| Author | Message | ||
     Redbuelljunkie |
Posted on a BMW forum: Future BMW owners should be interested in this... Right To Repair Act 2012 http://www.righttorepair.org/main/default.aspx Why? Because based on information I have gotten from a mechanic currently in training for the 2013 R1200GS, future BMW owners need to know what's coming. On the 2013 R1200GS, all of the electronic pin connectors are secure- and require seven different proprietary tools to disconnect them. Attempts to disconnect the wires without the OEM tool destroys the connectors. On the 2013 R1200GS, like newer BMW models, the maintenance schedule is dictated by the on-board computer. The new R12, however, now gets connected to the new BMW service computer system at the dealer which has a server that talks directly to Munich. The corporate computer system in Munich, via the web, then disseminates what maintenance is to be done, what parts are required (by part number), catalogs the completion of the service, resets the on-board computer, and all records are kept by the BMW corporate computer system in Munich. This should not cause any issues for BMW customers who only wish an authorized BMW dealer to maintain their motorcycle. For any prospective BMW owners who wish to do their own maintenance, use any part/product/chemical/accessory that is not OEM BMW, or have concerns about voiding their warranty- here's your heads up. | ||
| Aeholton |
Man I love my old airhead! | ||
| Bbbob |
BMW has always had a good amount of proprietary tools, they can be purchased. The big thing the new computer system does over the old one is it keeps records of any work done on the bike at the dealer. The old system just kept records of recall & warranty work. The same system has been used in the BMW auto dealers for a while now. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act violation anyone? | ||
| Cataract2 |
More and more it's getting harder to just do work at home. Why I'm in no hurry to get a new car. | ||
| Azxb9r |
The same system has been used in the BMW auto dealers for a while now. Nothing new here folks...move along By law all service tools must be available to the aftermarket at a "reasonable cost". We have been dealing with this type of thing with automobiles for a while now. The main problem is the definition of "reasonable cost" is not always what an individual would consider reasonable. The other problem is that once you buy the hardware, it wont work without the software (also available at a reasonable cost). BMW has used their car technology on their bikes more quickly than the other manufacturers, but I would not be surprised to see others follow suit. | ||
| Fast1075 |
If I was a manufacturer, I would do anything I could to keep all the work to myself. I work in HVAC/R and there are many companies whose products are proprietary. A guy t work had the battery fail on his newish GM SUV. No problem, in my part of Florida there is an auto parts store on every block it seems. He jumped it off, went to auto zone, got a battery and a charging system test. Good to go! Wait a minute. The A/C does not work properly. It seems that if the battery is changed, the A/C and a few other things will not work without a "reset" that has to be done, Guess Where? A trip to the dealer and $125.00 later, everything works again. Brilliant!!! | ||
| Union_man |
It seems to me like the only worry would be a warranty violation. Good thing I can't ever afford a new bike! I have never had a warranty to worry about on a motorcycle. I have never kept a motorcycle of mine stock either! | ||
| Cityxslicker |
The BMW has been cloned, copied and reimagined the globe over. The Soviets bought five of them from Sweden, took them home, disassembled them, and copied them to produce their 'own' motorcycle. Their version of the airhead is still largely unchanged from those originals the tools will be re-engineered, pirated, stolen, copied, outsourced and up on ebay. that caveat is next to the writing on the wall. | ||
| Danger_dave |
It's one of the buzz words of the teens. 'Ecosystems' - designed to keep the client within, managed - and satisfied - prompting repeat business. Some work well for me. Some I choose not to engage. If I had a R1600GT (which I'd seriously dig) I'd want the good computer anyway. Panty bunching usually occurs when trying to use only part of the system. | ||
| Kenm123t |
I saw a Ural side hack converted to a Diahatsu 3 cylinder diesel with turbo charging! the radiator was mounted in the front of the hack. It looked like it was ridden a lot never did see who rode in on it. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I don't see how a record-keeping system violates the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. Everything you did to your bike or car is already on record at any dealershiop/independant shop you did the work at. Aside from centralizing the data for the manufacturer, I don't see what this changes. Okay, so you need a tool to take the connectors apart. Who here would honestly start digging into a repair that required electronic parts themselves while the the bike was still under warranty... | ||
| Pwnzor |
Me. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I guess I just value my time too much to be doing work for free that should be someone else's problem. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
