| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Read quick or subscribe. The article disappears in hours. http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2011/11/finally- the-ducati-1199-is-revealed/ Underslung muffler, offset mounted rear shock. Gee, where've we seen that before? Ducati folks are smart. They know good innovation when they see it.  | ||
| Court |
The tail section also bears a striking resemblance to the EBR 1190RS. Sweet looking bike. | ||
| Thumper74 |
I like it! It looks like an upmarket CBR1000RR, though, I wonder about the torsional forces on the rear cylinder with the shock mount offset. | ||
| Blake |
An excerpt: “Ducati has never built a sportbike as advanced as the 1199 Panigale,” says Ducati GM, Claudio Domenicali. “We are moving into a revolution of the species.” 164Kg (362 LB) dry, so curb weight of ~ 420 LB? 192 BHP, so ~168 RWHP? | ||
| Tankhead |
I bet that muffler won't rust..... Awesome video with the chess pieces. Thanks for posting Blake. Beautiful bike. | ||
| Dannyd |
I would say your calculations will not be too far off real world numbers Blake. Both this bike and the new EBR bike are definately more bike than 99% of the folks on this forum could ever use!!! Now if we could just get something close for around $12,000??? | ||
| Froggy |
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| Court |
Surely we'll see this in AMA Superbike . . . I'd LOVE to see this thing go head to head with the EBR 1190RS! | ||
| Clarkjw |
Sadly, I think this crushes the EBR commercially. It def does on the racetrack. THE BASE MODEL is under $20,000. Unless EBR comes out with a base model with Showa suspension, fiberglass bodywork, the ABS ZTL (i know it exists), those sick wheels in a aluminum, and all those extra goodies, its checkmate. It’s incredibly light (164kg dry), incredibly powerful (192bhp) and incredibly intelligent (ABS, traction control, ride-by-wire, engine brake control, electronically adjustable suspension, TFT dash | ||
| Fahren |
yeah, that. ^ | ||
| Doerman |
Nice work, Ducati!! About crushing the competition.. That definitely remains to be seen. | ||
| Darth_villar |
"It def does on the racetrack." Huh? | ||
| Phelan |
No way this crushes EBR commercially, since it's not American, it' not <100 produced, and it's not NEARLY as exclusive as the EBR. Also, I'm pretty sure that the EBR has a better P/W ratio, even if HFL doesn't think the EBR is production. "Limited" production is still production. Not to mention we have yet to see how they compare on the track, which I think is going to be FUN. | ||
| Strokizator |
I just hope Ducati can field a competitive bike in next year's MotoGP. The 800 cc version this year was junk. | ||
| Bads1 |
Alright lets compare the Ducati to the 1190. The Ducati has this and it just like the 1190. And Ducati stole that idea from EBR. And doesn't this look almost the same as the 1190?? Come on..... The Duc is a work of art it always has. The EBR is the same people let it go.lol | ||
| Boltrider |
The Duc does look very good. Very much looking forward to a side-by-side between the Duc and the 1190, complete with dyno numbers, a scale, and track evaluations. | ||
| Fast1075 |
"Complete with dyno numbers, a scale, and track evaluations"...I am quite sure several moto journalism venues are quite literally salivating at the thought of who gets it out first. It will be the moto equivalent to "the thrilla in manila"...a smackdown of epic proportions...a vesuvius vs krakatoa....the force vs the dark side.. I'm ready to see it happen  . (Message edited by fast1075 on November 07, 2011) | ||
| Svh |
This is one of the best looking superbikes I have seen. Love the taillights and the headlights. The tail resembles the Suzuki GSXR way more than the 1190RS. 1190 tail is more round than angular. Unless this is similar to a new 1190RS tail section that Court accidentally hinted at  I can tell you the magazines will pick the Ducati over the EBR machine and not on brand bias but on the $12k price difference between the top of the line Ducati and the 1190RS. That is a huge chunk of change! Plus the Ducati has all the electronic goodies that the 1190 does not have. Some may not want those goodies but enough must because more and more bikes are showing up with them every year. I am looking forward to a comparison of the 1190RS and any bike but it will come down to price and there just aren't many bikes that come close to the price of the 1190RS. Aprilia, BMW, Ducati and MV all top out in the mid to upper $20k range. Maybe Ducati will come out with a high(er) end version with the carbon frame instead of aluminum that will be close in price to the 1190. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
