| Author | Message | ||
     Mr_grumpy |
Could be, could be, does it smell funny? | ||
| Geedee |
"According to this, if you go to the 2012 section, the net debt per capita of the US is higher than Greece & the lowest is in places you wouldn't want to go to. Presumably because nobody wants to lend them any money." All a load of bollocks. Double entry book-keeping. All smoke and mirrors. Problem, Reaction, Solution Watch 'The Money Masters' as a start if you really want to learn how the elite perform their trickery. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JXt1cayx0hs Any debt your government owes is owed to you, the creditor. Privately owned Reserve Banks issue credit with interest to governments, who could issue it themselves without the interest component. The people are the surety. And then, by pure magic, your government turns you into the debtor, and now you owe them. Remember too that the interest is never created, so where are you going to get it from to pay back? Syria, North Korea, and Iran are among the few nations still sovereign who don't play the game of the International Bankers, and are all on the list as terrorist nations due for a butt kicking. Money in itself has no value. Merely pieces of paper, bits of now valueless metal and mostly computer key strokes. It is a medium of exchange. The people are the value. Just as 'money' is created out of thin air, so too could 'debt' just disappear. But that's not the aim. Carry on, slave. You've got a debt to pay. | ||
| Geedee |
Englishman Nigel Farage always makes the Europeans squirm. http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd ed&v=3fi6w1C7uMs | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
He talks a good game. Personally I think he's wrong, what he's proposing is cutting adrift those who aren't pulling their weight. Much like Germany in the 20s-30s & look where that landed us. Also the sheer cost & chaos of reverting to sovereign currencies would be incredible. I've lived through 2 currency changes, the first when Britain went decimal, & the second when France went to the Euro. I hope never to have to repeat the experience. For me personally the Euro has been a godsend, I no longer have to carry a whole load of different currencies, & work out the exchange rates between them. Can you imagine a different currency in every state in the US? It's easy to criticise from a distance but until you've lived it your opinion lacks some validity I'm afraid. | ||
| Geedee |
It's easy to criticise from a distance but until you've lived it your opinion lacks some validity I'm afraid. Fair comment. Having lived in the UK, worked in Germany, & travelled Europe until 1990, I never believed the experiment would work. The Greeks can never be Germans, yet I enjoyed both cultures immensely. Having a common currency for trade is one thing, expecting people to clone into some sort of single minded euro race is foolish. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Its Different Grumpy you said your self we are a group of states 1 country not a group countrys trying to be states We are Americans with one heritage not the wildly diverse group of sometime enemies sometime allies grouped togather | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
not the wildly diverse group of sometime enemies sometime allies grouped togather You've hit the nail on the head Ken, that's exactly the point of the whole thing. Nobody expects the Greeks to behave like the Germans or the Porky's to behave like the Dutch. However a very large part of the European "experiment" is to include as many nations as possible, thus making military conflict virtually impossible between member states. That's one of the reasons so many people want to see the Eurozone hold together at virtually any cost. I'm & child of the 50s & well remember the fears of my parents that we might have to go to war in Europe again. That's not a worry I have for my kids. A religious war or crusade is a distinct possibility, but that's a different question. | ||
| Moxnix |
I doubt there are enough Christians left in Western Europe to worry you. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
It ain't the Christians generally that worry me Max, they're pretty moderate mostly, but there's a lot of stirring going on, by extremists of all shades. | ||
| Geedee |
Mr grumpy "...those who aren't pulling their weight." Politicians and bureaucrats have no idea. That's why they are what they are. Power hungry pipe dreamers trying to impose their agendas and their reality by force, regardless. They mostly totally lack empathy and understanding of the human spirit, and everything is reduced to false economics. People are mere chattel. Corporations rule. Painful as it may be, I hope the whole thing collapses. The agenda to impose four more political 'trading communities' upon the rest of us would then hopefully take a step backwards. "Nobody expects the Greeks to behave like the Germans or the Porky's to behave like the Dutch." Sure they do. Uniform regulations down to the minutest detail on every facet of life. Everybody in the same box. Can't have those lazy Spaniards having siestas, think of the lost production. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6TFY-famZA A religious war or crusade is a distinct possibility, but that's a different question. If there is it will be by design, of politicians. | ||
