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86129squids
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 01:50 pm: | 
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Mox, PanDan-
 
Thanks for that! In all seriousness, therein lies much of the root of the problem- plus it being an election year.
Now- as to Tom's OP, I still wholeheartedly agree with him- he's a great dude who happens to be a great HD dealer, mutated into a great Buell advocate, even a winning racer- seems to me he's more focused on the world on 2 wheels than most here. I value his opinion as much or more than many a next guy. His admonition to "take this shit to politico or something" rings true here, on a site called...
"Badweather Bikers, A Site Dedicated to Buell Enthusiasts Worldwide".
FB, skin up a little, I seriously doubt your patriotism was the target of Tom's comment.
Again, each time I've congregated with a group of good folks on Buells, not once have I noticed such a predominance of political/religious content- the outing itself, the RIDING, the cameraderie, fellowship, shits and giggles, "fiddys", and general good humor is what makes these get-togethers sacred. To be tainted with such discourse would be poisonous, and sacrilege, to me- and I'd wager most others here.
I personally prefer my discussions involving politics or religion to be carried out face to face, with folks I know well enough to respect and appreciate. And, bottom line, in a day of 24 hours, I try to find other things to do with my time, with varying degrees of success.
I consider myself neither Democrat nor Republican, and am always mindful of the effects of "labeling theory". Now, I'm sure that by saying that, many here instinctively say "if ya ain't fer us, yer aginn us"... meh. Have at it, I aint steppin in it.
EVERY election cycle, I find my comfortable seat atop the fence, do my damndest to figure things out, vote, then jump down and get on with my life. That's the long and short of it.
As my momma taught me, be kind and do well by your neighbors- if you don't have anything good to say, say nothing... but keep listening. |
Fb1
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 02:47 pm: |
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FB, skin up a little
NoSquids, If I had a thin skin I'd be throwing a drive-by tantrum, instead of taking (considerable) time to rebut your post.
I'm just trying to have a thoughtful, respectful discussion about an important topic here on the Quick Board, which as noted previously and confirmed by Blake, DOES allow "political" threads.
As my momma taught me, be kind and do well by your neighbors- if you don't have anything good to say, say nothing... but keep listening.
Wise words, indeed. However, are you suggesting that if someone is unhappy with how our government is being run that the best course of action is to say nothing?
I suck at all of this. Please allow me to share some wisdom from one of the folks who helped create our great country:
quote:Thomas Jefferson
1816 — letter to Samuel Kercheval
Category: Budget
We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.
Reference: Jefferson: Writings, Peterson ed., Library of America (1400)
quote:Thomas Jefferson
1821 — letter to Spencer Roane
Category: Budget
The multiplication of public offices, increase of expense beyond income, growth and entailment of a public debt, are indications soliciting the employment of the pruning knife.
Reference: The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Memorial Edition, Lipscomb and Bergh, eds., vol. 15 (325)
quote:Thomas Jefferson
1823 — letter to Marquis de Lafayette
Category: Budget
[A] rigid economy of the public contributions and absolute interdiction of all useless expenses will go far towards keeping the government honest and unoppressive.
Reference: The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Memorial Edition, Lipscomb and Bergh, eds., vol. 15 (491)
I wonder what President Jefferson would have to say about our multi-trillion-dollar national debt (or the fact that a communist country holds the majority of it...)
quote:Thomas Jefferson
1791 — Opinion on a National Bank
Category: Congress
It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please. Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given them. It [the Constitution] was intended to lace them up straightly within the enumerated powers and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect.
Reference: Jefferson: Writings, Peterson ed., Library of America (418)
quote:Thomas Jefferson
1791 — Opinion on a National Bank
Category: Congress
It would reduce the whole instrument to a single phrase, that of instituting a Congress with power to do whatever would be for the good of the United States; and as they would be the sole judges of the good or evil, it would be also a power to do whatever evil they please. Certainly no such universal power was meant to be given them. It [the Constitution] was intended to lace them up straightly within the enumerated powers and those without which, as means, these powers could not be carried into effect.
Reference: Jefferson: Writings, Peterson ed., Library of America (418)
quote:Thomas Jefferson
1823 — letter to William Johnson
Category: Constitutional Interpretation
On every question of construction carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates and instead of trying what meaning may be squeezed out of the text or invented against it, conform to the probable one in which it was passed.
