ||
| Darth_villar |
Nukeblue, thanks for that link on powder and bullets! I appreciate all the info gentlemen. The only reservation I have about the Dillon, is that I mainly want to reload small numbers of precision rifle rounds. It just doesn't seem to me that you can maintain the same level of precision using a turret reloader. Again, that is just what is seems like to me. Keep it coming! | ||
| Pdxs3t |
I use an RCBS Rockchucker....Its reloaded several thousand rounds with no complaints. Just recently pulled it from storage to start reloading again. At one point I was reloading 9mm, 40S&W, .357 Mag, .223/5.56mm, 7.62x39mm and 22-250. Right now, with the new AR dies from RCBS, .223/5.56mm and 7.62x39 mm. You'll want a brass tumbler (they are actually vibrators). Working with good clean brass helps with the experience and also allows you to inspect the brass more closely for flaws. If your doing military brass, you'll want some sort of swagger tool. Doing it by hand really suck's. Slow process and hard on the fingers. Bob mentioned Midway USA for supplies, I 2nd that. I've done a bunch of ordering from Midway, a good place to do business. I'm new to powder throws. Use to do everything by hand. I broke down and bought a Lee Perfect Powder Measure. It wasn't that much and it works. I ran a can of powder through, before I even used it to reload with. Wanted to test how accurate it really was. Once dialed in by volume. Dang thing nailed it everytime. Not too bad for $24.00. One of the most important things to stress...When you work up a load, start off easy and work your way up. Each firearm is different and handle rounds differently. I use to have a Ruger GP 100, 6" Bull Barrel. Worked up some great loads for it. My mom (85 years old) has a GP 100 with a 4" Bull Barrel. I gave her some rounds to shoot, not thinking...Well, if I could of been grounded at the time, I think I would have been. They were too hot for the 4" barrel. She said a flame shot out the end about 6', hurt (as in kick) scared the hell out of her and her instructor!  | ||
| Jayvee |
Dillons are great, but sort of geared to higher volume production of the same round. For precision, or for frequently changing things, a single stage or turret press will better serve and much cheaper. Except for avoiding the cheaper Lee presses, the brand doesn't matter. I have a turret press (Lyman T-Mag) I do both; lots of experimenting, but then might make a couple hundred of them. The Turrets change out, so I have about 6 or 7 calibers set up at any given time. I suggest put the money in the best dies you can afford, either Hornady, Dillon, or Redding, the press doesn't make nearly as much difference. | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Good ideas Pdxs3t, "Right now, with the new AR dies from RCBS, .223/5.56mm and 7.62x39 mm.".......and think about small base dies for any auto loader. They insure complete chambering when rapid firing. "I'm new to powder throws. Use to do everything by hand. I broke down and bought a Lee Perfect Powder Measure. It wasn't that much and it works"........and think about a trickler for extra precision, down to 1/10 grain. I drop to within 1/2 g. and then trickle the last few tenths. Also weigh bullets and measure brass precisely, especially neck thickness and trim OA length to .001 tolerance. Do a chamber leade check with each individual bullet (many have different olgives) and load bullets to .020 from contacting rifling. All things for "precision", and yes they all do count. Search the 1000 yard competition websites for info. "One of the most important things to stress...When you work up a load, start off easy and work your way up. Each firearm is different and handle rounds differently"......totally agree, no comment except watch brass carefully for signs of excessive pressure, try and determine what each guns chamber dimensions are by measuring brass, unloaded and after firing to help do this and a cronograph helps to determine consistency. They can be had for as little as $100.00. Get a good dial caliper and use it. "She said a flame shot out the end about 6',hurt (as in kick) scared the hell out of her and her instructor!".......thats the beauty of handloading, customizing loads to your own suitability; but be careful with reduced loads, you can get detonation which can have very harmful effects. One of my most accurate loads in a Tikka 7mm Mag. was a light 120g. bullet at just 2400fps, my urban sniper load, it shot into cloverleafs at 100yds. A good site for reduced loads: http://www.chuckhawks.com/reduced_recoil_reloads.h tm Again, have fun and STAY SAFE, its a great passtime during times when we're not riding and we can shoot almost anytime. | ||
