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Garryb
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 10:47 am: |
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Got to go to work now, but the major destruction of constitutional rights happened under the Bush administration with things like: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guantanamo_Bay_detent ion_camp http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NSA_warrantless_surve illance_controversy The secret prisons in foreign countries, with American citizens being held etc Oh I forgot, Obama is taking away our guns, I guess he just hasn't got to wis yet Please list the major rights we have lost so we are clear. |
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Reindog
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 10:49 am: |
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Some of you are not old enough to have actually witnessed usurpation of power by the Executive Branch. President Nixon almost got away with trampling the Constitution but a few brave people stood up and exposed him. Young spuds can only look backwards through an historical lens, but living through it day to day provides a different perspective. President Nixon had fanatical supporters who eventually caved when denial of the truth was no longer possible. President Obama has embarked on a similar trajectory in not upholding his Constitutional oath. |
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Fb1
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 10:52 am: |
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Got to go to work now, but the major destruction of constitutional rights happened under the Bush administration with things like: Classic! Garry, there isn't squat anyone can do about what past presidents did. We CAN do something about now, however. So this is the basis of your support for Mr. Obama? |
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Fb1
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 10:59 am: |
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quote:On Real Respect for the Constitution I am pleased that the Constitution has received a lot of attention in recent weeks, thanks to the tea party movement. The 112th Congress kicked off with a reading of the Constitution on the floor of the House. It goes without saying that Members of Congress should have read the Constitution many times, and should continue to study it. Citing the particular clause of the Constitution that authorizes newly introduced legislation is a reasonable suggestion, yet in reality it will do little to restrain unconstitutional growth of the federal government. We have had such rules in the past and no benefit came of it. The laws that are passed reflect the preferences and personal agendas of those in charge. For too long those agendas have expanded government at the expense of personal liberty, regardless of which political party was in charge. This expansion of government clearly violated the Constitution, yet it was always argued that this or that program somehow conformed to that “living” document. By misinterpreting the general welfare clause, the interstate commerce clause, and the “necessary and proper” clause, Congress has justified every conceivable expansion of the federal government. Congress also has misinterpreted the 14th Amendment and legislated as though it had repealed the 10th Amendment. Sadly, Congress has also systematically abdicated its prerogatives and responsibilities to the executive branch over many decades. Too many people, in and out of Congress, grew up being taught that the Constitution was a “modern living document.” Though the authors allowed for flexibility through the amendment process, this process has been ignored for the sake of speed and convenience. As a result, the Constitution now has little actual meaning. Our Constitution should be viewed as law, and Members of Congress should be expected to follow, respect, understand, and uphold the law. But a document is just a piece of paper if those who represent us and promise to obey it ignore it instead. Celebrating the Constitution without this understanding will do nothing to restore the greatness of America. Simply praising the document distracts from the need for Members to resist special interests, political self-interests, emergency needs in times of crisis, fear-based economic myths, and the persistent temptation to seek security over liberty while ignoring personal responsibility and self-reliance. I wonder: will this welcomed renewed interest in the Constitution lead to a healthy reassessment of all of our policies? Will there be no more wars without an actual congressional declaration? Will the Federal Reserve Act be repealed? Will only gold and silver be deemed legal tender? Will we end all unconstitutional federal departments, including the Department of Energy, Education, Agriculture, Commerce, Health and Human Services, Homeland Security, and Labor? Will the Patriot Act be repealed and all warrantless searches stopped? Will the TSA be abolished? Will the IRS’s unconstitutional collection powers end? Will executive and judicial quasi-legislative powers end? Will we end the federal war on drugs? Will we end the federal government’s involvement in medical care? Will we end all of the federal government’s illusionary insurance programs? Will we ban secret prisons, trials without due process, and assassinations? Will we end our foreign policy of invasion and occupation? For America to once again become the standard for a free society, our love of liberty and desire for peace must far surpass any public display of fidelity to the Constitution. We must first look to strong moral character, respect for the rule of law, and an understanding of the proper role of government in a free society. - Congressman Ron Paul
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Blake
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 11:03 am: |
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Incompetent or intentionally destructive? See Cloward-Piven and Alinsky. The man's political career was kicked-off in the home of William Ayers and Bernardine Dohrn. I don't think he's incompetent. |
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Blake
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 11:16 am: |
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I believe he meant exactly what he said to his Progressive Democrat supporters. "We are five days away from fundamentally transforming the United States of America." |