I guess I just value my time too much to be doing work for free that should be someone else's problem. I guess I just have less confidence in a dealer's abilities than I do my own! | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'd be terrified of that, particularly on a BMW motorcycle. I'm just outside of Cincinnati, Ohio. Hardly a small market. I think my nearest BMW dealer is 2 hours away in Indiana. So 4 hours round trip to drop it off, 4 hours round trip to pick it up. Because you know that during peak season they arn What about when it is out of warranty? What if its an easy cheap fix while in warranty, but I don't want to spend ***8*** hours driving with a bike in a truck to fix it, I'd rather just slap on the new part myself. Ow! | ||
| Paint_shaker |
All of my street bikes are airheads and have carbs. I have ecmspy for the race bike. I'll not buy a bike that HAS to be serviced at a dealer! | ||
| Datsaxman |
The mechanic at the end of the street here (and he is very good...) offered me his 750i for $1500. It needs the heads off to replace one of the gaskets. Problem is that resetting the VVT requires the purchase of a $2500 tool. Interesting that a sound used engine can be had for...about $2500. WOW! Reasonable cost, eh?? The top of the line, full luxe BMW selling for less than a similar vintage Civic as a result... | ||
| 6gears |
Fast... It seems that if the battery is changed, the A/C and a few other things will not work without a "reset" that has to be done, Guess Where? Not entirely true. There is a reset process that you can do manually and it has nothing to do with GM trying to get you to bring it to the dealer. The auto climate system uses electric drive motors that loose their memory of positions when the battery goes completely dead. Simple..... | ||
| Kenm123t |
Data the local repair shops are getting them and building a car out of two or three since minor collisions end up totalling the cars. radiators coolers etc will be 4k or more for parts alone. In south fla its about impossible to sell a repaired Bmw the dealers scan the paint to see if its been repainted. Its funny to see a 7 series in palm beach one week and two weeks later the same car is cruising the hood! | ||
| Xl1200r |
In all reality, special tools are nothing new and if there's enough demand, someone will come out with a cheaper alternative. Not exactly the same, but my Triumph requires a 46mm socket to get the rear wheel off and 19mm hex for the front. Not exactly rare, but not something the typical home mechanic is likely to own. In fact, my local hardware store didn't even have the hex (key or socket), so I made one out of a bolt and a couple nuts. I need a special OBDII cable to balance the throttle bodies. A funky spanner to adjust the chain tension. As for the BMW connectors, if you don't want to buy the tool, just cut the wires and solder them back together! | ||
| Azxb9r |
As for the BMW connectors, if you don't want to buy the tool, just cut the wires and solder them back together! I truly hope that you are joking  | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
My XB needed a special tool to get the rear axle out, my M2 needs a special tool to spread the frame so I can change the belt. That Buell fella, sheesh he's got us all by the short & curlies. I mean jeez it's plastered everywhere in the owners manual that this that or the other could cause "serious injury or death! But there's no special tool warning! Why doesn't it say "Purchasing this vehicle may oblige you to buy the necessary tools to service it if you don't want to pay your official dealer." A serious oversight that my lawyers are working to exploit. Come on now this isn't anything new, remember torx? then spline? then inverse torx? I bet when hex headed bolts came out somebody said "Bastards, now I'll have to get new tools." I've still got a BA socket set with 5/16" square drive it's a Snap-On set in a steel box, belonged to my Grandad. Even one of the oldest Snap-On guys in the UK had never seen one before. Standards change, technologies advance, get over it. You can bet that any tools you need will be coming out of China within months, sure they may not be pro quality, but if you want that you'll have to pay pro prices. | ||
| Sifo |
While we are discussing tools... In the US sockets are 1/4, 3/8, or 1/2 inch drive. What do they use on the other side of the pond? | ||
| Kenm123t |
Have Grumpy explain Whitworth LOL I have a JCB 520 Telehandler metric british standard pipe threads and a few bolts SAE ! | ||
| Sifo |
I'm familiar with Whitworth.  | ||
| Britchri10 |
If I remember correctly Brit' socket drives are the same. (At least they were last time I was there - 23 years ago). However, most modern vehicles used metric sockets w/Imperial drive sizes. I am sure that modern socket drives are now in mm equivalents. YMMV Chris C (My dad can still cut a whitworth thread) | ||
| Aesquire |
55 degrees. I've had to cut my own tools for Whitworth. I've machined all new shafts for my old bud's Norton Combat Commando's trans. BSF= British standard fine. BSW= British standard weird. Right? The US officially went metric in 1895. It's the law. No one paid attention. |
