| Author | Message | ||
     7873jake |
Anyone here got experience in working with concrete? Actually, Sacrete or Quikrete One of my neighbors wants to add an 8' x 16' concrete slab on to the front of his shed/workshop foundation as a work area/bike wash spot. Currently, the shed opens straight in to grass/dirt and he wants to change that. The dilemma is that he (probably with my help, if it can be called that) doesn't anticipate having enough time to pour the entire slab in one day and was contemplating doing it in 4 sections to avoid having to rush to complete the thing between sunrise and sun down. Any experience or caveats in pouring an 8' x 16' slab in stages? The slab will be in central Fla so cold issues likely won't apply. We realize that the thing would end up with four joints. He was working out a way to incorporate rebar between the four quadrants so that the slab would be tied together somehow versus creating four small, individual slabs floating in different directions over time. The thing would probably be between 4-6" thick on very flat ground. Thoughts, admonitions, suggestions? | ||
| Leftcoastal |
I'd suggest putting a temp. form at the joint lines and remove it as each adjoining section is poured. Notch the form boards around the rebar so it'll lift off. Any concrete that weeps through under the rebar won't be a problem. My experience with pouring concrete is you are WAY better off hiring a pro. They have all the tools and could probably knock this out in a day, including forming, rebar, pouring and finishing. Not a big job for them. Maybe for you. | ||
| Hootowl |
You could have a concrete truck come out and pour into a form that you built, but you'll still need to screed and float it. The float you'll need is several hundred dollars. I think you'll be better off hiring it out. It isn't that much work for a crew who knows what they're doing. Your major cost will be the concrete, if you do the rebar and form work yourself. You may not even need rebar, since it isn't structural. Most driveways where I live don't have rebar in them. | ||
| Tq_freak |
Agree--- helped (use the term loosely) my brother in law pour to slabs not to long ago in Ocala. they were larger then what your neighbor os trying to do. we set the forms for the outside and did the base fill and pack our self and he hired someone to pour and level. WAY cheaper to get it buy the truck then what it would have been in bags from lowes only down side is you would have to buy a full truckload, think that's about 9 yards if i am right. Could be mistaken. | ||
| Hootowl |
You don't need to buy a whole truck full, they will mix what you ask for. I'm pretty sure there's a minimum charge though, for fuel, and the trip and what not. Most will charge a waiting fee too, if you're not ready for them when they show up. I just had some ditch liner poured, and it was way less than 9 yards. The truck still came. Find a crew that will do the job for you, and let them schedule the truck. They know what buttons to push. | ||
| 7873jake |
These were my suspicions having just watched the guys pour our pool and decks over the summer. He and I could wrestle with the dang thing for three weekends in a row or pay someone to knock the thing out in a day and be done, no seams, no joints. I was interested in 'helping' until I began to realize that each weekend for about the next month would be concrete. I'd like to try it once for the experience...once. It doesn't help that we are entering prime riding season in FLA now too. | ||
| Sifo |
I wasn't going to respond because I don't have concrete experience, but we did have a 10x20 pad done about 20 years ago. They were in and out in a day and the cost wasn't that bad. | ||
| Britchri10 |
Call a professional. I've framed, mixed from bags & poured a 16' x 10' slab myself in the past. I didn't have a bull float, so finished it by hand. It looked crappy and took me 4 days to do it all from start to finish. My wife nearly left me, my son learned a lot of new words and my back has never forgiven me. I worked out the cost Vs have someone do it for me. I saved c$200.00.  Chris C | ||
| Gentleman_jon |
Don't forget the wire mesh to prevent cracks, and a 4" stone bed to properly support the concrete. A concrete sealer is a good idea too. Here is a very useful link on the subject: http://www.mosbybuildingarts.com/services/question .php/concrete-slab-with-fiber-mesh-or-wire-mesh-re -46 Bottom Line: preparing, pouring and finishing concrete slab is very easy - if you know how. Call a couple of pros, get some bids, and let them do it properly. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Same here in France, not worth the grief of diy, pay the extra & have the peace of mind of a professional job. Alternatively find some old ex military instant runway panels & stake em down. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Agree do it once do it right. it's not rocket science but does take a decent amount of experience and skill to make it look good. Concrete is very heavy work. almost 9,000lbs of concrete for your slab right at 2.3cuyds at a 6" thickness. hire it out. | ||
| Sifo |
One other point that may or may not apply to you. Permits in our town are a b!tch! The pros know their way around that stuff and I never had to deal with it at all. | ||
| Strokizator |
