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Xl1200r
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 12:56 pm: | 
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I would have thought that clipping is avoided by setting correct levels and compression brings up the lows, tames the highs and allows for more uniform sound and also allowing you bring up the levels a little more because of the capping.
I don't see how a gate would avoid any distortion/clipping issues as it's supposed to just stop the quiter sounds from coming through, like pick up buzz on a guitar. Am I mistaken?
And when you say, "Mains for now", do you mean we should apply a global compression?
There's a Yamaha mixer that looks interesting, enough inputs for everyone and has one-knob compression on the first 6 or 7 channels. The only downside is they don't offer any built in effects to add reverb to the vocals and snare. |
Boogiman1981
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 02:15 pm: |
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Sorry for confusing. Compressor/limiter/gate is what I had in mind in previous post. Yes gate keeps low db sounds that are unwanted out of playback I.e. amp hum, compressor can be used for a variety of effects such as sustain for guitars and limiter is just that when you guys get excited and play a little harder/louder will limit signal levels to keep distortion and damage from occuring to equipment I.e. amps/speakers.
As for global no I wouldn't compress globally as a rule however I've been known to. Gates and limiting globally all day long.
What model yammy? |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 03:10 pm: |
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http://www.guitarcenter.com/Yamaha-MG206C-Mixer-10 4645452-i1320207.gc
We'd need, max, 15 mic'd channels and I *think* this one will do it (we have a 5-peice drumset +2 overheads, 2 guitars, bass, singer and vocals for all members). Compression is on channels 1-8.
Question - If we have a good sound system with subs, can the bass just run direct after his pedals or through his cab? That would free up an XLR jack... Could gain another one by running a single overhead on the drums...
I'd think, with that mixer, we'd run compression on all vocals, kick and snare, and the last one for ??? Am I heading in the right direction? |
Boogiman1981
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 03:34 pm: |
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I'm not familiar with that specific yammy. For your conditions I am sure it'll do the trick. Yes run the bass direct. Those lows from the stage will be impossible to control in any conditions and unbearble in a small venue. Is there a guitar center near you that you can put hands on that desk? Or any other music stores for that matter? Another thing to seriously consider is expansion. You'll be stuffing that thing full with what you're doing now what happens when someone adds another instrument? |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 03:42 pm: |
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More instruments are not allowed.
In all seriousness, going any larger than that with any real features is going to start to put at more than I want to spend considering I'll already need to add a few things to this one to get it on par.
And yes, I do have places I can check it out. It was actually one I was considering before when I bought the mixer I have now, but didn't because I figured I wanted the built-in effects more than the built in compression. |
Boogiman1981
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 03:52 pm: |
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Personally since you asked  I tend to steer clear of built in effects in general. They can nearly always be defeated which is good but they add unneeded expense and complexity to one of the areas I want super simple.
End of the day your ear you sound and your money. Not to insukt but if you haven't akready please read the book I linked it really is an amazing resource that I've been known to refer back to on many occasions.
Other thing I can suggest is to go and see if you can 'rent' it for a few weekends before wholly commiting. |
S1owner
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 30, 2011 - 05:58 pm: |
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Buy rack effects you should be able to run them thbrough a loop on the board then each channel you can choose to use it or not anf how much. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 12:55 pm: |
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Talk to me more about running guitars direct into the board... best way to do it, what you gain and what you loose... |
Boogiman1981
| | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 03:02 pm: |
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Via a direct box for most consols gain is complete control loss is he may not have 'that' sound from his old school tube amp. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 03:28 pm: |
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Would you go through the amp at all? Or just take it off the pedal chain with some kind of modeler then straight to the PA? |
Boogiman1981
| | Posted on Thursday, December 01, 2011 - 08:57 pm: |
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If I could avoid it none of the guitars would have their own amps in a small venue. Off the pedals straight to a di box then to console. Convincing the guitar guys takes some work though.... |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2011 - 12:36 pm: |
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Thanks, that's the gist I was getting on other forums. Seems everyone likes the idea of less clutter, but guitarists hate giving up the amp and having to find a suitable di box/modeler. They'll still need some kind of monitor, so the amps will probably stick around until we can afford all that gear. |
Boogiman1981
| | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2011 - 02:04 pm: |
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I understand believe me. I've had to 'convince' a few over the years. Basically what you wind up with in serious situations is a full blown monitor rig in addition to the house rig. I've worked with in ear moniters and they are where it's at period. Even less cluter lower volume levels and they help protect the bands hearing. Truly a very good thing.
Like we've said before and I am sure you've read elsewhere buy quality buy once. Buy cheap buy again.... quality is much more affordable in the long run. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Friday, December 02, 2011 - 04:34 pm: |
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Any input from anyone on the Carvin mixers? They look to have a great feature set, but I'm unsure of the quality...
The little reading I've done online seems to say that the powered mixers like to blow up, but what about the unpowered desks?
The advantage I see would be built-in compression like the Yammi but it also adds 2 effects processors... I know you don't like built-in effects, but for our purposes I think it would really simplify things. With powered speakers/subs, I don't think we'd need anything else save for maybe additional EQs or gates... |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 12:02 pm: |
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I think I found the answer...
http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/2404VLZ3
Mackie quality, channels to grow into, more useful built-in compression than either the Yammi or the Carvin, 4-bus, all for not TOO much more than either. |
Court
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 14, 2011 - 12:20 pm: |
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You can't go very far astray with either
A) Mackie - I'm using Mackie mixer and powered monitors at home.
B) Sweetwater - I bought 2 guitars from them in the last 2 weeks and they went way (I work with Paul Rowan) to deliver things were I needed them around the country, when I needed them there. They don't miss a beat. |
Ratbuell
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 07:48 am: |
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yamaha desks are great house desks...but don't like a lot of travel. They're fragile.
if (and it sounds like you are) its gonna be a road desk....go mackie.
if you need to expand later they have the "mixer-mixer". I can couple my pair of 1604's into a single 32, with a small box and two cables.
and a mixer, unless you're a DJ, should mix and eq. Period. Built-ins suck, at least compared to outboards. On board compressors help...but if you're really challenging the mics you're gonna find yourself going rack-mount anyway. Get a mixer that mixes, eq's, and loops. As many ins and outs and auxes as you can afford. Its like building a house - you can never have enough outlets. Same for a mixer - you can never have enough channels. |
Boogiman1981
| | Posted on Thursday, December 15, 2011 - 07:18 pm: |
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Yes the 2404 is a good solution. Get it. |
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