| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
They wanted 30% pay concessions and to stop funding the workers pensions after giving their CEO a 300% pay increase....I would find that hard to swallow, union or not. I found it hard to swallow. Being a fact that is. Fact is that this is a lie being told by the union.  Never saw that coming! Truth is that until they come out of bankruptcy, his yearly salary is $1.00 per year. Same goes for other executives. Now that they are going out of business, any amount you claim his salary to be is moot. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/11/16/gregory-r ayburn-raise_n_2147043.html This isn't very surprising to me at all. I'm three months into a job that required me to join the union. I've quickly learned that it is almost impossible to get straight answers on what goes on there. The biggest reason that I can find is that one of the union reps is constantly telling lies about what is being done, not only by the company, but also by the union. It create chaos in communications. Most of the worker bees don't have enough understanding of how a business works to know when they are being snowed though. There are people who actually are willing to believe that the monthly safety bonus we get, for not crashing the vehicles, comes from the union. Our union rep keeps making that claim. Two problems with that claim though. First, it's not in the union contract. Second, the bonus is about double the union dues. The math on that just doesn't work out. Of course when someone didn't get their bonus, they wound up following dead ends in the union trying to get it resolved. Finally just talked to management, and got it taken care of. Typical union BS from what I've been able to tell. Seeing it from the inside sucks! | ||
| Boltrider |
My palate isn't what it was when I was five, so I can't say I'll miss their products. | ||
| Sifo |
Boltrider, looking at your DOB on your profile page, I don't think you are likely to have ever had a REAL Twinkie. They changed them from what they once were. Still I agree with your statement, and to honest I won't miss them. They aren't a part of my diet. The jobs lost do concern me though. This sets off a ripple effect far beyond the employees being directly let go. | ||
| 6gears |
Sifo... I was not in the union meeting with the company. I am just like everybody else who reads the news, internet, etc. As far as your union rep....You can get him out and put somebody else in. My union rep at a previous job would bring in the transcripts from the meeting if we wanted to read them...nothing to hide. I personally don't care if Hostess goes under or not. The loss of jobs is concerning, but I did not buy the products either so I guess it is my fault too. Let the union bashing continue.... | ||
| Cityxslicker |
The farm I grew up on, we used to feed the hogs several day old hostess cakes and wonder bread because it was past the expiration date. The little porkers loved the raspberry zingers the best. it was the best bacon I have ever had. I am sure the guys were near diabetic, but the bacon was beyond compare. ps It looks like Wally World maybe facing its own rendition of upcoming Union Cupcake Activity. | ||
| Sifo |
6gears, here's the thing. The story you gave just sounded suspicious. So I looked it up. The ONLY sources carrying that story are what I will just call the usual suspects. That was flag number two for me. I did notice that there was one from the HuffPost (the best of the lot of the usual suspects BTW) labeled "UPDATE". That was where I found out that it was all started by the union lying about all of this. Media Matters was carrying the lies. They claim to be media watch dogs! In reality, they are a joke. The sad thing is that you read this, never questioning if it was believable, never questioning the source, and passed it along as fact without providing your source. You really should start questioning what you think you know. Get the wool out of you eyes so to speak. Unions have a habit of lying. There are those in the media who are more than happy to pass those lies along. That is the reality of the world in which we live. | ||
| 6gears |
10-4 Sifo.....I was tempted to not even chime in on all of this, but I recently lost a great job of 13+ years after a merger with a greedy company who took all the extra profits and did not update anything in anticipation of the future. Our union negotiations went pretty well because I feel like the company did not care about us in the future because we had none with them. I am done with this and will pull the wool out of my eyes and stick my helmet on and do some riding today, after all, that is what I come here for.... | ||
| Sifo |
Here's the thing 6gears. When you post up dubious info, and choose to not provide any source for it (I'm guessing you may have been suspect of the source and info from the start), it's you that will suffer damage to your credibility when proven wrong. Perhaps that doesn't matter to you, I really don't know. It's pretty easy to double check info like this these days. When a story isn't even touched by even semi-credible sources it's probably not true. Yep, riding gives street cred.  I took the wife's Street Triple out for a spin after picking it up from the shop. There were a couple of minor recalls that were outstanding. The told me the shifting would be improved by one of them. It already is one of the best shifting bikes I've ridden. Darned if it doesn't seem slightly better though. Great service from that dealer too! (Message edited by SIFO on November 17, 2012) | ||
| 6gears |
I am sorry... I forgot how much you hated the unions and I did not double check my info. I shall never post anything about politics or unions again. You win. I will stick to my vast knowledge of motorcycles and other mechanical devices especially on a motorcycle forum. | ||
