| Author | Message | ||
     Reepicheep |
How long will a 20 cu foot tank last me for MIG welding? A buddy had a Miller 100 110 unit that I can use whenever I like, and I want to get a gas bottle for it so I can play with aluminum. No production work, and gas is fairly convenient for me (5 minutes from where I work), so if a 20 cu foot tank would last for a while I wouldn't mind refilling it more often, and it would be easier to store and move. But it the thing is going to be empty after just a few small projects I'll try and find a bigger tank used. Any ideas or experience? | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
This sounds like one of those school questions. If a man welding with a 20 cu/ft tank has big ears what colour are his socks. A. Green B. Maybe C. Yesterday | ||
| Oldog |
How long the bottle lasts is a function of the flow rate for the type of welding that you are doing, ( expressed as CFM or CFH ) and the number of inches welded .. your gas supplier may be able to help. | ||
| Jramsey |
"I want to get a gas bottle for it so I can play with aluminum." Playing with a lot of aggravation, that's all you're going to be doing IMO. To use MIG on Aluminum you really need a push/pull feeder torch/gun or a spool gun setup. 99.9 % of the time Al/MIG is for production/fab work. | ||
| Oldog |
Reep cant find ref's to miller 100 machine this is a home depot type home machine? do you have a gun like the spool mate if not you are not going to have much luck as JRamsey indicates. check the miller site http://www.millerwelds.com/products/wire_feeders/s poolmate_100/ | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thanks for the information so far all! Great stuff. Whoops! Brain cramp. It's a Lincoln Electric Weld-Pak 100HD (I am pretty sure). A consumer unit, but a pretty nice one. The spool gun conversion kit is here: http://www.lowes.com/pd_28013-1703-K610-1_0__?prod uctId=1178045 It belongs to a good friend about a mile up the road, and we both have a lot of specialty tools and try not to duplicate where possible. He said he would buy the gun if I bought the bottle. That would give us much cleaner steel welds, and give me the chance to play with MIG and Aluminum. I've been trying aluminum welding with Oxy Actylene, with mixed success. I'd like to try it with MIG and see how it works. I'd love to try it with TIG, but I can't justify the investment costs for just playing around and doing garage repairs. (Message edited by reepicheep on March 20, 2012) | ||
| Oldog |
Reep, I think that the gasses for steel and Aly are different.. | ||
| Darth_villar |
I have Tig'ed Al with 100% pure argon. Migs sometimes like other mixtures better for strictly steel, and others for strictly Al. If it is just Al, I have heard that partial Helium and Argon is good. As far as I know, you can Mig and Tig Al and steel with 100% Argon, it just isn't the absolutely most ideal gas for both. I have some limited experience with Tig on Al, but no mig experience. | ||
| Fast1075 |
Use pure argon and AC current for aluminum.(the AC current helps clean the weld) Use a stainless steel brush to clean the metal prior to welding. Use the brush ONLY for cleaning aluminum. If you use the brush as general purpose, it will contaminate the metal and cause problems. Make sure to protect your skin from the hard UV generated by welding with pure argon. It will burn you severely in very short order. The same applies to mixtures to a slightly lesser degree. Use 75% Argon / 25% Co2 DC current for most steel alloys. Reepi, the Lowes link is for a gas conversion kit for a flux core machine. A spool gun is different. The reason you need a spool gun for most Al wire is it will not feed through the long liner on a standard MIG machine. SOME large diameter relatively hard alloy wire can be fed thru a standard MIG machine, but the Wire size capacity is small on your machine. In a spool gun, a small spool of wire, usually one or two pounds is in the gun. The feed drive is also in the gun. The travel path is only a couple of inches, making small diameter wire a viable choice. (Message edited by fast1075 on March 20, 2012) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Thanks Fast. Good point. I think once I get the gas setup, the spool gun is not much more expensive... I think I priced it at one point. I assume you can use the spool gun with steel or AL? Or is it just Al? Even if I can't do AL, I would probably still want the gas setup just to get away from the flux core stuff. It works great, but I want prettier welds.  | ||
| Bandm |
About 30 minutes arc time. MIG welding aluminum requires alot of heat and uses the shielding gas for cooling the torch. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Reep get spare alum only guide tubes shavings from the drive gears get carried into the tube and steel shavings will will drag the alum wire till it buckles Go ahead and get a big tank with the proper flow meter set up its easier in the long term. we use the little ones for roofs etc. repair one part but we carry many spare bottles | ||
| Jramsey |
"the spool gun is not much more expensive" I bought 2 Miller spool-on guns between 1984-1986,one to go with my MM 200, it was $600 at the time,the other one with the constant current contactor control so I could run off my Miller engine drive was about $1,000 at the time. Maybe stuff's cheaper now? (Message edited by Jramsey on March 20, 2012) | ||