Reminds me of a story. Davy Crockett is standing on the ramparts at the Alamo when he sees several hundred Mexicans running in his direction. He turns to Jim Bowie and asks, "Are we pouring concrete today?" | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Dad and cousin poured a slab in the "grease house" on the farm in the 60's. About 10x25. All raw mixed with a hoe and a wheelbarrow. Two days with a redwood joint down the center. Leveled with a 2x4 and hand troweled to perfection.Still there today and I still have the wheelbarrow. Not for the timid...  | ||
| Sifo |
My brother helped some pros that did the floor of his pole barn as a side job. It whipped him and he spent much of the time staying out of the way. It's heavy stuff! | ||
| 12x9sl |
Not only will the pros do it in less time and for the same or less money, doing it as one pour will be WAY stronger. I go overboard on most stuff I do, but I would ask for rebar and not mesh....just think it is stronger. The extra money is going to be enough to make much difference. | ||
| 6gears |
Seriously... I work around this crap every day, it is NOT that hard. 3 guys and a case of beer would have this done and drying in about 6 hours. All you have to do is make sure the area is level, nail together some 2x4s for the form making sure it is square and straight. Cut some 2x4s into stakes to hold the forms in place. You can use a 2x4 for the leveling screed to work the slab down. You can rent an edger and bull float from about any rental place for pretty cheap to finish it. Personally if it is outside and you want to wash on it I would broom the finish, not slick finish it. Brooming really hides imperfections. You will want to put concrete wire in for strength, you can get that at Lowes. I have poured all the concrete around my place over the years... probably about 50 yard worth or so. The last pour I helped with at work was a small pour of a little less than 400 yards. | ||
| Doubled |
If it isn't going to get any more traffic than a bike or lawnmower don't bother going 6" thick. Along Washington State highways all of the sidewalks are 4" thick and driveway entrances into businesses (some of which get a lot of truck traffic) are 6", none of it reinforced. The most important thing is to make sure the ground under it is well built. I would recommend putting an inch or two of 5/8" minus crushed rock under it, get it wet, then hit it with a plate wacker until it's nice and firm. Don't over water it though, just get it a little damp. As the other guys have said, I would leave the concrete work to the pros. Forming isn't too bad but pouring and finishing is back breaking work and difficult to make it look good. Also, most pre-mix places around here have a light load charge, but all told it's generally cheaper than QuikCrete from the store. | ||
| Blake |
The biggest mistake DIYers make is not using any reinforcement. Remesh is great for small slabs. | ||
| Rich |
I poured thousands of cubic yards in my former career. I learned two things- 1. Concrete will crack(hopefully where you want it to) 2. No one will steal it Hiring a pro will get you the best result, but if you do decide to do it yourself, do it in one pour. Cold joints will come back to haunt you. You can rent a bull float or any tools you may need. Slope it away from the building, we used to do 1/4" per foot. At 6" thickness, you're still under 3 cubic yards, so I'd check the minimum and maybe make the slab bigger to use it all. You can get fiber mesh in the concrete or use wire. If you're only going 4" thick, I wouldn't use rebar. | ||
| Rich |
Sorry, got off the original question. A couple years ago, I replaced a piece of my sidewalk with Quikrete. My neighbor has an electric mixer, so I mixed it and wheelbarrowed it into place. It worked great, and will outlive me. Resist the urge to put more water in the mix to make it easier to work. Jake, I live in DeBary, so I can help finish, no lifting, though. (Message edited by Rich on November 09, 2012) | ||
| Whistler |
Almost finished with a building and driveway project involving a fair amount of concrete work. Most of the driveway work involved removing an exiting concrete drive. Had to remove it due to deterioration and extensive cracking. Old drive had no rebar and thin wire mesh only at the joints. We had a drought last year and it took its toll on drives and foundations in our area. Poorly constructed projects fared badly while the superior jobs did much better. For example, my folk's drive was poured with a section using rebar and a section with no rebar but a fiberglass additive. Fiberglass section now has 1/4" and larger cracks while the rebar section has little to no cracking at all. May I suggest good prep work including base materials with properly placed rebar and a reputable experienced concrete company that will not skimp on the all important mix. You may also want to consider treating the concrete after a month or so with a sealer. We used sodium silicate which will penetrate and harden the concrete as well as resist moisture. Hope the project goes smoothly. | ||
| Aussie2126 |