| Sifo |
BTW, I would point out that you didn't lose a job after 13+ years because of a greedy company. You had a job for 13+ years because of a greedy company. | ||
| Aesquire |
I don't hate unions. I'm in one. I could not be in the union and "I'm sure they would represent me just as they would a non-scab" Ok, not so much. But why should they? Now, I disagree with the union's political stance, ( I bet you can guess... hint, they supported Hillary in '08 ) and have repeatedly told the local union folks how foolish their donation program is. I get a bit risque, using metaphors like, "If we always support x but never y, then y knows we won't and doesn't care to help us, ( why should they? ) and X thinks we are in the stable and sees no need to woo us." "If we donate to both sides, and I'm not asking for parity, then both sides will have to court our favor, instead of taking us for granted..... you know the bit about why buy the cow?...." It doesn't help, but makes me feel better.... Politics aside, the Unions does do it's best in a bad situation. ( it maybe helps that if we strike, they shoot us. Thats' the historical fact ) We could do a whole rant on how a union shop creates a hostile workplace that the union protects the workers from.... or vice versa... Chicken or the egg? ( egg, IMO, and I have an argument for that opinion ) BTW, Kodak is completely non union and the Company has been looted, even without a takeover. If 6gears's old company was taken over by the kind of folks we were TOLD ( by Barry's folk... and the truth aint there, proven time and again ) the Bane Capital was, then that sucks, and it does happen. Pirates exist. Company looters exist. Unions that exploit their people exist. It's not black and white. There are some damn murky greys. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
Aesquire, thank you for your balanced opinion. | ||
| 6gears |
I will not go into the history behind my last job, but the company that bought us just wanted PART of the company, not all of it. They kept huge amounts of our profits while waiting on the company to fall apart. They shut down my plant and kept the distribution side (what they wanted all along) and went on their merry way. But I try to stay positive about it and not bitch and moan about EVERYTHING. | ||
| Pwnzor |
If you buy a company... Is it not yours to do with as you please? Did you not evaluate all possibilities when you accepted the job 13 years ago? Do you not realize there is risk associated with everything? In my business, companies operate on razor thin margins and can be consolidated at the drop of a hat. The skills I have developed over the last 20 years are adaptable to any other similar type of business. There are people at my company making more than me that are less skilled and less efficient. I basically carry them throughout the day. When the company is finally reorganized, they will go and I will stay. I don't care about what they make because they don't pay my bills. Soon enough, they won't be able to pay their own. If our company dies, I will work for one of our vendors or one of our competitors. They all know exactly who I am. Survival of the fittest. Risk and reward. | ||
| 6gears |
You guys crack me up. I had a big long response all typed up but just deleted it all. You people are not worth wasting my time arguing with. Later. | ||
| Aesquire |
Did you not evaluate all possibilities when you accepted the job 13 years ago? That's ridiculous. 13 years ago Hillary Clinton was the next choice for Prez. 13 years ago No one anticipated that a neo-marxist guy who claimed to be from Kenya ( Obama's publishers bio, that was un corrected for 16 years ) would come up and accuse Hillary and her husband of racism to win the Job, ( a guy "who should be bringing us coffee" per Bill Clinton to Ted Kennedy ) using classic Alinsky hate techniques. When 6gears joined his company, no one there had secret plans to sell the company to another that would loot it for the good parts and dump the rest in the gutter. 13 years ago no one at the company that looted 6gears's had any plans to do so. No one 13 years ago thought the President of the US would support revolutions in US allied nations leading to the Muslim Brotherhood, a proven and long time terrorist group being in charge, imposing Sharia law, police assaulting women in the streets of Cairo ( the most modern nation in N. Africa ) and war.... ( in process..... More to come... ) Ok, a few of us were afraid George W would do so accidentally.... No one thought it would happen on purpose. 13 years ago, you could have lunch on top of the World Trade Center. 13 years ago more that 30 million Americans were not unemployed, and told it was the "New Normal". 13 years ago the President did not claim, and USE, the Power to detain, indefinitely, American Citizens, without trial, in secret. Or, on a whim, order you murdered. With a Flying Robot. While watching your death on TV. With Jay-Z. | ||
| Aesquire |
I basically carry them throughout the day. When the company is finally reorganized, they will go and I will stay. LOL. I hear that from a lot of people. The first part is often true. Lots of shops have a few competent folk and bunch of drones. If you go or stay depends entirely on the mental makeup of the bosses, and their perception of YOUR attitude. If your competence threatens them, logic may mean nothing... good bye. I don't care about what they make because they don't pay my bills. That's actually a very healthy attitude. A self confident competent person such as yourself shouldn't have trouble getting another job. If there are any. Working for, ( say ) a Medical Technology company isn't so easy now that the New Normal Tax is forcing them to cutback. That's not the Problem with Kodak, Hostess, or other Buggy Whip companies that have a shrinking customer base. ( face it, less people buy Snoballs, and now I can't have one. ) If you are the very best Cream Filler on earth, You might be able to get a job in the ever smaller world of Snack food. In the near future, you can't get a Job in your field after President Bloomberg Outlaws Cream Filled Treats. Get the difference? | ||