| Geedee |
The similarity in architecture of the EU HQ and images of the Tower of Babel is no coincidence either. My Schuberths are lined with tinfoil.  | ||
| Moxnix |
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/immigration /9291493/Theresa-May-well-stop-migrants-if-euro-co llapses.html The Euro has dropped against the $. When can we fly over and pick up bargains? | ||
| Geedee |
From Moxnix's link article: Catalonia was forced to turn to the Spanish government for a bail-out and speculation mounted that Bankia, the troubled Spanish bank, would need £15  billion in state support. So let me get this figured. The Spanish Government which is broke, borrows money from the privately owned Central or Reserve Bank with debt interest to pay back, and then lends it to the private banks, who are broke, who then lend it to the people, who are broke, and then the broke people have to pay it back with interest to the banks, who then pay themselves huge bonuses because they've done so well. Meanwhile the Government, which is still broke, cannot pay back the privately owned Central/Reserve Bank, and blames the people for being lazy and spending too much money, and upon instructions from the privately owned Central/Reserve Bank, introduces austerity measures upon the people. Brilliant. Sounds just like an Australian comedy skit. Like Iceland did, tell the bankers to go suck a lemon. | ||
| Moxnix |
Iceland did the intelligent, and right, thing. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
you know the last time we had a depression - bankers did the honorable thing, accepted responsibility for it, and jumped off a roof..... now we give them bail outs and golden parachutes.... progress ;/ | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=56&load=6888 Into the Sea. | ||
| Moxnix |
Going banko expedites the next growth cycle. The "big boys" didn't jump, just those who weren't diversified in their assets. "Clash means cash" for those who make money loaning to both sides of a war, and getting interest on their investment from the taxpayers after the peace treaty is signed. Our Persian brethren are the poster boys for international belligerency. Wrap up Syria, enter the post-Arab Spring era, and the mullahs should be digging bomb shelters and graves before the bombs start falling. Must be time to introduce conspiracy theories based on God and Mammon over in the Reeeeeee-ligious thread. Ta. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
They are up in their own arms over the money changers ie Bahrain. No natural assets of its own other than ports and banking...and they are decidedly pro US. The league of Arab states is not looking on them kindly in the last recent months...should be interesting. We get a conflict out of the region soon, whether it is Iran, Syria or a skirmish over Bahrain - it is a powder keg just waiting on the fuse to be lit. | ||
| Moxnix |
Soros, Rothschild, Morgan Stanley, Rockerfellers, Goldman Sachs, yadda, yadda, inbred British royals and goat fornicating royal familes in the Middle East, same diff. Multi-generational wealth follows patterns, always in the middle taking a pinch as the cash goes back and forth in a world economy. Get the rabble to do the dirty work in the streets, charge them taxes to pay for the rebuild every time. The League of Nations after WW1, United Nations after WWTwice, always a clever group of high minded movers and shakers wanting to control money by controlling people. Control is an interesting term, in the great international conspiracies of our NWO, international bankers, Masons, mongol hordes, Vatican bankers, Russian weapons dealers, pirates, pimps, Skull and Bones fraternity brothers and the common popular movements of the week. 'Scuse me, gotta run out for a new roll of foil for the inside of my chapeau.... | ||
| Cityxslicker |
ha ha, it is funny, in some versions of Russian history, the Mongols were 'invited' in to 'help' with organization and taxes; and were not conquerers at all. too much fun when the revisionists get ahold of history.... makes you almost believe the Civil War was about slavery. | ||
| Moxnix |
I feel perfectly comfortable in the balcony, way up in at nosebleed level, in a special section reserved for the lunatic fringe, watching the comings and goings of history on the half shell. In the Soviet doctrine era, a profasila was a move forward until there is a reaction, followed by a tactical withdrawal. In the West, the $ resources just keep being spent for a Korea, a Vietnam, etc. and now with the prop up the gypsies' global economic meltdown. Yeh, our Russian friends did over stay in Afghanistan when it was their turn, but the Soviet Air Force had a habit of not topping off fuel tanks in jets any more than needed for a mission, so the pilots couldn't high tail it over to freedom. I miss the old Cold War, even though there are so many international intrigues today it makes my aging coco spin to keep track. | ||
| Geedee |