6gears nailed it - it is not that hard - especially for that small of a slab. My brothers and I have poured all of our own concrete including the slab for several (4)large shops that we each now own (40 x 50)and the driveways and sidewalks to support. Do not mix your own as it is much cheaper to buy it off the truck. Here the minimum buy is 3 yards - do not be afraid to send some back, it is still cheaper. Make sure that you do not get cheap and short the load. You do not want to be half a yard short (ask me how I know). Buy the lumber you need for the forms - we use 2 x 6s as we find it to be easier to work with - not as many bottom leaks and less backfilling the form. Scrape down the form boards after you are done (water and a paint scraper). You will use them again. Once you have done this you will find lots of areas that "need" concrete. Oh yea, have the forms all set before you even think about scheduling the truck. | ||
| 7873jake |
Ok, so this topic grew to a much bigger size than I expected but, in this instance, that's been a good thing for me (and a nice change from politics). In order to certify this as motorcycle related, the slab will be someplace upon which an as-yet-unidentified/un-located mid-90's one owner, super low mileage, adult owned red Ducati 900SS SP for sale for $2500 would likely receive baths and beauti-fuh-cation, lest we digress to a motorcycle board becoming a contractor forum  I'll touch on a few things here: thankfully permits are not tough to get for this kind of stuff as we are county residents, not city. Nevertheless, that's a good call. I think we will build the forms and will definitely use the suggs posted here re: packing, filling and using remesh. From there, I think we'll pay for someone to come work it from the truck to the final slab. I'm thinking that I have a few areas that I wish were concrete in the back yard so I may build up the forms and combine the two jobs in to one order. Like many of you have said, it ain't rocket science but, like shim-over-bucket valve adjustments, if you've not done them before or with someone possessing the skill, the end product may not necessarily be pretty. I'm in debt to each of you for taking the time to add pertinent info to this thread. Rich, I see so few Buells around me that I was beginning to think I live in a Buell desert. I live in Deland and work in Sanford so I'm back and forth through your area often although it seems like not much on the Buell (or the Triumphs) lately. Thanks for the offer and, like you, was hoping (falsely) that I could avoid the lifting parts too. We'll see... | ||
| Chauly |
+1 on the "extra projects". I like to go ahead and form up simple stuff, even if it's a series of squares or rounds, to take the left-over concrete that you (wisely)over-ordered. You always need stepping stones, step treads, retaining blocks, etc. around the yard. A neat thing I saw was to have 2 x 6 square forms made up, then when ready to pour them, pour them half way up, put a layer of 2 mil poly on top, stamp or punch a series of pattern dimples in the plastic-covered concrete, then pour up the rest of the way. When set, the two haves will split away from each other, and you have an interesting pattern in both pieces. | ||
| 7873jake |
I've been to a bar on the gulf coast of Florida that must have done that and then made table tops out of them. Glasses would not sit level but the effect was pretty cool...a tactile experience for sure. Crappy table top though. | ||
| Sifo |
The difference between shimming valves and pouring concrete is that it's pretty easy to take another shot at shimming the valves the next day.  I do think the job your are talking about is doable as a DIY. I just don't think the cost would be worth it, especially considering too rental, etc. Doing the prep work and forms is certainly a DIY sort of thing. Then watch and learn as they finish the job. I wish I had been home to watch when they did our slab. I have some of those jobs that I would like to do, but just haven't yet. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
you can get a concrete truck and have them mix in the fiberglass mesh right in the concrete and will work fine. I'd pay a professional to do it if I was you. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Rules for pouring concrete: 1. If you think you can do it with X number of people double that number may be enough. 2. If you need more than 3 bags of Quickcrete for a single pour get it hauled in. 3. Concrete with rebar or mesh will crack, without it it will crack worse. 4. If none of you has done concrete work before you're screwed. If two people have limited experience you're still screwed because they will argue about the right way to do things. G | ||
| No_rice |
7 years of concrete work... cant say i miss it. although i ran a prestressed concrete crew making huge bridge beams. that was a dangerous job. when it takes a 4ft diameter hydraulic ram to stretch the cables, and then 2 big ass cranes hooked together on the same point to stretch them more you know there is alot of tension. dont even nick the stressed cable... cut it loose wrong after its poured, and you get to watch 7ft tall 75ft long piece of concrete launch itself down the bed and slam into the other end. if youve driven over a cement bridge in iowa, and didnt die, your welcome! lol. also did alot of flat panel walls, and double t's which are used in parking structures frequently. ok im rambling... concrete is not that difficult, its just labor intensive. get a truck, dont use quick crete. you'll double your time and work, as well as probably cost. and if you can find a small cement stinger vibrator, it will help work alot of the air pockets out of the slab. plus it does alot of the knock it down leveling for you. |
