| Author |
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Blake
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 02:11 pm: | 
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I'd like to hear the anti-gun lobby argue against the use of deadly force in this case.
Baby or no baby, someone maliciously breaking into your home warrants the use of deadly force. I don't understand the trauma some imagine must affect the shooter due to the justified killing. I don't see it. I know my wife would not be bothered in the least is she was in the same situation. We've discussed it, run drills, she is prepared.
Non Castle Doctine states? Retreat inside your own home? I don't think so. One needs to position oneself in the absolute best defensive position with respect to the point of forced entry. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 02:30 pm: |
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I would be traumatized. Police officers routinely undergo counseling to recover from the trauma of shooting someone in the line of duty. Soldiers too. Taking a life, however justified, is no small thing. At least to me it isn't.
I can't say how I'd react in such a situation, as I've never been put in that position by someone with no regard for anyone but himself. I have a significant internal barrier to doing violence. I've never even struck anyone in anger. I'd like to think I would pull the trigger without hesitation. But realistically, I think I might hesitate, probably to my detriment. |
Boltrider
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 02:44 pm: |
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Assume the worst. Those intruders were there to rape, rob, and murder her. The gun control folks have nowhere to go with this one.
How somebody handles the aftermath is a variable. Some get over it quickly, others not so much. |
Syonyk
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 03:06 pm: |
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I'd like to hear the anti-gun lobby argue against the use of deadly force in this case.
But he was such a nice boy! He even sang in his church choir! If it weren't for the Evil Woman and her Gun (that should be banned), he would be alive now! 
Also, 21 minutes is a solid argument against "Just call the police & barricade yourself, they'll leave." This was clear home invasion, they knew she was there, and they were not just there to rob & go.
The only downside is that she only got one of the scumbags.
I have a significant internal barrier to doing violence. I've never even struck anyone in anger. I'd like to think I would pull the trigger without hesitation. But realistically, I think I might hesitate, probably to my detriment.
That's something you need to work out with yourself. I'm quite non-violent as well, and I really don't think I could hit someone in anger.
That said, I have *zero* problem with shooting to stop the threat if someone else has started something and left me no other reasonable options. |
Ulyranger
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 03:12 pm: |
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Just from her presence from the clips I've viewed, interviews and 911 tapes, I'm guessing this young lass will OK in OK. Don't mess with Mama......
21 mins from LEO arrival in the country is not extraordinary, nor an hour or more. Country folk most generally know how to take care of themselves regardless of how we're all being trained these days to depend on others....
(Message edited by ulyranger on January 06, 2012) |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 03:17 pm: |
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"That said, I have *zero* problem with shooting to stop the threat if someone else has started something and left me no other reasonable options."
Yeah, me either. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't hesitate in the split second that you normally have to make such a decision. Intellectually, I know it is the right thing to do, and that I shouldn't feel any remorse. But I know myself well enough to know that I would. As you say, it's something I'll have to work out. Hopefully, I will never have to. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 04:53 pm: |
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I don't understand the trauma some imagine must affect the shooter due to the justified killing. I don't see it. I know my wife would not be bothered in the least is she was in the same situation. We've discussed it, run drills, she is prepared.
Just being the victim of a violent break-in can be very traumatic. Having to take the life of the bad guy will only add to this. If you think otherwise you are kidding yourself (unless you are a true psychopath, which I don't believe to be true in your case). |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 05:02 pm: |
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"That said, I have *zero* problem with shooting to stop the threat if someone else has started something and left me no other reasonable options."
Yeah, me either. But that doesn't mean I wouldn't hesitate in the split second that you normally have to make such a decision. Intellectually, I know it is the right thing to do, and that I shouldn't feel any remorse. But I know myself well enough to know that I would. As you say, it's something I'll have to work out. Hopefully, I will never have to.
First time I ever played paintball I had serious hesitation in pulling the trigger while aiming at a fellow human being. It just goes against all the training I've had with guns, even though I was well aware that paintball is just a game. It was a rather interesting experience. I found shooting a deer with a real rifle far less conflicting. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 05:50 pm: |
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Non Castle Doctine states? Retreat inside your own home? I don't think so.
As I understand it, you're expected to retreat OUTSIDE your home if need be. It's absolutely unthinkable to me.
I've done my research about this and I've come to conclusion that it would be a messy legal battle, but I would a-ok if someone broke into my house, I announced that I was there, armed and prepared to defend myself, they didn't leave and I shot them. If they hear me cycle the action on my Mossy 500 and they decide to stick around, I have reason to believe that they are there to harm me or mine. Retreat outside my home is not terribly safe given the layout and I wouldn't consider it an option.
