| Author | Message | ||
     Buellmojo |
Blake, http://www.pegramracing.com/ http://www.amaproracing.com/rr/news/index.cfm?cid= 40589 | ||
| Guell |
I guess I would wait to see if there ever is a comparison. Both are amazing bikes, more than I will ever need, or be able to utilize. I would like to see Ebr come put with a bike like the base 1199 for 15-18k. Mass produce the 1190 engine, go with some shows forks and rear shock, plastic fairings instead of carbon fiber ( I know its an option ) probably slightly detuned, or offer different tunes on the fly and I would highly consider one. Oh and make a streetfighter package, I prefer to be comfortable when I ride. On another note, both are extreme overkill for the street, my xb9s is more than enough for how I ride. | ||
| Blake |
I said "just last year", meaning 2010. Reports are that Pegram's bike was a WSB spec 1098R and he himself praised the factory at the time for their valuable support. Ducati was likely no less involved than when Ferraci was running their bikes under a "Factory" banner. | ||
| Bads1 |
Blake what racing teams are you referring to?? The BMW,the new Kawi have been tested and the tests show that the TC is very good on the bikes. Ducati has never thrown half ass equipment on there bikes...ever. BTW show the reports that Peagrams bike was WSB spec. If it was it shouldn't of been in AMA racing. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Im sure that Ducati assisted him in someway, just as Buell supported many racers when the company was around. Does that mean any time a rider of a Buell thanked Buell that meant they were a factory rider? Same thing here, you always thank anyone who gives you any assistance in racing. Always. You said you use to race, you should know this already. Hell, I still thank people/shops that gave me parts a couple of years ago | ||
| Hootowl |
TC is very good on those bikes. But at the professional racing level, they don't help. Remember that these things kill spark, or close the throttle to limit wheel slip. You either turn it off, or you replace it with something much better, and much more expensive. Reports are that the late entry KTM in AMA Superbike this past season had a $100,000 traction control system on it. Why isn't the S1000RR wining AMA races if its TC system is so good? Don't get me wrong, it IS good, just not at the level these guys are at. It would absolutely decrease my lap times. A real racer? Not so much. | ||
| Bads1 |
Why isn't the S1000RR wining AMA races if its TC system is so good? Don't get me wrong, it IS good, just not at the level these guys are at. It would absolutely decrease my lap times. A real racer? Not so much. Peagrams BMW UMMMM yes its the stock unit. And why aren't they winning?? Maybe because the money isn't dumped into there program like Suzuki or Yamaha even though Hayes runs without. Thats almost like saying if the EBR had it it would be winning. | ||
| Hootowl |
Money like for a top performing after market TC system like the guys who are winning use? | ||
| Hootowl |
"Thats almost like saying if the EBR had it it would be winning" It's absolutely not like saying that. EBR says they don't need one because they don't have traction issues. I believe them. | ||
| Hootowl |
Correction, like the guys who are winning with TC use? Obviously not the ones who are not using TC at all. | ||
| Bads1 |
It's absolutely not like saying that. EBR says they don't need one because they don't have traction issues. I believe them. You believe them lol??? Listen all bikes can and do have traction issues. Depends on track conditions... riders input into the bike... track temp.... tire choice....Suspension settings and the list can go on. Most of our AMA riders are from some form of dirt track or Moto-X background so learning how to ride withe electronics is a learning curve for alot of them. Thing is they need to learn it.... it coming of age.....fast. | ||
| 2kx1 |
The bmw has too much power,towards the end of the season teams went back to the "stock" equipment. The ktm, who knows, it lost the front end in all the races it was entered in. Harold K raced the ktm a year before he got on the EBR and won. The ktms he has raced against now don't seem to touch him. The new Duc I am sure will have reliability issues, just too many electronics on them now. As far as its handling goes , Stoner , current Motogp champion and Rossi, a former Motogp champion and Hayden ,yet another former Motogp champion have had there issues with a "frameless" bike design. These guys are faster than anyone here,they have had issues with this design. Iam not Ducati bashing nor am I drinking the kool-aid,just being observant. 1190rs versus 1199 Panigale at Daytona,I say bring that shit,it will make for a great race. | ||
| Bads1 |