| P_squared |
Best advice I can give a new reloader is to start cheap on caliber(s) you don't care about benchrest accuracy on. E.g. pistol & bulk rifle reloading. IMO, you need to learn the BASICS before you dive head first into precision reloading. And in your own words, you want to "reload precision rifle rounds" tells me exactly that, PRECISION. That means much time spent on brass prep (weighing, uniforming primer pockets, neck turning, etc.), verifying powder charges (weighing each charge), primer selection, bullet selection (weighing each bullet), playing with COAL, crimps (possibly), and different powders/primers. Having said all of that, I broke down & bought a Forster Co-Ax press for my single stage reloading, and pieced together all of the other components I need/want for what I do (Case prep tools, digital scale, powder trickler, etc.). You can't go wrong with a good single stage for precision (Rockchucker, Redding, Forster, etc.) Make sure you budget for a Chronograph if you're serious about precision. You'll need it. All the above is my opinion & YMMV. | ||
| Buffalobolt |
+1 on what has been posted so far... I have both, a heavy old single stage (not even sure of the make), and a Dillon 550. For small batches of ammo, and/or load testing the single stage gets the nod. As most have said, any name brand will likely do what you want to do. If your really wanting to get into "precision" loading, most of what will need to be done has little to do with a press. When you start doing inside and outside neck turning, you're going to want a good case trimmer (Forster, or better). Along with other "case prep" items like a primer pocket tool, to make the pockets uniform. All that being said, I've yet to be able to outshoot the ammo that comes out of my Dillon at 3-400 per hour. As said above, it all depends how far you want to go... | ||
| Sifo |
I've been doing hand gun loads for a while now. I started with a Lee turret press. It will never do the production of a progressive, but it can do single function round after round like a single stage press. That gives pretty good flexibility. I'll probably start learning to do necked down rifle rounds in the near future. I would tend to want that to be more of a precision thing rather than just spinning them through an automated process though. I see a single stage being fine, unless you are just blasting away lots of ammo. I have some friends who are big fans of Dillon presses. "Life time warranty..., no worries ever..., even if your house burns down..., blah, blah, blah". Nothing against them but the price. I have broken the primer holder (fell on the concrete floor). A simple phone call and a credit card took care of that no problem at all for $12.00. I can replace a top of the line Lee a couple of times for less than the Dillon lifetime warranty. Another interesting thread for me. Lots to learn! It was nice learning some of the basics on cheap hand gun bullets. | ||
| Ulyranger |
Why am I not surprised that there is a wealth of reloading knowledge here?? The varied backgrounds/skills here on BadWeb is amazing....I guess we all like to tinker... Seeing Bob T's pictures reminds me that I have to get my reloading room set up again. Used to have an awesome, dedicated spot in my previous house but since moving five years ago I've been storing my stuff. Then pulling out only the essentials to crank out some rounds when needed........not acceptable....got the itch again. Now that I've kicked one out the nest to college I'm taking over that bedroom. Welcome home honey and don't touch the stuff in your old bedroom.   | ||
| Sifo |
I've got and old kitchen floor cabinet with it's counter top that I mounted my press on. Has two built in drawers, and two doors that open with shelves. Pull out exactly what you need to build a certain round and nothing else. It all gets put back after the building session. NEVER have two kinds of powder out at one time. You really don't want to return your excess powder to the wrong container. Perhaps slightly off the topic of this thread, but for unjacketed bullets, I've come to like pennbullets.com. Small operation with passion for what they do. They can be a bit slow on order fulfillment though. They tend to pack "extras" into the package sometimes though. Good folks. Midway is good to do business with too. | ||
| Tootal |