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Oldog
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 11:23 am: |
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Wow Just Wow .. It is truly unbelievable to read ( and listen to ) the folks that support Obama, I just cant believe that they still dont get it, I guess they're "still 'spectin they cheks......" Court Thanks for sharing the comments about E.Holder. No surprises I guess D.Issa of CA has his work cut out for him.... Personal accountability means nothing in DC with some of these clowns, I have seen it in business but in government it is truly frightening We have become a laughing Stock when Probda is printing stories about Obama Comming from kenya My 0.02$ after his term I hope some money is spent finding out the truth and IF there is wrong doing Severe punishment is handed down for the perps.. |
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Reindog
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 11:27 am: |
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Badweb is a microcosm of our larger society. In thread after thread, year after year, the overwhelming contributions by Conservative members are logical, based on facts with supporting evidence, and an ability to rebut counter arguments. Not true for the Left leaning members where most contributions are based solely on emotion, denial, refusal to rebuttal, and arguing that past bad behavior is an excuse for present bad behavior. It gets old as well as I. Sigh. |
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Fb1
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 11:39 am: |
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Left leaning members where most contributions are based solely on emotion, denial, refusal to rebuttal, and arguing that past bad behavior is an excuse for present bad behavior. Bingo, bingo, bingo and bingo. Heavy sigh. Has our country truly come to this? ![: (](http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/clipart/sad.gif) |
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Moxnix
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 11:47 am: |
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Cloward-Piven and Alinsky offered strategies. The people associated with our current administration, from soup to nuts, are opportunists manipulating the system to an end they want, against the will of anyone with a rudimentary familiarity with history. We're being run like a third world dictatorship by a man whose personal history is relatively unknown. He was the candidate foisted on the public by mean-spirited ideologs groomed by those strategists noted above, and their ilk. Our American culture has drastically changed in the last five decades. Obama was not exposed to the values of America, only the values of anti-Americanism. He's been the perfect willing candidate for manipulation to where he is and what he is doing. 1000 flies around a turd can't be wrong. Among Mohammedans, "Lord of the locusts" is a title of God. "With the burning south winds of Syria there come from the interior of Arabia and from the most southern parts of Persia clouds of locusts, whose ravages to these countries are as grievous and nearly as sudden as those of the heaviest hail in Europe. We witnessed them twice. It is difficult to express the effect produced on us by the sight of the whole atmosphere filled on all sides and to a great height by an innumerable quantity of these insects, whose flight was slow and uniform, and whose noise resembled that of rain: the sky was darkened, and the light of the sun considerably weakened. In a moment the terraces of the houses, the streets, and all the fields were covered by these insects, and in two days they had nearly devoured all the leaves of the plants. Happily they lived but a short time, and seemed to have migrated only to reproduce themselves and die; in fact, nearly all those we saw the next day had paired, and the day following the fields were covered with their dead bodies." (Voyage dans l'Empire Othoman, M. Olivier) If our president was trained in Marxism after he became a Muslim, then he has two philosophies inside him battling for his political soul. Whichever wins, America loses. |
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Reindog
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 12:38 pm: |
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Anyhow, thank you Ferris for providing respectful calls for honest, open debate. Like Fatty, Sifo, Blake, and others, you are discovering that the Left does not have an ideological leg to stand on. Unfortunately, they do have a rising number of uneducated, misinformed, selfish masses who are unable to see both sides of an argument and are in denial coupled with no knowledge of history. Bottom line: the debt and the accelerating growth of the federal bureaucracy is killing us. Some argue that things are getting better. September 11, 2001 started out as a beautiful, bright sun shiny day. Happy days were here again on October 28, 1929. We as a people are in trouble. |
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Fb1
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 12:50 pm: |
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you are discovering Tom, I'm not finally "discovering," I'm just finally pissed off enough to stick my neck out here on the board and vent my spleen. If more people would speak out, more of the "non-believers" would start to listen. In the meantime, I'm encouraged to see the "I" word now being used by some courageous, patriotic politicians. We rail about "the government," and much our verbal wrath is warranted, but we DO have friends in the government, who see the threat crystal clear. It is, literally, right before their eyes. We The People need to continue to make our voices heard, and we need to recognize and support the folks in government that are risking their reputations and their careers on our behalf. Mox, great post. FB PS to Reindog: I forgot to say thanks. (Message edited by fb1 on March 09, 2012) |
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Court
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 12:51 pm: |
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quote:The auto industry with Obamas help, is now light years ahead of where it was at the end of the 8 year Bush debacle.