For the Sumerian/Babylonian protagonists behind the curtain, the system has been working, but I think they are now getting desperate. Humanity is waking up to their game. The 'leaders' on the world stage are but two bit players, acting out their roles before being disgraced, replaced, or worse. They only have their scenes to play, having never read the full script. Pawns slightly up the food chain than we peons. Order ab Chao, except the chaos never ends. Bill Whittle talks some sense, but seems to make the same mistake as other commentators by suggesting the answers lie in just rearranging the deck chairs on the 'Titanic', I mean 'Olympic'. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.nationalreview.com/articles/300883/coex isting-sharia-karen-lugo The economic aspects are just part of the problem. May even be a symptom, rather than the cause. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.pjtv.com/?cmd=mpg&mpid=56 | ||
| Aesquire |
As an aside, ( assuming you watched the video above ) While taking Drivers Ed, long, long ago in High school I entered an intersection, noticed that a car was running the red light, and stepped on the gas to get out of his way...if I had slowed, stopped, or simply kept speed, I and the other 3 students and a teacher would have been hit, probably injured, possibly killed. The teacher hit the brakes. The brakes on this Oldsmobile were linked by a mechanical connection. The passenger side rider could step on the brakes, and ( usually ) stop the car, or restrain an eager and inexperienced student driver. I jammed my left foot under the brake as I jammed my right on the gas pedal. It couldn't have been a conditioned reflex. I had no training in defeating the safety gear, and the possibility that I could had never, ever, been mentioned. Yet, without recallable conscious thought, I knew that the teacher would respond to the emergency with the ONLY tool he had, and I knew that response was possibly fatal. We missed, no one was injured. Except the teachers pride..... We were all lucky. It would have been better had I seen the speeding car and processed it's vectors before pulling off at the green light. I failed to do so, and in so doing, almost had a terrible accident. Mea Culpa. ( in an analogy, Europe's current crisis should have, and by some, was seen coming. It would have been better to avoid rather than react in both cases ) The Other driver never changed course, speed or intent, and very probably didn't even see ( more importantly, process ) the car full of teens pull out directly in front of his speeding car until he was past us. He was legally at fault. ( and an impatient jerk... ) The Teacher had only one control. The brake. When suddenly we were in a dangerous situation, he did the only thing he had time for. Roar a wordless protest at fate, and stomp the pedal. ( analogy to Europe, Greece, France etc. is kinda obvious, eh? ) I was just bad enough at driving to get us into that situation. I regret that. I hope I learned from it. I was just good enough at driving to get us out of that situation. I don't regret over-riding the teachers input, since it was the wrong input at the wrong time. Analogies abound. | ||
| Geedee |
"(in an analogy, Europe's current crisis should have, and by some, was seen coming. It would have been better to avoid rather than react in both cases)" Global (U.S.) 'toxic debt' being filtered down to 'third world' European 'nations'. All by design, on purpose. War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength. George Orwell | ||
| Aesquire |
So, Germany with a strong currency and industrial powerhouse, needed to sell to other nations but the exchange rates hurt sales. Enter the Euro. Now Germany can loan money to other countries to buy Germany's stuff, and make everyone happier. Until the loans come due. Is that an accurate massive oversimplification? ( plus, of Course, a Margret Thatcher quote.... "....run out of other people's money." ) | ||
| Slaughter |
(could just as well be California) I've overspent. I asked for and received a credit limit increase. I've been out of town and had mechanical problems and needed a chunk of change to pay for engine work and got another credit bump. Now kids are in college and I've got birthdays coming and need to start buying NOW in order to "save" some money and I applied for got some store credit cards. Cool. Now I need to buy a new entertainment center and computer because I truly need bluetooth-capable and wi-fi enabled wireless controls. I called the bank to ask for a credit increase because Christmas is coming in only 6 months and I will need a credit limit increase because I can't stand the thought of not buying myself, family and friends all the goodies. Told the bank that I'm planning on a 10% raise because I haven't gotten a raise the past two years and I FEEL THAT I'm overdue. The bank is saying that they're NOT going to raise my limit or give me another card!!?? BASTARDS! I'll take my business elsewhere!! | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/jun/12/golden -dawn-hospital-immigrants-greece Watching the future for Obamacare? Consider the Immigration problem in Europe. Germany seems to have set up a doomed 2 tier system that counts on immigrants, who will NOT get full citizenship ( because of "racist" policies.. ) yet are expected to support the aging Native population in retirement. Not going to happen. ( Germany already has the Draft. You can opt out of military service, so you can spend your service time working in old folks homes instead of the Army. Brilliant! Or is it? ) | ||
| Chauly |
Is it "racist"? Or "racialist"? |