Reference: Jefferson: Writings, Peterson ed., Library of America (1475)
I wonder what President Jefferson would think about Mr. Obama's relentless dismantling of our Constitution.
quote:Thomas Jefferson
1816 — letter to Colonel Charles Yancey
Category:
If a nation expects to be ignorant - and free - in a state of civilization, it expects what never was and never will be.
Reference: The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Memorial Edition, Lipscomb and Bergh, eds., vol. 14 (384)
quote:Thomas Jefferson
1821 — letter to Charles Hammond
Category: Federal Government
[W]hen all government, domestic and foreign, in little as in great things, shall be drawn to Washington as the center of all power, it will render powerless the checks provided of one government on another.
Reference: Original Intent, Barton (261); original The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Memorial Edition, Lipscomb and Bergh, eds., vol. 15 (3
quote:Thomas Jefferson
1823 — letter to Judge William Johnson
Category: Federalism
[T]he States can best govern our home concerns and the general government our foreign ones. I wish, therefore...never to see all offices transferred to Washington, where, further withdrawn from the eyes of the people, they may more secretly be bought and sold at market.
Reference: Original Intent, Barton (261); original Memoir, Correspondence, and Miscellanies, From the Papers of Thomas Jefferson
quote:Thomas Jefferson
1824 — letter to William Ludlow
Category: Bureaucracy
I think we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious.
Reference: Jefferson: Writings, Peterson ed., Library of America (1497)
quote:Thomas Jefferson
1788 — letter to E. Carrington
Category: Government
The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.
Reference: The Writings of Thomas Jefferson, Memorial Edition, Lipscomb and Bergh, eds., vol. 7 (37)
quote:Thomas Jefferson
1787 — letter to Abigail Adams
Category: Government
The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then. It is like a storm in the atmosphere.
Reference: Jefferson: Writings, Peterson ed., Library of America (889-890)
These are just a few random quotes from just ONE of our Founding Fathers. He wasn't just some guy who had cabin fever 'cause it had been a long winter and he hadn't ridden his motorcycle in several months.
These are words straight from the mouth of one of the fellas that created the rule book on how we're SUPPOSED to operate here in this country.
He, in my opinion, would not approve of Mr. Obama's style, nor would he likely just sit there with his mouth shut about it.
My patriotism is based on my belief in the wisdom of the Founders, the folks who actually had the guts to stand up to tyranny, bleed and die for their freedom, and THEN have the decency and class to create a brand-new system of government where they hoped NO ONE would ever have to fight that fight again.
And yet.............here we are.
One more, then I gotta get back to w*rk. Thanks for your thoughtful reply. -- FB
quote:Thomas Jefferson
1787 — letter to Edward Carrington
Category: Education
Cherish, therefore, the spirit of our people, and keep alive their attention. Do not be too severe upon their errors, but reclaim them by enlightening them. If once they become inattentive to the public affairs, you and I, and Congress, and Assemblies, Judges, and Governors, shall all become wolves.
Reference: The Learning of Liberty, Prangle, 111.
Amen, Mr. Jefferson, amen. |
Reindog
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 03:00 pm: |
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squids:
I am sure you and I would get along just fine in person but you are being just the teensy weensiest bit hypocritical when you judge political threads as being bad for Badweb yet you admit to dabbling in the religious Badweb threads. Please don't take this as a personal attack. It is solely an observation.
We Band of Buell Brothers (and Sisters) are all kick butt people who are the 99% fantastic. FB1 is correct that some Americans have fallen asleep, some have never been awake in the first place and some are fully awake to show what America actually is: self reliance, hard work, equal opportunity, freedom from the debilitation of fear, risk taking. In short, I just described Erik Buell. |
Guell
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 03:01 pm: |
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and this has now been highjacked from a discussion on about the quickboard to a political thread, lolz |
Spacecapsule1
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 03:06 pm: |
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....what about the free pizza? |
86129squids
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 03:13 pm: |
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LOL Guell...
Rein, I'm witcha- the key word is that I like to "dabble" in the religious threads. Most any serious discussions occur with my dear sister, a hospital chaplain by vocation and a recent PhD. of Ministry out of Asbury- which, interestingly is Methodist, but they allowed my Baptist sis in- and she almost won the
"Distinguished Thesis" award amongst her peers.