That's a patently inaccurate statement. President Obama has done what may well be irrevocable damage to the American automobile and manufacturing industry. Fortunately Ford stayed well clear of the government teet. It's s ahame when you try to convince a kid he's tall by using a modified yard stick. What Obama essentially did was try to break the natural "action & consequence" sequence and "lift" the manufactures. When someone tries to supplant hard work, keen business sense and determination with free hand outs and adjusting the rules to match where the players are on the field, every one looses. The American auto industry, save Ford, is the laughing stock of manufacturing. I hope GM repays the loan, that the taxpayers get out of private industry and that they make a full recovery. If not, GM will be following once great companies, like Boeing, as they seek overseas venues . . not by choice, but by being driven there. Chinese are drilling in U.S. waters in the Gulf, off the coast of Florida . . while it's illegal for American companies to even file for a permit. In addition, as if the damage done weren't enough, Obama is batting 1000% in his poor choices of "alternative energy" industries as he attempts to herd contracts to donors. Bother anyone else that something like 80% of stimulus dollars went to major fund raisers? The good news is, nearly all of them are out or going out of business. The shame is that Obama, breaking U.S. law and Federal Contract Law, put the tax payers, rather than the investors, at risk. You got screwed by the idiot. |
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Jb2
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 12:51 pm: |
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Facts, reasoning, intellectual debate, & anything you can toss into the conservative view point is lost on almost anyone leaning left. Time and time again it is proven that all you have to do is follow the dollars. Everyone on the left has a vested interest in their vote and it has nothing to do with freedom or the Constitution. It has everything to do with an entitlement or hopes and promises of one. They throw snipes from the sidelines, make snarky comments and then disappear. I have no personal wish to vet them but the truth is they are on the government dole or wish to be. Period. I've never met a Democrat that wasn't receiving a free ride of some sorts or voting for one. Sad, just sad. |
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Moxnix
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 01:08 pm: |
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“One should judge a man mainly from his depravities. Virtues can be faked. Depravities are real.” ~Klaus Kinski This includes, in my book, political, social and cultural depravities. |
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Garryb
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 01:48 pm: |
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GM is the number one car manufacturer in the world! The American Car industry is booming, which is simply amazing considering the state of the economy when Bush finished with it. It sure sounds like there are people on this forum who have a weird personal vendetta with Obama. Our rights are sure being trampled in Wisconsin, but we are aggressively fighting for our rights here. |
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Blake
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 01:59 pm: |
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JB2, >>> I've never met a Democrat that wasn't receiving a free ride of some sorts or voting for one. I've met plenty, close relatives included. What's really frustrating is that on issues and policy we agree nearly lock-step! They are just plain brainwashed, and refuse to watch or read any media that regularly offers critical views. They hate Sarah Palin and go around parroting propaganda like "Bush lied us into war." and are often mostly concerned about "corporate greed"; it's mostly all emotion and nonsense. Then there are some who apparently just feel guilty about their success. One good friend going way back to college days is a major force in microprocessors from Motorola to Texas Instruments. He travels the world, has a wife and two wonderful children, speaks five languages fluently, is a genius way up there, has a strong work ethic, but he's an atheist Progressive Democrat who seems to mostly find meaning in life through mere entertainment (books, movies, facebook) and pleasure (eating fancy food). It's clear to me that at least some of these folks are desperately searching for meaning in their lives, and feel they have found it by supporting efforts to get govt to care for everyone. Others are victims of punitive liberalism. They've bought into the lie that because of past bad policy, America is a bad country. Others are rubes of the marxist propaganda that has taken hold and decimated the integrity of our nation. I know, because I was once such a rube myself. Then I learned the other side of the story. That's all it takes, learning truth, or at least both sides to the story. Vietnam for example. |
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Blake
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 02:01 pm: |
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>>> GM is the number one car manufacturer in the world! By what measure? Number one biggest bankrupcy and bailout on the planet, ever? Okay, you're right on that. >>> Our rights are sure being trampled in Wisconsin, but we are aggressively fighting for our rights here. What "rights are sure being trampled in Wisconsin"? The right for public employees to pay nothing towards their own health insurance and retirement? |