$28K for a top of the line Duc vs $40K for a top of the line E.B.R... As much as I like E.B.R. and traction control being in the wrist of the rider, I'd have to pic the Duc... for now. | ||
| Midknyte |
http://www.motorcycledaily.com/2011/11/ducati-1199 -panigale-rolled-out-to-excited-press-in-milan/ | ||
| Kenm123t |
Nice bike lets go racing | ||
| Trojan |
I think you will be very uunlikely to see any of the non US magazines do a back to back test of the Ducati vs EBR1190 simply because the EBR is not considered a production bike outside the US (yet). In much the same way you don't see Confederate or Indian vs H-D/Victory in road tests. Until we can buy a EBR1190 from a high street dealer like you can for Ducati, it won't figure on the radar of most publications and will remain a 'boutique' high end purchase. Blake - do you really think that the Ducati will lose nearly 30bhp between crank and rear wheel? I doubt it very much I would expect the Panigale to produce 180rwbhp+ going on pre-release information. | ||
| 03fatboy |
http://www.1199panigale.ducati.com/en The bike looks amazing and not just a cookie cutter liter bike. I would love to have one. | ||
| Notpurples2 |
$28K for a top of the line Duc vs $40K for a top of the line E.B.R... Granted that the 1199S should be more than enough to take on the 1190. However, The "S" shouldn't be Ducati's top of the line. Ducati usually puts out an "R" or "Corse" version that hits just under $40K with all the usual upgrades plus more power and less weight. I could see them making a R Corse model with 200hp+ and a whole lotta carbon fiber. They might even replace the front "frame" section with carbon. Here's this year's R Corse http://www.totalmotorcycle.com/photos/2011models/2 011-Ducati-1198RCorse.htm Notice that the R was making a whopping 180hp. The new stardard 1199 already has that beat. (Message edited by notpurples2 on November 08, 2011) | ||
| Cowboy |
I want to see how they are running after 30000 miles. that wil tell the story. | ||
| J2blue |
Just like the E.B.R. 1190 this Ducati is a beautiful bike. And Ducati has just affirmed the design principles Erik has espoused so I see it as a big win for both. Erik should be able to better convince venture capital to invest in the next iteration of E.B.R. production bikes that have a far lower price tag and much higher volume. I could be wrong, but I sense great things are around the corner for our favorite American bike builder. | ||
| Blake |
Matt, >>> Blake - do you really think that the Ducati will lose nearly 30bhp between crank and rear wheel Your math is off; 192 - 168 = 24. Also, the 168 RWHP estimate is not BHP (brake HP, meaning measured by a brake type dynamometer), but rather inertial HP (IHP?), meaning measured by an inertial type dynamometer). So the reduction is not all powertrain parasitic losses; some is lost to inertial effects (accelerating rather than holding a steady engine speed). I used a factor of 12.5% parasitic and inertial effect losses as would be expected for a RWHP test on an inertial dynamometer. That is the standard with which we are all familiar. It could easily be 15%, but it might be as low as 10%. Going by the 1198, Ducati claimed a 170 BHP engine. Dyno testing of the 1198 by Sport Rider magazine showed 145 RWHP. Those values indicate a 15% loss factor. If that trend holds for the 1199, then it's measured RWHP will be around 163 RWHP. | ||
| Blake |
Most concerning for Ducati are reports that they have yet to solve their problem with fogging helmet visors. Apparently the phenomenon has something to do with their superbikes being beaten by Buell and now possibly EBR racers. | ||
| Bads1 |
Sorry I'll take the Duc. I knew Blake would make a comment like that. | ||
| Crusty |
I don't want either one. I'm waiting for an EBR Sport - Tourer. I had an S3-T and loved how it handled and the power it made, and it could eat miles comfortably; but the reliability was a bit, um, weak.I think a Sport - Tourer built on the 1125 or 1190 platform would be extremely sweet. The 1190 is a kick ass bike, and the Duck will be, too; if I had to choose one, it's no question that I'd pick the 1190. I think desmodromic valve actuation is an unnecessarily complex solution to a problem that has ceased to exist for decades. Some people see it as a Ducati "signature"; but all I see is a lot of unnecessary moving parts that add complexity without adding any performance upgrade. I'm a firm believer in the idea that the more moving parts there are, the more opportunities for one or more of them to break. I prefer the EBR also for the Incredible Customer Service that I've seen over and over from Buell. I've seen and personally experienced the best Customer Service in the entire Motorcycle Industry. That definitely gives the EBR a huge advantage when it comes time for me to open my wallet. The Duck may be nice, but the EBR is pretty slick, too. |