I guess I read past the part about a precision rifle round. As others have stated, brass prep is very important for a precision round. I only weigh every powder charge when I'm loading my 7mm-08. It's a silhouette rifle so I take my time. I trim the cases after inspection and sizing. I use only one manufacturer of brass. Match primers and match bullets. When seating the bullet I left it stick out too far and put it in the rifle, with no powder or primer, and seated the bullet by closing the bolt. While the bolt was closed I put a 1/4" wooden dowel rod down the barrel and made a mark at the end of the barrel with a knife. I removed the shell and set my seating die approximately 1/32" deeper. I seated the bullet with the press and placed it in the rifle and checked the depth with the dowel and made another mark. 1/32" difference. The first time I shot this rifle, after sighting it in, I shot a 5 shot group of 1-1/16" at 200 yards. I still have that paper plate hanging in my reloading room! Sometimes you just get lucky the first time. As also mentioned, the Rock Crusher from RCBS is identical to the Lyman Orange Crush and several other units. Finding a strong enough table to mount them to is the hard part! | ||
| Just_ziptab |
I started with a dinosaur Lee 12 gauge hand set die that you hammered the primer out and palmed the die to make the crimp. Same set up for 30 carbine.Graduated to a bench press in the 70's and more and more tools. Combat shooting with a 45 ACP called for lots of ammo and I got an inline progressive press...FAST...except the aspect of casting bullets for that load.! The more you learn,the more tools you need to make those perfect rounds...12,000 to 15,000 rounds a year when I was heavy into competition.ANAL! 17 Remington to 444 Marlin. 44 Automag was the most bothersome with forming the brass. 50 BMG?............you haven't reloaded till you've loaded match/moly coated 1,00 yard bench rest ammo for a 50. The results of a lot of work and notes is most satisfying.  This was a non entry exhibition 5 shot group I fire at the end of a small bore bench rest match.All the wildcat shooters were on their spotting scopes,watching....... and reeling from the concussion of the muzzle brake. At shot # 5,they packed up their stuff and went home......none of them said a word to me....musta been pissed? | ||
| Tootal |
 It's a beautiful thing!! | ||
| Bob_thompson |
One of my challenges a while back was hand loading 45-70 black powder cartridge duplex loads for a nice Sharps target model rifle. With a soule (vernier) rear tang sight and set triggers I was able to hit a 24"x35" steel plate 7 out of 10 times at a measured 500 yards. Much fun and not as easy as you would think. Trajectory like a rainbow and 1/2 second flight time. Big gong at the other end. WOW! With only your eye to see the target through a very small aperture it looked like a speck out there. If you think of it black powder was the first form of hand loading there was and those shooters, way back then, were doing some pretty miraculous things with really inferior rifles. I do enjoy ALL forms of shooting. | ||
| Darth_villar |
I sincerely appreciate all the excellent info here. Once I finally get all my stuff and get it setup I will have to post some pictures, along with the results That is an extremely impressive group ziptab! | ||
| Slaughter |
Darth, IF you are target shooting or hunting you are FAR better off loading your own. Lapua makes rifle and pistol. YOu didn't say what caliber and whether semiauto or bolt or lever or? IMR powders GENERALLY do better in gas operated actions. Lever and bolt won't care. Hunting or target? Caliber? Expected ranges and game? I use RCBS, good scale, case trimmer, lapidary tumbler... and tumbler is not to make the brass pretty, it stress-relieves it. For pistol shooting and M1Carbine, I use carbide dies and Dillon RL450. If you're looking at Military rifle brass, you need military decapping tool and deburring for the first reload. All from Slaughter's random thought generator. Reloading is a GREAT hobby and can get as highly technical as you let it! | ||
| Darth_villar |
Right, sorry I didn't clarify my intended uses! I plan on getting a longer range bolt gun in the future, probably 300 Mag or 338 Lapua. But right now I'm getting the components for a 24" Kel-Tec RFB (.308, semi auto). It is basically going to be my SHTF weapon, and will fill multiple tasks. It will probably do some range work, and some hunting. Expected ranges up to 800m, but generally 600m and below in normal use. I'm stuck on the scope right now, leaning towards the Acog TA55A (5.5 power), over a conventional scope (Leupold MK 4). Currently planning on using Hornady 168gr Amax with Varget powder, Lapua brass, and CCI BR2 primers. I read through the Lyman reloading manual, some very good info there as well. |
