| Author | Message | ||
     Rohorn |
Page 12 in the August RW has a short article on EBR's interest in WSB, the 1190RX, and plans for 2013... | ||
| Hughlysses |
Woah... | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Link snap shot etc? | ||
| Nallac |
Thats just a Tease...... | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
no its a verbal sneek peak, basically saying it is almost exactly the same bike as the RS but minus the highend components, i.e. normal dashboard, lower suspension (probably BPF's), aluminum wheels (although the same amazing design), plastic body work, etc... same chassis and engine (probably a little less power i would imagine) in order to get into WSBK you need to sell over 1000 bikes, so Erik said he's expecting sometime in the next year or 2 to be in WSBK....so id be expecting an announcement of production very soon...im personally thinking the July dealer show.. Jake | ||
| Crusty |
Which Dealer show? I don't think the new EBRs will be at the H-D Dealer show. Is EBR having their own dealer show? | ||
| Ridenusa4l |
I may have been mistaken for the HD show...so dont quote me...i was merely guessing and rather optimistically at that lol Jake | ||
| Trojan |
in order to get into WSBK you need to sell over 1000 bikes, .... Not strictly true. Manufacturers who have not had a bike homologated before for FIM competition need to build a total of 2000 road equipped bikes (of the same model and spec as originally homologated) by December 31st of the year following application for homologation. This is applied in stages as shown in the piece from the FIM regs below: 1.2.1 First time application for a homologation Manufacturers which have never taken part in either of the FIM Superbike World Championship or the Supersport World Championship with any of their eligible models and are requesting either a Superbike or a Supersport homologation must follow the procedure below: • The manufacturer must have produced at least a quantity of 125 motorcycles prior to the homologation inspection. The motorcycle must be on sale to the public at that time. • The minimum quantity of 500 units must be reached by the end of June of the current year. • The minimum quantity of 1000 units must be reached by 31st of December of the current year. • The minimum quantity of 1500 units must be reached by the end of June of the following year. • The minimum quantity of 2000 units must be reached by 31st of December of the following year. • All motorcycles must be identical to the model to be homologated with the same specifications. • Proof of production quantities must be provided by certified documentation as stated in Article 2.9.2. • The FIM will withdraw the homologation if these rules are not respected. In other words, EBR must have produced 125 bikes when they make their application for homologation (not a problem I expect). They then need to build 2000 bikes over the next 24 months (could be less time depending on exactly when the application is made I expect) to keep the homologation and allow that model to continue in FIM competition. In the 'old' days a company could make a woolly half hearted promise to build the required number of bikes which was then never properly checked or followed up by the FIM. This has now been stopped after Foggy Petronas ripped the backside out of the rules and didn't produce a single road bike even after 3 years of WSB racing. It is now pretty well policed. | ||
| Davegess |
Foggy Petronas ripped Yeah they pretty much destroyed the old "wink, wink" method. Folks like Ducati or Bimota, and event he Big Three, would make a small number of bikes they would actually sell but they would be so costly that no one would actually order one, then you could say "we had them available but no one bought them". Too bad, some pretty cool bikes were made in very limited numbers. | ||
| Jaimec |
Like the Harley Davidson VR1000? I wasn't that familiar with the Foggy/Petronas debacle, but we had our own equivalence of that nonsense here in the states with the Harley monstrosity. 50 bikes sold for road use in POLAND somehow qualified it as a production motorcycle for an AMERICAN race series. Still shaking my head over that one. Every time some knucklehead said the AMA was "Anti-Harley" (because of their stand on loud exhausts... as if that was unique to Harley Davidson) I'd think of the VR1000. (Message edited by jaimec on June 25, 2012) | ||
| Davegess |
For a very long time these types of rules were winked at. I remember the Ferrari GTO, I think the number back then was 50 cars and about half that were ever made. | ||
| Court |
>>>>50 bikes sold for road use in POLAND somehow qualified it as a production motorcycle for an AMERICAN race series. Thus providing the collective geniuses at Harley-Davidson and Gemini Engineering the ability to make total and complete fools our of showcasing their failure for years on end . . . and for only about $50,000,000. Well done. When the dog don't bite . . . no one much gives a shit if it barks. | ||