| Reepicheep |
Hrrm. OK, so much for mig welding AL. I'll stick with gas welding it. I think I still want gas for non flux core mig though... and it sounds like a bigger bottle is worth it. Thanks all! | ||
| Etennuly |
I do a lot of MIG aluminum work. That 20 cu ft bottle will last you a LONG time. Many 1 pound spools of aluminum wire will not be a problem. Mig with aluminum requires about 30% more power, or more, for the same thickness of steel. Most 110 units will not get it done. Turn the gas pressure regulator up to about 40 lbs. Weld in a completely still air environment. Any air movement will contaminate the weld with a black carbon looking mess. Using stainless steel wire brushes clean the welded area on all sides to super clean. Use an over size tip. For .023 aluminum wire use .026 tip or larger, .028 would be about the limit for wobbling your wire out-put. It starts fast, it welds fast. If you slow it down it will burn back into the tip. You must keep enough wire speed and tip distance to keep pushing the wire into the weld. I start about an inch away and immediately push in as the weld starts. It's kind of tricky, even after you have done it for years. It can be done with .030 wire through 10 feet of whip, but that doubles the fun.  And it will have you changing metal liners fairly often. Relax, breathe, go fast as the weld demands from the start, do not try to back puddle a start, just go. You will be welding aluminum upside down in no time! Welding aluminum sheet under 0.60 is like skating on thin ice. It will disappear under your weld. Try some thicker extruded or bar stock for your learning experience. Remember super clean, and no air movement really helps. Do not grind away your weld if it is not pretty enough, it's strength is in being as thick as the parts being welded. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I need to be rich and retired... or choose hobbies that take less time, money, and talent. | ||
| Etennuly |
Woah, I posted{Welding aluminum sheet under 0.60 is like skating on thin ice. The "." is in the wrong spot. It should have been .060. Sorry about that. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Well, if it was pointed at me, the statement was accurate at .06 *and* .60. I could drop a hole in aluminum trying to weld either.  I broke out the harbor freight oxy actylene micro-torch kit last night to fix a stamped sheet metal assembly though... it worked brilliantly. Incredible control to weld down a tab on the surface without deforming the back. (Message edited by reepicheep on March 21, 2012) | ||
| Nik |
Just FYI, if you use 100% Argon with a MIG on Steel you'll get really pretty welds, with little penetration. You really need a C02 mix for MIG and steel. There's no 'one gas for all metals' with MIG. | ||
| Woody1911a1 |
the lincoln spool gun is only $200 http://www.amazon.com/Lincoln-K2532-1-Magnum-100Sg -Spool/dp/B000LPWIJK/ref=sr_1_1?s=hi&ie=UTF8&qid=1 332360840&sr=1-1 you'll also need that gas conversion kit you posted earlier . even if you don't go welding alu get the gas conversion and a small bottle of c25. the difference is huge just welding steel . flux core is for farm equipment at best. cheers Woody | ||
| Reepicheep |
Cool. I can start with a smaller new tank, or a cheaper used tank if I can find one, and that gas conversion kit. Then I can move up from there as time and budget allow. I don't have a permanent welding setup anyway, so I have to move stuff and set it up when I want to weld, so the annoyance of having to frequently refil a smaller tank will be offset by it being easier to move and store. And gas refills are literally only 5 minutes out of my way on my way home from work (over the counter at Tractor Supply). | ||
| Oldog |
Reep. you might have some difficulty on that tank, you need to be careful buying tanks from individuals, as gas co's wont fill expired ( they are inspected periodicaly,) or missing tanks ( they are checked against a list of missing stollen tanks ) call the supply house look at renting or purchase thru them ... | ||
| D_adams |
The smallest tank I'd think about getting (for welding) is maybe an 80 cubic foot one. I own one of those and lease a 300 cubic foot tank. The 80 is just a weekend backup for when I run out on the big one. Both of mine are straight argon and the little one is "supposed" to last about 4 hours of straight welding time. Depending on the flow rate, I can stretch that out a little more though. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I had that problem with tanks when I got a set from an estate sale. I found a local place that will swap out their tanks for other tanks, provided you pay for a new hydro test. Seems only fair that if the tank is reported stolen, it would go back to the rightful owner, at which point I would have to pursue resolution with the seller (or eat the loss). Good point though, before I buy a used one I'll get a picture of the serial number and ping a local supplier and see if they have it on file as being stolen. I unfortunately don't see an online way to "check for stolen" by SN. |