FB- despite my choice of silence, don't mistake that for a lack of heavy thought about the sausage making at the federal and state level- for heaven's sake, our TN general assembly can't find better things to do than vote for Manning to join the Titans... (sigh...) |
Fb1
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 03:23 pm: |
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FB- despite my choice of silence, don't mistake that for a lack of heavy thought about the sausage making at the federal and state level...
I've read a lot of your posts over the years; I know you care about the important stuff. I suspect you and I think a lot a like on a lot of this stuff. The point that I'm trying to make is that is is OK to talk politics. It's mighty important, especially now, and should be encouraged rather than discouraged.
The trick, as in any other "hot" topic, is to try to keep the conversations civil. The Founders encouraged scrutiny of their governance. They knew that this perpetual scrutiny would help keep corruption and tyranny at bay.
They HOPED forever, but they knew by studying history that the threat would always be there.
The Founders considered it a moral obligation for American citizens to be well-informed about their government, and to speak out against perceived wrongdoings. My patriotism is just that.
Take care,
FB |
Fb1
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 03:25 pm: |
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and this has now been highjacked from a discussion on about the quickboard to a political thread, lolz
Reminder: This thread started out by describing political discussions here on the QB as "shit." No offense meant, just trying to keep things honest.
FB |
Guell
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 03:30 pm: |
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Reminder: This thread started out by describing political discussions here on the QB as "shit." No offense meant, just trying to keep things honest.
FB
FB, just trying to inject a little humor into this thread.
I dont think the political threads are "shit". Hell i read most of them, and i side with most of what is posted, that is conservative leaning. I too dont like where the country is going, but i dont post in them because most of what i feel has been posted already, and i dont feel that me posting on an buell forum about politics will gain me anything.
I wouldnt mind seeing a political and religion forum though. Not the backfire board, i dont even know why we have that. |
86129squids
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 03:31 pm: |
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Fb- I get your point, and agree completely. NO censorship, except for gerbil jokes and such... 
My point, and I suspect Tom's, is just that the sheer volume and tone seem out of place on a Buell dedicated site.
Opinions. YMMV.
Be good, good buddy... |
Fb1
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 03:46 pm: |
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FB, just trying to inject a little humor into this thread.
Roger that, thanks. I totally missed the humor aspect. 
i dont feel that me posting on an buell forum about politics will gain me anything.
Interesting, I feel just the opposite. I could post on a political junkie forum, but the folks there would typically know way more than I do about what's going on.
Here, I post because I hope someone who may not otherwise have given a second thought to politics in general, and specifically the importance of the upcoming election, might read my words, or someone else's words, and go, "Hmmmmmmmmm!"
Now you've got a person who might, for possibly the very first time in their lives, actually study what's going on in Washington and formulate some concrete opinions.
Yes, of course, I think everyone should agree with my conservative ways. Never gonna happen. I'd settle for simply opening ONE set of eyes, whether they agree with what my eyes are seeing or not. If one of these threads can do that, well, that makes it all worthwhile.
The trick, as mentioned several times already, is to endeavor to respect opposing viewpoints. It's simple, really, but gets hard in a hurry on such a polarizing topic as politics.
Knowing that, however, doesn't make talking about politics "bad." Talking about politics is GOOD, and for anyone who doesn't want to participate, relief is just a mouse click away.
Thanks for your polite comeback, I appreciate it.
Best,
FB |
Fb1
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 03:52 pm: |
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My point, and I suspect Tom's, is just that the sheer volume and tone seem out of place on a Buell dedicated site.
I respect your point of view, and Tom's (Tnxbrider), but respectfully disagree, especially considering we've established there is no "rule" for the QB prohibiting political threads, and the fact that Blake has given his blessing to continue with such threads.
Opinions. YMMV.
Agree, all just opinions, including mine. I'd welcome opposing opinions, provided there's an honest effort at education, without resorting to insults. (No, this is not directed at you.)
Thanks amigo.
FB |
Moxnix
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 03:55 pm: |
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http://www.manoneileen.com/2011/09/07/why-we-shoul d-stay-away-from-news-an-article-by-rolf-dobelli/ |
Fahren
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 05:18 pm: |
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Fb1, your posts seem fine to me, except in their narrow-minded focus on "Obama The Bad."
Is Obama the first president to send troops without the Congress declaring war? Not by a long shot. The last time the US Congress declared war was for World War II.