| Natexlh1000 |
Yeah but they still looked/sounded cool going around the track. Oh well. | ||
| Chauly |
Until they didn't... | ||
| Chauly |
Anyone know Ron McGill? | ||
| Davegess |
If the VR had won we wouldn't have complained. It met the rules to the letter. | ||
| Crusty |
Psst; don't anybody mention the XBRR. Engine cases that were "melted down and re-cast". Maybe just a little nudge, nudge, wink, wink between the AMA and H-D/Buell to allow it as legally modified production bike. In its Grand Debut at Daytona, all four that were entered died and DNF. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
theres still a brand new RR locally at the dealership. I love looking at it if I ever have to go into that dealer (I dont care for that dealer, but they are the closest buell dealer, so sometimes I have to go to get a part if in a rush) | ||
| Davegess |
Racing rules have certainly evolved from the 60s and 70s. This is no more true than in the stock cars. Back in the day when they really started as production cars there was a lot of room for "interpretation". Every time a race interpertated a rule in their favor the rules got rewritten. When roll bars fist appeared they were as small as possible until some sharp guy realized he could make flexi-flyer stock chassis as stiff as he needed by adding a nice, big, complicated roll cage. Of course we have the famous "aluminum" wheels that one of the big three ran on super bikes. All the DOT certifications numbers were on them, only problem was the DOT never certified magnesium for street wheels. Less rules make everything easier and cleaner but with the power engines make today and the super sticky tires a lot of rules are needed just to maintain a reasonable level of safety. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
2000 $40,000 motorcycles? | ||
| Blake |
Not likely. See RX comment above. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
How does an RX help in WSB homologation? I don't understand? | ||
| Sifo |
How does an RX help in WSB homologation? I don't understand? I'm wondering the same thing. I would assume (keep in mind what happens when you do that) WSB rules must allow for more upgrades from a lower level bike than the AMA rules. I hope someone can explain this knowing for sure how it would work though. | ||
| Trojan |
WSB rules must allow for more upgrades from a lower level bike than the AMA rules. I hope someone can explain this knowing for sure how it would work though. WSB regs are massively different from AMA rules. AMA Superbike is more akin to a cross between FIM Superstock and Superbike than to actual WSB Superbike spec, and EBR could add a lot of trick parts to an RX and still be legal for WSB. Even things like fuel tank location can be changed in WSB (look at the differences between last years Yamaha R1 WSB bike and the current AMA bike of Josh Hayes, they don't even look similar). In theory EBR could make enough RX models to homologate the bike and then tune it to WSB spec, and add WSB spec suspension etc later on. This is what the Japanese factories and BMW have done. Alternatively they could just make a pretty close approximation of a MotoGP bike race bike, stick some lights on it and call it a road bike, which is what Aprilia did. The WSB rules are very complex on exactly what you can change and what needs to be kept stock, and are a must read if you ever have trouble sleeping  EBR wold also have to comply with the 171kg weight rules for twin cylinder bikes, although this changes season by season to try and ensure 'parity' between the twins and fours. If Ducati don't win the title this year expect the twin cylinder weight limit to drop slightly (although everyone is panicking that the new Panigale will trash the parity rules and require some other type of restriction already). | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
That makes more sense. The rules seemed to require that what was raced was what was sold. If that's the case, the RX wouldn't help a bit. If the RX ends up being largely a long legged version of the RS minus some shiny bits, I guess that qualifies? | ||
| F22raptor |
I know somebody very well (many time A.M.A champ) who tested and raced the VR-1000. He said it felt like 2 bikes held together by rubber-bands at Daytona! He also said they removed the balance-shafts to get more power but it then vibrated so bad the parts stated breaking and falling off.  | ||
| Bads1 |
Scott Russel?? Because hes the only many time champ other then Duhamel that rode the VR. | ||
| Notpurples2 |
Notice how modified this WSBK R1 is from stock. http://www.motorcyclenews.com/upload/264192/images /273978.jpg | ||
| Svh |
Russell told me something very similar in 2011 at Road America. Had a 30+ minute chat with him, Geoff and Greg White. It was hilarious! | ||
| Zenbiker |
VR1000 race effort = Too many cooks in the kitchen. |
