| Author | Message | ||
     Froggy |
I'm still in.  Mike, they will be producing the Volt for the next few years, the second generation of it has been in development since the first Volt rolled off the line. | ||
| Mikef5000 |
Mike, they will be producing the Volt for the next few years, the second generation of it has been in development since the first Volt rolled off the line. And why wouldn't they, with the tax payers being force to foot the bill... hell, why not make more! With Toyota putting the final touches on a sub-$20k hybrid, why would any sane person pay $40k for a Volt? Dang, I told myself I'd stay out of this thread, as it seems to be a "Froggy versus the world" type of thing. I'm off to work in the garage! | ||
| Froggy |
You mean those same tax payers that were forced to foot the bill when the Prius was introduced? Also, you should check into how much the Japanese government financially supported Toyota to develop the Prius. | ||
| Sifo |
Sounds like the industry insiders aren't so sold... http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.460043 c1b742ef8b12033b19a574267a.c1&show_article=1 | ||
| Rick_a |
The title, while a bit alarmist, drew me here.
That's just funny, and fairly accurate.
I believe this is very true as well. That is all. Please continue with your regular banter. | ||
| Sifo |
Just got this in an email... 
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| Froggy |
Funny, 2011 sales figures are in, it outsold most other hybrid and EV vehicles in December. In fact it was the best selling EV in December. If mixing in the hybrids, the Volt placed 5th in December behind the Prius, Lexus ct200h, Sonata, and Camry. The Volt did better than Lexux 450H, Ford Escape, Buick Lacrosse, Ford Fusion, Honda Insight, Honda Civic, Honda CRZ, Toyota Highlander, Lincoln MKZ, and a dozen other hybrids and EVs. Hell it even beat out most of the clean diesel cars too. The Volt did fall shy of its 2011 target, but it did have multiple issues with suppliers preventing full scale production for the first half of the year. http://www.hybridcars.com/news/december-2011-dashb oard-sales-still-climbing-35093.html
Ummm what? There isn't even any recalls listed on the recalls.gov website. There will be a customer satisfaction program in February to protect the battery cooling system better, but even that doesn't appear to be a full blown recall.
Umm what? If you want to make a car joke, tell one about how one man destroyed the reputation of the Ford Bronco. (Message edited by froggy on January 13, 2012) | ||
| Strokizator |
If you want to make a car joke, tell one about how one man destroyed the reputation of the Ford Bronco. Are you talking about OJ? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
or the chump that killed the Corvair I did have a great time in my friends Monza | ||
| Blake |
Failure in progress... DETROIT -- Some Chevrolet dealers are turning down Volts that General Motors wants to ship to them, a potential stumbling block as GM looks to accelerate sales of the plug-in hybrid. | ||
| Blake |
Paid for by money confiscated from productive Americans and borrowed from the Communist Chinese. | ||
| Sifo |
Volt sales drop to 603 for January. Leaf sales drop to 676. Seems the market isn't jumping on this as some predicted. Froggy better get out of his bet if he's still allowed. http://green.autoblog.com/2012/02/01/chevy-volt-sa les-drop-to-603-nissan-moves-676-leafs-in-january/ | ||
| Mikef5000 |
 Aaaaand rebuttal in 3.... 2..... 1........ | ||
| Froggy |
It seems as if GM has done too little and too late. GM has done a poor job with damage control regarding the battery fire and it is hurting the sales. Sales haven't slowed in my area, checking dealer inventory shows that my local dealers are still getting and selling units, so they seem to be for the most part unaffected. There seems to be a good number of fully loaded models available, but no base models. On GM-Volt.com you can see many still waiting months for vehicles they have ordered, possibly base models. | ||
| Sifo |
Say anything you want, they only sold 603 in January. | ||
| Froggy |
Yea, and January sales are up 88%. | ||
| Sifo |
Over last January, sure. Wasn't that when the excuse was they just couldn't get them built. They are certainly available now. Only sold 603 though. | ||
| Kenm123t |
No body wants a hybrid with 40 year old performance the hybrids GM and AMC built in 1972 have exactly the same performance. Till you have on board power generation that has as many Therms per lb of liquid fuel the electric is a limited use vehicle. Wind mills solar and electric cars a leap to old tech. Once we have 250lb nuke plants in the car electric cars are viable | ||
| Hootowl |
Don't sweat it. The government will buy all the unsold ones as fleet vehicles, and then GM will pay us back the money we lent them to build the cars from the money we gave them to buy the cars. Problem solved. | ||
| Froggy |
The availability ain't that great, since there are many still waiting for the ones they ordered to be built. If you want a black one with navigation and the reverse camera, I can find you quite a few near me. | ||
| Sifo |
No doubt they aren't available everywhere. Some dealers aren't accepting them. Odd they would refuse to carry a car in such hot demand. http://www.chevroletpedia.org/2012/01/24/chevrolet -dealers-not-keen-on-more-volt-orders/ | ||
| Froggy |
Do you have the specs on these? I've never seen them published, as they were only prototypes. I highly doubt that they have better performance like you state.
What is this magical power source? I don't think people will be fond of mini nuclear reactors under the hood.