I recall a state that passed a law which enacted castle doctrine for ANY place one has a reasonable expectation of safety - your home, your car, your office, the mall, a baseball game, etc. Not sure if it stuck, though. |
Tbolt_pilot
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 06:05 pm: |
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"First time I ever played paintball I had serious hesitation in pulling the trigger while aiming at a fellow human being."
I had talked about a similar thing with my wife recently. I don't think I'd have any problem shooting someone if put in the situation. My instincts and reactions are generally very strong in an emergency and I trust them. I'm military, but in a non-combat (IT security) career field. I own a few guns, but don't carry. Here's my thing... I did Revolutionary War re-enacting since I was about 10 and from about 14 I had drawn down on a human being with a gun and pulled the trigger. Sure, my conscious KNOWS it's a 'blank' and just makes noise, but I'm still drawing a bead on another human. I know it conditioned me to a point. I was 'shooting to kill' a person, even if it was simulated. I think it's as close as you can get to the real thing, a step up from paintball, but similar sensation.
I hope I never have to find out if I'd do it, but I think I would in a situation like this girl was put in.
Good for her! May GOD Bless her and guide her. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 06:45 pm: |
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Tbolt, I agree 100% on getting conditioned to perform the action of shooting a person when necessary. That was kind of part of the point I was making, though didn't really spell it out. Any conditioning ranging from what the Army puts infantry through to simply shooting paper silhouette targets at the range is far better than zero conditioning. I would hope that my hesitation would be less if ever needed after my paintball experience. I also hope I never have to put that to the test.
As far as retreating to safety, there's no way I would leave the house for safety except in extraordinary circumstances (I almost never say never). Retreating to a safer room and locking the door is a reasonable course of action. Preferably a room where you can call 911 on a land line. Yell a warning, take cover and be ready to take a shot if the door opens. It's good to have a plan and know what's behind the door you are shooting through in case of a miss. Are you shooting towards another room in your house that may be occupied? A neighbors house? I have a couple of preferable options where I would retreat to in my house that have pretty save lines of fire. Think about it BEFORE someone breaks in! Let the police show up and clear all the rooms in the house. They are probably better trained for that than the average civilian and will have backup. At least that's my plan that I hope to never have to use.
I have been in a situation where I wished I had a weapon, desperately! Sheriff was over an hour away. That was the longest hour of my life dealing with an extremely drunk redneck threatening my life and my wife's. Don't ever believe that you have any control over if it will happen to you. You don't. |
Tbolt_pilot
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 07:04 pm: |
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Agreed Sifo. And I didn't realize my self-conditioning until years later.
There are several degrees of conditioning I guess. The paper target would be the least effective for a lot of people I'd think. Seeing a real, moving person down the barrel looking back at you and then making him disappear in fire and smoke is pretty real. The first few paintballs hitting you is an awakening experience too I know. Especially in the neck, hand, ear, etc.. haha
Retreat? Only to get a more clear shot or put myself out of range or behind cover. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 07:19 pm: |
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Retreat? Only to get a more clear shot or put myself out of range or behind cover.
Planned retreats in my home would attempt to achieve both of those objectives. It also gives you very good legal coverage. Of course every situation is unique and seldom plays out exactly according to plan...  |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Friday, January 06, 2012 - 11:03 pm: |
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Out on the street? retreat makes sense. Sometimes. As does giving up simple material goods. What good does money do a corpse?
But. ( and there is always a But )
If someone breaks into a house with people in it, you HAVE to assume that the desired results are not limited to simple robbery. You are dealing with someone so far outside the norms that hoping for normal behavior is, simply, insane.
There are books, videos, and many classes in how to defend the castle. A lot of good ( and bad ) advice is available.
In the above incident, it really is simple. After the bad guys showed up and began the assault, the woman could either feel bad she killed a goblin, or she could feel bad she was raped and her baby murdered. ( if she was still alive to feel anything at all. )
The choice she made was the right one by any rational standard. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2012 - 07:23 am: |
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She gave a few more interviews and I really admire her the more I hear her speak.
The one thing that comes through in all of this is her statement that the "law" was not part of her decision process. She'd do the same regardless of the LEGAL outcome. She was a mother and she was protecting her child.
I do not think she'll be hauled into court BUT I THINK there is a fund being established. You realize that she had to sell off a LOT of her husband's firearms and other valuables in order to have the funeral and memorial services.
I know it's a cliche but it is "Better to be judged by 12 than carried by 6." |
Mr_grumpy
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2012 - 07:48 am: |
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He who fights & runs away...
Lives to run away again. 
Oh alright I'll give you the original too.
He who fights & runs away, lives to fight another day.
One of the precepts of guerilla warfare. |
Kenm123t
| | Posted on Saturday, January 07, 2012 - 08:55 am: |
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you cant see whats coming when your running away and if you leave survivors they have a tendency to follow you home!
When you get them on the run keep them on the run. Sniping etc is different but once up and close you have to finish what you started. |
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