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Blake
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 02:04 pm: |
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>>> It sure sounds like there are people on this forum who have a weird personal vendetta with Obama. It's not personal at all, nor is it a vendetta. It's called opposition to his policies and his ideology in general. Most of us aren't too keen on so-called leaders who repeatedly break their word. It's not perceived as a problem by Progressives, since that is their modus operandi of choice. See Alinsky. |
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Blake
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 02:08 pm: |
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Back on topic. That Pravda article was interesting. I did find the court case that was scrubbed from that one web site. In it is noted the following (emphasis mine):
quote:The Constitution does not, in words, say who shall be natural-born citizens. Resort must be had elsewhere to ascertain that. At common-law, with the nomenclature of which the framers of the Constitution were familiar, it was never doubted that all children born in a country of parents who were its citizens became themselves, upon their birth, citizens also. These were natives, or natural-born citizens, as distinguished from aliens or foreigners.
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Sifo
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 02:09 pm: |
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I'd like to hear from anyone who voted for BO and still supports him. What that issues that he campaigned on made you like him 4 years ago? How do you feel he has performed in those areas? I would like to think it goes deeper than "Hope & Change". Anyone? |
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Garryb
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 02:11 pm: |
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See Karl Rove His impact on conservatives is wild Bye for now, I just don't feel appreciated. 60s in Madison next week. Time to break out the Buell. I love my bike! |
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Blake
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 02:11 pm: |
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The above taken from 88 U.S. 162 Minor v. Happersett Argued: February 9, 1875 --- Decided: March 29, 1875 http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/US SC_CR_0088_0162_ZO.html |
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Fb1
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 02:22 pm: |
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quote:They throw snipes from the sidelines, make snarky comments and then disappear.
quote:Bye for now, I just don't feel appreciated.
'Nuff said. |
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Moxnix
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 02:33 pm: |
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GarryB, So long and watch out for all the locusts. |
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Reindog
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 02:35 pm: |
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quote:Bye for now, I just don't feel appreciated.
My goodness, another hit and run attack by a you know what. quod erat demonstrandum. PS: What "rights" are under attack in Wisconsin? Your health care? Mine changes every single year and I pay more. That is reality. Get a dose. Your pension? I have none. Could you at least consider that the Taxpayers of Wisconsin are under attack? Pretty please with sugar on top? You my friend, have the right to change jobs if you despise your current employer. It is EXACTLY that simple. |
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Reindog
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 02:41 pm: |
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quote:I'd like to hear from anyone who voted for BO and still supports him. What that issues that he campaigned on made you like him 4 years ago? How do you feel he has performed in those areas? I would like to think it goes deeper than "Hope & Change". Anyone?
Me too. I promise to be respectful if someone steps up to answer Sifo's question in an honest way. I truly am unable to comprehend why anyone would support Obama and I am more then willing to respectfully listen to honest debate. Just keep the Bush bashing out because that just puts oil in the water. Anyone??????????????????? |
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Reindog
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 02:43 pm: |
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The converse would be also educational. Is there anyone who voted for Obama in 2008 who won't vote for him in 2012 and why? |
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Chauly
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 02:54 pm: |
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Have pity for GarryB, snarkiness is hard work! |
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Drkside79
| Posted on Friday, March 09, 2012 - 03:01 pm: |
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Damn i tried answering that. Read my words knew the responses i would get and deleted it. Sorry not in the mood today..... However I voted for him and I most likely will again. I will stick with he is the lesser of two evils for now. |
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