| Author |
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Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 12:43 pm: | 
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>>> Ducati put their shock where they did on the Panigale because of compromise, not better weight distribution or weight balance.
Matt, they compromised on the shock location in order to achieve better mass centralization, and weight balance. What reason do you imagine they compromised on the shock location? 
The word "copy" is inaccurate and never what I've asserted in this discussion, or if I did, I was dead wrong to do so. What I've contended is that certain beneficial innovations were proven in racing by Buell and others have followed their lead. "Copy" implies a duplication, clearly not the case.
We all understand that motorcycles through history have employed an offset rear shock. Which have successfully employed and proven that scheme in modern superbike/sportbike class racing?
Did you know Harley-Davidson was running overhead cam four valve engines in the 1920's? I'd not credit them with spurring the sport-bikes of the 1970's to implement such innovation. I'd credit the ones who proved it in modern street bike racing classes. Honda or whichever brought it on. Likewise the four cylinder inline engine. It existed LONG before Honda made it the engine to beat in sport bike racing. I credit Honda, not Indian for that innovative development.
Relevance matters.
>> There is very very little in motorcycle design that hasn't been done or thought about before,
Some folks probably said the same back in 1960. It wasn't true then; I strongly doubt that it is true today. Of course your qualifier of "thought about" is irrelevant. It is the implementation and proof of concept in modern competition that is relevant. I've "thought about" traveling faster than light. LOL.
>>> so the whole argument about copying is pretty lame to be honest.
There never was such an argument. It was invented by you. My characterizations have been that Ducati followed the lead of Buell. Ducati did not copy Buell. I agree with that.
>>> Everybody has copied the first guy who put an engine in a pedal cycle back in 18..whenever it was. Since then we have pretty much only just tweeked the design in small increments.
Copied? Not so much. Adopted the idea, and carried on is a more accurate characterization. Again, to copy implies to duplicate.
That said, those who successfully implement new ways to improve performance in modern street bike racing ought to be recognized for doing so, especially when a company like Ducati follows their lead.
Good on Ducati! Their visor finally seems to have cleared up. Function over style. I dig it. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 12:51 pm: |
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>>> Just because the bikes fitted with them didn't race in the same AMA class as the 1125/1190 does not make them irrelevant or invisible. The physics involved are exactly the same whatever class bike you have.
Physics is physics no matter what you are talking about short of subatomic particles.
What is not the same are the loads and extremes of performance. Lighter, slower, less powerful just doesn't push the demands upon a chassis or suspension like a heavier, faster, more powerful machine can. So too the demands of world class professional racing far exceed those of club racing. I don't recall a prominent world class racing series featuring any offset rear suspension scheme until Buell introduced it in 2007. |
Mr_grumpy
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 01:22 pm: |
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Whatever happened to that rabbit with a pancake on it's head? |
Court
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 01:45 pm: |
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>>>Whatever happened to that rabbit with a pancake on it's head?
Never around when you need him . . . Silly Wabbit. |
Guell
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 02:23 pm: |
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I understand both sides of this debate. I decided it was best to step out of it. Both machines are amazing. Both have similarities. Your never going to get away from that though, well there are rare cases like the britten.
I wish nothing but success for both companies, especially Ebr.
Good on Ducati! Their visor finally seems to have cleared up. Function over style. I dig it.
the awesome thing is I think both the 1190 and the 1199 both do it with style too. I'm just hoping we can eventually see these two bikes pitted against each other. Being both so capable, there really isn't a loser on which one you prefer |
Hybridmomentspass
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 02:27 pm: |
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BUELL DID IT AND ITS THE GREATEST EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!11
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
ALL OTHERS ARE FOLLOWING BUELLS LEAD!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! |
Guell
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 02:34 pm: |
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Lol, how much does a buell race system weigh compared to say a 1198 race exhaust? |
Froggy
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 03:16 pm: |
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 |
Rpm4x4
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 03:36 pm: |
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Thats a good looking rabbit! |
Ducxl
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 04:22 pm: |
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Hassenfeffer!!!!! "Where's my Hassenfeffer!!" |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 05:28 pm: |
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That pancake has shifted aft for better mass centralization.
Now I'm hungry.
Anybody have any fried rabbit they want to share? |
Hybridmomentspass
| | Posted on Thursday, November 17, 2011 - 11:24 pm: |
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we've all heard (and hopefully youve eaten, cause its delicious) of Chicken and Waffles
new thing:
rabbit and pancakes |
2kx1
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2011 - 03:49 am: |
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Perimeter rotor on Bimota DB9 Brivido.
I know it is not the Ducati, but it is now on another bike, I guess in 3 or 4 more years when everyone is using it then it will be the best braking system. |
Trojan
| | Posted on Friday, November 18, 2011 - 05:03 am: |
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Perimeter rotor on Bimota DB9 Brivido.
No, The Bimota DB9 Brivido shown at Milan last week had Brembo monobloc brakes and Brembo rotors/discs. The DB10 had brembo calipers and braking discs.
There was a carbon fibre bodied DB8 at the show (pictures in another thread somehwere) that had what looked like a Braking perimeter mounted front disc, but that is not the same as the Buell system and has been around for a few years in various forms and fitted to Ghezzi & Brians Guzzi based Supertwin bikes previously.
(Message edited by trojan on November 18, 2011) |
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