| Pwnzor |
13 years ago I didn't know I'd be in prison 5 years ago. Perhaps the cream fillers of the world chose their career paths poorly. As a child, I loved trucks, always wanted to drive them. 90% of my working life has had something to do with trucks. It has always seemed to me a great way to make a living, and let's face it: everything gets delivered on a truck. Most products get on at least three trucks before you buy them. No matter what other businesses come and go, trucks will deliver the goods. Knowing what I do, and with the experience I have, I can go to almost any trucking or transportation company and make a decent living. I'm not rich, and I don't begrudge the guys who are rich. Somebody has to OWN all the equipment. Me, I've owned quite a bit, but the little guy gets stomped out pretty easily by the big guys. The big guys started out small, they just did it better than I did. I still enjoy a measured amount of success and can do so within almost any organization. I don't think at any point in my life if you had pitched a cream-filler's path at me I would have thought it a sound decision. It is the job of a drone, the repetitive motion and mundane non-precision assembly type position that almost anybody probably can do... more probably a machine does it better than any man can. Such is life. I get regular job offers from the managers of other big freight forwarders here in Atlanta and across the country. I know air, rail, sea and ground. I have immersed myself in it. I know the laws, the realities, the economy and the mechanics of it. 13 years ago I was almost as prepared for what is happening today as I am right now. I look ahead, and you won't find a boat or a Mercedes in my driveway. No debt other than the house note. Some money in the bank, some in a metal box in an undisclosed location. If currency becomes valueless, it is just that. I won't worry about the scrip stashed in the box, because it will be useless. At that point, money will be the least of any of our problems. | ||
| Pwnzor |
You guys crack me up. I had a big long response all typed up but just deleted it all. You people are not worth wasting my time arguing with. Later. I'm taking my ball and going home! WTF do you mean by "you people"? You mean the ones with reasoned, measured statements and responses based in fact rather than unsubstantiated rumors based on lies? Those people? These people? Which people?  | ||
| 6gears |
By "you people" I mean the type of person who wants to always have the last word and force their opinions upon people who really don't care. Thats what the •••• I meant. I apologize again for posting one comment in the thread you own now. I did not spend all day researching the "facts" before posting. I will NEVER post on anything other than motorcycles on here again. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I don't need the last word at all... ...but when somebody gets it, I feel it should be factual and/or truthful. I hope the rest of your day goes better than it has so far. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
13 years ago I was partying...... | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
Cream fillers? We're not talking about just the cream fillers. We're talking about bakers, sales men, route sales, truck drivers, accountants, IT people and so on. Yes, things have to be delivered but are you going to make your own bread? The truck driver has to eat.... | ||
| Pwnzor |
So... make something people want. I will get it there on time as promised. | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
So... make something people want wonder bread is (was) the number one selling white bread in the U.S. And i'm pretty sure hostess is pretty high up on the snack sellers. Colombo was #1 in sourdough at one point, though not sure where that ranked when IBC bought them. so I'm pretty sure they had things people wanted.. I think there's more to this than meets the eye. | ||
| Slaughter |
Bimbo is high on the list of candidates to buy. They are already the world's largest bread company. Funny thing is that last year they'd offered Hostess a little more than $500Mil - and were refused. Now Hostess' assets are like $130M. Bargain. | ||
| Boltrider |
Maybe Little Debbie is hiring. | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
I call shenanigans on what happened here... anyway Hostess is not for sale, though the recipes are for sale. Bimbo just bought it's largest competitor (sara lee) and had to sell a good portion of it on the west coast due to monopoly laws. but they didn't buy Sara lee for the brand they just wanted to take over the bakeries in the mid west and anything else they gain is just a bonus. Bimbo will also be shutting down Entenmanns early next year on the west coast as well as it's resteraunt division old country. little debbie is always hiring. from what I hear They don't pay enough to keep good employees long though that may change as good paying jobs are hard to come by these days.. | ||
| Pwnzor |
It matters not to the trucker who bakes the bread. Somebody will. And a truck will deliver it. I am hiring. Class A CDL's to run 48 states. | ||
| Cowboy |
I dont like store bread anyway I prefer buscuits (scones) |