The Duc will have realiabilty issues says you??? How can say that with confidence... you have no idea if it will or not.lol Also Hayden and Rossi and Stoner for the matter have had issues with it in a GP bike with a whole entire different engine. Thats like comparing apple to Oranges. Again you can't say that they will have any problems. (Message edited by bads1 on November 10, 2011) | ||
| 2kx1 |
EVERY 1st year Ducati has issues, that is a given. | ||
| Bads1 |
So where did you get your info ??? I | ||
| Blake |
Dana, The factory pro teams are not using OEM traction control. They use mostly Magnetti Marelli programable systems. BMW Racing has their own system. All are totally programmable, unlike any of the OEM systems. This is common knowledge. What, you think I'm lying to you??? You know, at some point it's just polite and respectful to accept what a friend is saying.  Pegram's bike was outed here by an impeccably reliable "Anonymous" poster. How you figure he was all of a sudden running at the front? | ||
| Blake |
Dana, Traction control doesn't help entering a corner too fast or leaning too far and losing the front. It mainly helps on corner exit and to prevent spinning down the high speed straights. The 1190 does very well exiting turns and seems to maintain good traction at high speed too. Might a massive investment in TC help Geoff improve his lap times, who knows. It's a HUGE effort requiring full time race support. It's nothing like just running the OEM systems. Ask Jens of the Pegasus Race Team, dual championship winners in Europe this year, BEARS, and Open Superbike. | ||
| Court |
>>>>The Duc will have realiabilty issues says you??? How can say that with confidence... No one can say that . . . we'll know when they get on the race track. I think the EBR 1190RS record last year SHATTERED lots of folks concerns about reliability . . . . . perhaps the Duc will. Until it shows up . . . like the EBR 1190RS did . . . week after week after week . . . . . posting top 10 finishes . . . well . . . .it's all speculation. EBR "put up" and lots of folks shut up . . . here's hoping Ducati does the same. It was cool to see Gabriele del Torchio come to Ducati and I'm betting they have some exciting things ahead of them if they can sort out the finances. | ||
| Court |
By the way . . . this is the best looking Ducati sportbike ever in my personal opinion. I think the Hypermotard is the new king of the street fighter in looks (let's face it, the Monster got long in the tooth) and the 1199 will make a great stabelmate | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Maybe EBR should show up at the world championship level of racing to try and prove YOUR point. Is Ducati billing this bike as a turn key race bike? Isn't the 1190 a built 1125 engine? I believe the Ducati is vastly different from anything they have ever built And going back a bit when someone said the "B2" was designed and built in less time that the new Duc, I'd say they're full of shit. The B2 has been floating around in Eriks head for 20 odd years. That being said, this thread was about the new Ducati. NOT the EBR 1190RS. Both bikes are BEAUTIFUL and are the epitome of each manufactures hard work and dedication. Isn't that enough? | ||
| Darth_villar |
"Maybe EBR should show up at the world championship level of racing to try and prove YOUR point." I believe competing with a SINGLE bike in the US was quite an achievement, I do not believe they had the time, excess money, or ability to race in other venues given the immense amount of work they were and are doing. "Is Ducati billing this bike as a turn key race bike?" Probably a matter of opinion, I thought it was. Just like I assume a GSXR-1000 is. They aren't built for cruising. "Isn't the 1190 a built 1125 engine?" In the same way a precision 383 stroker relates to a SBC in a van... Gross exaggeration, from what little I know of the 1190RS. "The B2 has been floating around in Eriks head for 20 odd years." So by that logic, the first time someone from Ducati thought of a bike, the design time starts then? Ludicrous. If the EBR can compete on equal footing against riders using TC systems, I would say that is proof of better designed frame and suspension components. Elegance is achieving the same end, with less mess, in that respect the EBR is more elegant IMHO. When companies compete, consumers win. The duc is a very good looking bike, and if I could manage the maintenance myself I wouldn't hesitate to buy one. I'm looking forward to this bike competing  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I'm excited to see the other than IL4 arms race firing back up. Ducati changed the game until the Big 4 changed the rules. V-twin, V-4, IL3, V3...... Can't wait to see what the future holds. | ||
| 2kx1 |
What they are deriving it from is not competitive. All new motor, not 20+ years of development. I like it ,though I think it is entirely too much. They will not be racing it in wsbk next year, only superstock. | ||
| Kenm123t |
