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Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 12:55 pm: | 
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Sifo, my actual views and thoughts on the topic are completely irrelevant. I haven't said a word based on what I personally believe about it because oddly enough I know it's my OWN OPINION. It's what I believe and how I feel sure, but that doesn't mean it's actually right or that I'm going to try and force it on anyone else. I'm not dumb enough, nor do I have the time, to get into an internet pissing contest with narrow minded people whining like 5 year olds, unable to just grow up and realize that EVERYTHING in the world will happen whether you like it our not, irregardless of any amount of effort you put into swaying people to think like you do, instead of for themselves.
I assume this is in response to me saying... "I guess ambiguous was what you were shooting for. Keep in mind, being so ambiguous also makes almost certain that your thoughts will be ignored by everyone."
I wasn't trying to prompt you to get into anything you don't want to stick your nose into. You did stick your nose in though, and kept it so ambiguous that what you said is virtually meaningless. From your latest posts, I surmise that meaningless is what you are shooting for. Well played. |
99savage
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2012 - 10:11 pm: |
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99 SAVAGE timothy Mc Veigh was by no means a leftist.. YOU need to do your research. Tim was actually an extremist to the right. VERY anti govt. a strong supporter of the outrage over ruby ridge and the branch davidian compound massacre. mc viegh was a registerd republican and a VERY strong supporter of the NRA and gun rights. actually he requested a catholic chaplain at his execution.. he was not an atheist. Get your facts straight
Would respectfully request that YOU get your facts straight, drawing conclusions based on the received wisdom of the Left is dangerous.
Followed T. McVeigh w/ some intensity, grew up about a mile from where I did, parents about the same age as I; must have met them but cannot recall it – BUT – MOST IMPORTANTLY, over the span of the last 50 years he was about the only New Yorker who did anything competently – anti social to be sure, but competent.
Tis true that he enjoyed firearms and I missed that he was a registered Republican, which is flat out weird for Western NY (and forfeits any possibility of Civil Service employment)
Other than that about all of the above is wrong
Leftist sentiments: save for fond reference to firearms you could read the following in “The Nation”
http://www.outpost-of-freedom.com/mcveigh/okcaug98 .htm
Religion: Can’t find the originals letters online – but- McVeigh stated . . . . ‘“that science is his religion”. . . . . a day before the execution, McVeigh wrote a letter to the Buffalo News identifying as agnostic” (Got to read that letter in hard copy.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh
Wikpedia says that “he took the Catholic sacrament of the Anointing of the Sick” & I say “bunk” he read or had read the poem Invictus
If you are really curious about him
http://www.trutv.com/library/crime/serial_killers/ notorious/mcveigh/nichols_17.html
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Tom_b
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 10:49 am: |
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LOL @ 99 savage.. Agnostic is someone who expresses a belief, but has doubts. an atheist is someone who has no belief whatsoever. Agnostic and atheist are two completely different things. Why would a leftist be a supporter of white seperatist groups? Why would a leftist be outraged over Ruby Ridge and the Branch Davidian incident? Enjoy firearms? to say the least he owned a small arsenal of semiauto rifles and small firearms. But he did request a catholic priest and did take the sacraments you can say "bunk" all you want. they even found a copy of the "turner Diaries" in his car when arrested. He was carrying a pistol under his jacket and they found several more guns in the trunk. How much more radical right wing can you be?? regardless of what you say. Google all you want. any idiot can post anything on the web that is not true. the sources on wikipedia are at least verifiable. Just in case you don't know what the "turner Diaries" are it is a novel about a group of right wing extremists trying to overthrow the us govt.
(Message edited by tom b on August 18, 2012)
(Message edited by tom b on August 18, 2012) |
Tom_b
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 11:03 am: |
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"An Essay on Hypocrisy" by Timothy McViegh. shows no leftist leanings just points out what he believed to be a "hypocrisy" and compares his actions to that of th US govt. which is laughable. I do not need to read anymore about this. I have read enough about him. I have been to the Murrah memorial twice. i live less than 100 miles from where he and nichols built the bomb, and rented the truck. Heard all about it when it happened and followed the story to his end
(Message edited by tom b on August 18, 2012) |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 11:17 am: |
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The whole "left/right" political nomenclature is pretty useless when discussing people like this. I think Jerry Pournelle's diagram provides much better descriptions of people based on their political beliefs:
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Sifo
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 12:54 pm: |
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The whole "left/right" political nomenclature is pretty useless when discussing people like this.
I tend to agree with that statement to a large degree. IMO McViegh wasn't displaying coherent rational though in what he did.
On the issue of he had guns so he must be a right winger, that just isn't true at all. In fact you see the liberal hypocrisy all the time with liberals that think only other people shouldn't have guns.
I really have no idea where McViegh stood politically. I can say that his actions are not inline with the political right. The political left however seems to have a long history of violence. I would be happy to provide numerous examples from recent history if anyone doubts this. Most recently, though thankfully nothing like McViegh... http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/romney-support er-spat-protester-wisconsin_650154.html There are scores of these sorts of things from the left happening all the time and they tend to be dismissed as being just a small minority. That small minority seems to exist mostly on the left though. |
Boltrider
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 01:39 pm: |
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The same could be said of Jared Loughner. He was very irrational and his political leanings were tough to pin down. |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 03:14 pm: |
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That's the cool thing about Pournelle's chart. We think of Communists being extreme left wing and Nazis being extreme right, but they BOTH believe in supreme government control of everything, so in that respect, they're very similar. Pournelle's graph puts them both at the extreme right, but one at the top and one at the bottom.
I'd guess McViegh would have been somewhere in the lower left of this chart, because he apparently hated the government. |
Tom_b
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 04:50 pm: |
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mc viegh owning guns was not the single factor with him being " right extremist". The total of his views and actions. He never said he hated govt.. Just the current style of govt. No more different than anyone on here saying they hate the president. Not the presedntial position, just the current one. Except Mc viegh wanted a complete change of our system
(Message edited by tom b on August 18, 2012) |
Blake
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 06:47 pm: |
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Naziism being right wing is a lie perpetrated by leftists. |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 09:23 pm: |
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Blake, are saying the National Socialist Workers Party is leftist?
What a surprise. ( unless you are literate and bother to look... )
Me, I don't give a damn what Tim wanted. He did it wrong.
Don't care what Major Hassan wanted at Ft. Hood either. He did it wrong.
True, for some causes, there is no doing it right. No matter what the Islamists do to conquer the world, I'll still oppose them. I'd oppose them if they were Hindu, Baptist, or Shinto. You want to impose a theocracy, expect to have to kill a lot of people, I'm not the only one to object.
You have an issue with the way a war is being run, ( and many of us do... pick your war, we're doing several as we speak ) you talk to the press, you run for office, you protest in front of the white house... If you are dedicated, smart and talented, you might get some progress. ( In America anyway, that still can happen )
You kill a bunch of kids, to make a point? Your cause should never be allowed to win.
Yes I'm aware of the problem with that attitude. |
Gregtonn
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2012 - 10:24 pm: |
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"Tonn, you're a damn good shot but don't let them make you a sniper."
"Why not?"
"Because politicians pick the targets."
G |
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