Is he the first to over-use (abuse) Executive Signing Statements? Nope.
Did he enact the Patriot Act? Bad, really bad that he renewed it. but it wasn't his baby to start with.
Did he open secret prisons, outside of and unaccountable to the jurisdiction of the US legal system? Bad, really bad that he hasn't closed any (especially given his campaign promises), but again, not his baby to start with.
Is his the first administration to invoke the threat of internal and external (and seemingly perpetual, constant) threats to our well-being, as a way of generating fear and anxiety, to better shepherd the sheeple? Nope.
Did he come up with the cockamamy "Department of Homeland Security?" Who was it that started calling our country a "Homeland?" Not far from the German Heimland, or even "Fatherland.... But again, not Obama's invention. We are a nation, a republic. Not a Homeland. That term began being used right around 2002.
Fb1, have you read, "The End of America - Letter of Warning to a Young Patriot?" by Naomi Wolf? In it, she enumerates the steps by which pluralistic societies such as our own have been taken down the path toward tyranny. She is writing in 2007 in reaction against the Bush administration policies, but she continues to point her finger today at the continuation and yes, in many cases the intensification of these same policies by the left (Obama administration). The problem is not going away by voting for "ABO." |
Fahren
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 05:19 pm: |
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...and I hope that that is what your patriotic posts are trying to address: the bigger issue, not just "ABO." |
Reindog
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 05:31 pm: |
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Fahren,
Thanks for posting. Of course this is more than just about "ABO". Obama leaves office in January 2013 or 2017 and then he is relegated to a very bad memory. That said, Obama IS the current President and he is accelerating, not just continuing, the policy of Executive power overreach. We can do something about Obama. For now, we can do something about future presidents. We can do nothing about past presidents. But you already know this. Congress on both sides of the aisle are failing to do their Constitutionally mandated responsibilities. The American Republic is slipping away from us, one "well intentioned" czar at a time.
I am really glad you are posting because you seem to possess above average open mindedness even if I disagree with you. |
Fb1
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 05:47 pm: |
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Fahren, thanks for your thoughtful post, and I really don't think I can answer any more eloquently than Tom/Reindog just did.
I've gotten the "what about?" angle several times of late. There seems to be a common belief on the lib side that any protest about Mr. Obama's policies automatically indicates approval of past presidential policies, especially those of Mr. Bush.
Speaking only for myself, nothing could be further from the truth.
Like Tom said, we only have one president at the helm right now; there's nothing I can do about the abuses of the past.
There IS something I can do about the abuses of the present: Educate myself, try to educate others, and make sure I vote my conscious in November.
Mr. Obama has taken shredding of the Constitution to a whole new level, and that rich old document doesn't have much fight left in it, I'm afraid. It's up to us Patriots to pull our share. If we don't like what we're seeing, we're duty-bound to sound the alarm.
Thanks again for your post; how refreshing to actually debate this issue.
Best,
FB
PS: I'm curious: I gather you support Mr. Obama. Putting aside past presidential actions, can you elaborate for me why it is he has your support? Thanks in advance. |
Fb1
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 05:50 pm: |
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PS:
...and I hope that that is what your patriotic posts are trying to address: the bigger issue, not just "ABO."
ABO is the issue. I disagree with his policies, and I don't trust his motives.
If you're implying it's a racial thing, it is not. On more than one occasion I've listed names of several black men that I'd strongly consider voting for for President, including Herman Cain and Allen West.
I may be reading you wrong, but speaking for myself: This is NOT about race.
FB |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 06:12 pm: |
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ABO?
Yes... And no.
Here's an example of the problem I have right now. For 8 years +3 now people have universally complained about the spending the Bush administration did. People on BOTH sides agreed on that point. I NEVER... EVER heard anyone complain that he should have spent more.
Enter BO... He turns on the fire hose of spending. Predictably the conservatives complain about this. The progressives however are either silent or actually defend it saying he should be spending MORE. That hypocrisy is astounding and speaks volumes about where we are as a nation. BO is driving a wedge between various segments of our society like has never been done in my lifetime. He has spent money that will have to be paid back for by future generations like our nation has never seen before. EVER. That is nothing but stealing from those who have no say in the matter and will receive no benefit from this spending. If you have ANY understanding of morality you will see how immoral this is. I could go on policy by policy, but why? It's clear that no meaningful discussion will come from the other side. BO has made it clear that there will be no discussion from the conservative side. He blatantly distorts the facts to support his failed policies (see oil production as an example).