Yea, or we can continue to improve battery and charging tech to the point that the only reason someone would have a gas car is because they live in a cave. | ||
| Froggy |
Yea, it reminds me an awful lot of another motor company that had some dealers that had no problems selling every last item they got, then others stuffed them in the corner where they would rot for years unsold. At least GM isn't stuffing the Volt down the dealers throats to those that won't/can't sell them. | ||
| Court |
Interesting review of the Volt on tv a bit ago. Eric Boling had been a critic . . so GM called him, met with him and agreed to give him one for a week. He told them he'd keep an open mind. The car ran out of electricity 2 days in a row in the Lincoln Tunnel. It goes 25 miles (they advertise 40) on a full charge. I don't much care about the Volt. My thought are; It's not ready, anywhere NEAR ready, for prime time. We got snowed putting up $24,000 per car in subsidies. I put the Volt in the same category at Obama . . . a non-performer that looked good in advertising. | ||
| Froggy |
Court, thank you for mentioning that. I just went and looked at the video. It is a shame to me that instead of giving the car an actual review he just mentions how it engaged the gas mode earlier than he expected. It goes 25 miles on an electric charge on his route with him driving, it goes 35 miles on a full charge on the EPA route. There are Volt owners who have well exceeded the 40 miles. Just like a gasoline car, your mileage will vary. GM actually advertises that it will typically travel between 25 and 50 miles on the charge alone, so while his range was low it isn't mis-advertised like you imply. I do love how Fox gave the typical BS bailout crap, despite the car being in development long before the bailouts or even Obama being in office. Court, got a source on this $24k? A quick search didn't turn up nothing, I'm curious what incorrect math they used. | ||
| Aesquire |
Total subsidies per car may end up closer to $78k. But that is an unfair number, including R&D that will reap dividends elsewhere. I've seen the $24k number too. Jay Leno has an Electric car. A couple. Loves his 1908. Goes farther on a charge than a Leaf, and the Iron acid battery is rebuildable. His Chevy from the 2000's ( the one they took back and destroyed ) got 5 more miles. 100 years. 5 more miles. Bear in mind that that 1908 car has no AC, or anti lock brakes. That Chevette your buddy had that he coaxed 40+ mpg out of wouldn't pass safety specs today, at all. Or pollution specs. I like the tech that's gone into the Volt, but not the politics and religion that make it far less a car than it could be at far more money than it may be worth. ( if people will pay for a Fisker, Some would find a Volt worth it, and that's just fair. ) I don't know how good sales would be if you had to pay what the Volt costs Chevy. (Message edited by aesquire on February 02, 2012) | ||
| Kenm123t |
Froggy the net energy cost to build those exotic metals batteries out weighs the energy savings. Most of those come from China To be useful the a electric car meeds at least a 550 mile range recharge in 5 min or less Its time to stop the waste in alt energy Cars and truck can be run on CNG easily and are actualy safer than gas and diesel to store and handle it doesnt degrade in long term storage. Ford already sells more cng/gas vehicles than the industry sells hybrids or electrics. | ||
| Court |
>>>GM actually advertises that it will typically travel between 25 and 50 miles on the charge alone, so while his range was low it isn't mis-advertised like you imply. Correct you are . . . the "does it go 25 miles or 50 mile" wasn't clear, The problem is . . that if it goes 100 miles, costs $45,000 There are thousands of sources . . search "Chevrolet Volt Government Subsidies" and you'll get a couple million hits. It requires some sifting as passions run high. Don't be concerned that most of them indicate that the government spent $250,000 per Volt. They later admitted they screwed the math up and moved a decimal place. Chevrolet Volt sales suck at $42,385 (price off the Chevrolet website). Be mindful that price would double without the feds meddling. $35,220 will buy me a brand spanking new Mercedes-Benz C250 Luxury Sedan that will get me something around 25 MPH. I just paid $28K for a 2012 Focus Titanium that has the same times Porshce uses on the Cayman, handles on par with the best cars in the world and, on the 4 touch screens . . . often shows me fun things like 44.4MPG. My truck got filled 3 times a week. I don't know what the mileage was since the pump shuts off at $100. I'm fueling the 2012 a couple times a week, typically for $28-$32. We are going to see electric vehicles, Chevrolet simply got caught in that silly "green jobs" crap The White House was spewing. Turns out, hindsight being clearer, that 80% of the folks who got that money were Obama "bundlers". The electric technology is likely 5 years out and the next technology behind it 9 years out. By the way . . . I'm loving the whole electric thing . . . folks are plugging in their iPad, Pod, Phones and Airbooks at a rate that has demand for electric transmission off the charts. I was going to retire (again) this year but the offers that are coming in are too damn good to pass up. Started a PRIVATE $600M project this week that's 6 minutes from my house. No one would like to see electric cars more than me, | ||
| Court |
By the way . . . you saw, I'm sure, that General Motors just gave a $3,000,000,000 advertising contract to Aegis. Yep . . . moments after the Big O gave that drivel in the State of the Disaster speech . . . his pals are GM stuffed one up his arse. The Chinese are building a $7,000,000,000 bridge in California with Stimulus funds and $3,000,000,000 is headed to the UK/France. We deserve , , as LEAST . . better idiots. | ||
| Court |
All the articles still say $250,000 so you may be better off to search $250,000 Volt subsidies. But I'm not terribly confident in that number.
They are still wrangling about the fact that the feds suppressed the news of the recall for so long . . . . http://www.autoguide.com/auto-news/2011/12/chevrol et-volt-battery-issues-growing-safety-findings-may -have-been-suppressed.html http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/12/ethics-gr oup-says-government-suppressed-chevrolet-volt-evid ence/ The good news is that they sewed up the "Production Flop of the Year" award for 2011.
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