I enjoy the Ducati fans from Austrailia they race them they dont worship them. Great bike builders terrible businessmen. I see Rocco is back to his usual nasty self Why is it that any one with the Rocket in their screen name is so mean and nasty? | ||
| Rocketsprink |
"The B2 has been floating around in Eriks head for 20 odd years." Yep. He's said it many times. You truly believe either bike went from mind to paper to production in a year. Insane. If you believe the GSXR at the dealer is the same as the teams run in the AMA, you're sorely mistaken. I believe the market them as a replica racer. The point of the world championship is many here seem to think the AMA Superbike series is the end all be all of racing. Again, sorely mistaken. And yes, the 1190 is a built 1125 engine. Modified with race components. Maybe EBR should ditch the slipper clutch and just rely on the frame then. This thread is exactly what I hate about this forum. Someone post about a different bike manufacturer and their new bike and with in a few post, someone has to start with how much better the EBR bike is and how much it costs or how difficult maintenance is (BTW, the 1190 needs valve adjustments just like the Duc)which bike is faster, which will win at the track (which last time I checked, Ducati has won more races than all BUELLS and EBR bikes combined). Until you or I have a chance to ride both, we will never truly know. But then I fall prey to the same thing that aggravates me. Again. Both bikes are a work of art, built by people that excel at what they do. I will appreciate both bikes for that, and let everyone else argue on a subject they really have no experience to base their "facts" on | ||
| Rocketsprink |
"I see Rocco is back to his usual nasty self Why is it that any one with the Rocket in their screen name is so mean and nasty?" To offset pole smokers like YOU Ken | ||
| Rocketsprink |
And please point out where I'm being "mean and nasty". Is it because I don't agree with your idols Blake or Court? Believe it or not, I very much respect Blake and Courts opinions. But I don't have to agree with them, where as if they said the sky was red, you'd agree. No questions asked. Try having an original thought of your own rather than regurgitating what the guys you have a man crush on say.Is that mean and nasty enough, or shall I continue? You are the personification of the idiot that does exactly what I posted on the above threads. | ||
| Blake |
Poo. The WSBK spec machines are far far removed from the street bikes they are based upon. So far the EBR 1190RS in AMA SBK is an EPA compliant street bike with a few basic race kit goodies, oh and a 25 LB chunk of lead. The full on AMA racer is still in the works, little steps, keep it reliable. A full-blown WSBK machine? Kinda lame to demand EBR show up to the fight unarmed. >>> many here seem to think the AMA Superbike series is the end all be all of racing Huh??? No idea where that came from. The AMA happens to be where EBR is competing, oh and PRT running an EBR 1190 in Europe. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Thanks for proving my point once again Rocco!  | ||
| Trojan |
Which super bike class production machine introduced that and was successful in professional racing, winning virtually right out of the box? If you don't think that caught the attention of Ducati, you're kidding yourself. Blake, your rose tinted specs are getting fogged I think. There have been plenty of bikes with offset rear shocks before the EBR1190 appeared, so I really don't think that Ducati copied it or were anything more than vaguely aware of its existence when developing the Panigale. As for 'winning straight out of the box' you are being a little selective there surely? How many WSB or International class races has the EBR 1190 won? I'm not saying it isn't capable of doing so but it simply hasn't raced against sufficient international opposition of high enough calibre to state that yet. Maybe if they race and win at WSB then you can crow about it then. Ducati have been building bikes and winning races at World level for long enough to be able to plough their own furrow when it comes to motorcycle design. As for your contention that Pegrams Ducati was WSB spec that is just plain wrong. AMA rules would not allow a WSB Spec Ducati (Or any other make come to that) to enter their races, so Pegram's Ducati was like a Superstock spec bike than a WSB spec (If that). The full on AMA racer is still in the works, little steps, keep it reliable. A full-blown WSBK machine? Kinda lame to demand EBR show up to the fight unarmed. Why? You assert that it has won races 'straight from the crate' so why don't you think it would do well at World level. You can't have it both ways, so either it is good enough or not. If the bike is good enough why not race it in WSB now? I'm not talking about a factory team but I would bet there is a team out there who would be willing to give it a go if they thought it could win them races and given factory support. |