Is it time for ABO? You bet it is! From there perhaps we can begin to heal as a nation. Until then our wounds will grow and fester. |
Guell
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 06:12 pm: |
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Interesting, I feel just the opposite. I could post on a political junkie forum, but the folks there would typically know way more than I do about what's going on.
FB, same here. Thats why i mostly read and formulate my own opinions. Maybe i shall participate in them more frequently.
I guess i should say it doesnt gain me anything, more so a lot of the times most of what i think is already posted. I do like studying it and learning more.
(Message edited by guell on March 16, 2012) |
Union_man
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 07:19 pm: |
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I check in now and again...less and less. I think that this bickering is what happens when your brand of motorcycle is gone.
The BadWeb was a really great place to hang out...maybe when EBR starts selling bikes again the nonsense and rhetoric will be the exception rather than the rule.
I love motorcycles, and talking about them is my favorite subject. I bought a Triumph, and have found a MOTORCYCLE forum that talks about the motorcycles! The politics and religion threads are ignored.
The divisiveness that infects this board will only serve to destroy future events and get-togethers. If you must spew your bile do so elsewhere.
Lighten up...ride your motorcycles.
Will the last BedWeb member please shut off the lights.
(Message edited by union_man on March 16, 2012) |
Fb1
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 07:50 pm: |
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Bickering, nonsense, rhetoric, divisiveness, infects, spew and bile. Interesting selection of words.
Your profile says you've been here three and a half years. BWB just celebrated its 14th birthday. It is STILL a great place to hang out. It has evolved, to be sure.
Politics? Important stuff. Maybe not for you, but it is for me, and for others. Plus, the owner of this fine establishment encourages such conversations.
Lighten up and ride? Now there's some good advice.
Best,
FB |
Union_man
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 07:57 pm: |
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Interesting selection of words.
Thank you...I think. |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Friday, March 16, 2012 - 09:41 pm: |
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LOL @ this.
Tom nailed it: "predictable regularity".
Those who complain about the Quick Board's topics may freely direct their attention to the myriad other topics.
Carry on. |
86129squids
| | Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2012 - 12:27 am: |
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You're right (pardon the pun), Pwn...
"Tom nailed it: 'predictable regularity'."
I eat cereal almost daily to achieve just that...
I will admit I'm not nearly as deeply involved as most that oppose the current folks in charge (both sides), but once upon a time I was thoroughly loving my time as a sociology major- at the time I was aware that most peeps in my boat either went into LEO work, or more academia, or social work... I simply loved the subject, ala carte. English as a minor, leaning towards my natural (?) talents...
Given the time to research, inform myself, and posit viewpoints on politics at the level many enjoy here, I shall try. Otherwise, be at peace as best as youn's can, carry on... til the day we meet at the next Buell/EBR/HERO/ rally... |
Dwardo
| | Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2012 - 11:45 am: |
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Going from memory ... I think it was Pericles who said, "It doesn't matter if you take an interest in politics, because politics takes an interest in you". It doesn't matter who said it, really. It's true. |
Fahren
| | Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2012 - 01:55 pm: |
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Not true for motorcycling, though (just saying, to keep the balance on the thread) |
Oldog
| | Posted on Saturday, March 17, 2012 - 03:03 pm: |
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I enjoy the civil discussion here in these topics, Trying to have that discussion on a political board ... not happening from what I have seen, the more controversial the topic the worse the vitriol
any one know what the proper inflation of tuber rear tires is ( PM rims ) seriously |
Chauly
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2012 - 09:33 am: |
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"I think it was Pericles who said, "It doesn't matter if you take an interest in politics, because politics takes an interest in you". It doesn't matter who said it, really. It's true."
I thought I was being original when counseling my daughter:
"If you don't act on life, life will act on you."
I always figured that it was better to have a sail and a rudder, even if the direction wasn't exactly what you had in mind. (Anybody a small boat sailor?) |
Britchri10
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2012 - 10:57 am: |
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On my X1 it was 36-38 PSI (scorpion sync)
Chris C |
Fahren
| | Posted on Monday, March 19, 2012 - 11:03 am: |
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Will depend some on brand. |
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