| Author | Message | ||
     Fahren |
Welcome to the Fourth Reich! | ||
| Sifo |
Forgive me, I only made it about halfway through that article, but if I have the jist of it correct... Germany is the bad guy for suggesting that the rest of the EU countries learn to live within their means? Let me know if there's more I should know about it the second half. Bad Germans! (Message edited by SIFO on November 04, 2011) | ||
| Reindog |
Yeah, paint a mustache on Chancellor Merkel and she is the spitting image of Hitler. Germany should be the role model for developed countries as well the industriousness and frugality of its citizens. I am of German heritage and I am looked at as a bad American. I struggled to get my education. I work hard. I pay my debts. I do without the things I want but do not need. I don't buy something until I can pay for it with the exception of real estate and education. I abhor credit except when I can pay my balance in full each month. Yeah, I am a good German but a bad American. In the fifties, German unions protested that the pay raises offered them were too much and would hurt the economy. | ||
| Reindog |
Chris, this is strike two for you this morning. May I suggest that you switch to Sanka? You are simply not making sense today. | ||
| Fahren |
Look, Sanka is awful stuff! :-) I am more inclined for bashing US corporate and government policy for not doing what the Germans have done since 1945 - why were we trying to compete with China for manufacturing crap, and only now it seems that we are waking up to the idea that we should have worked and worked to preserve the premier status of "Made in USA." Maybe if the country hadn't switched to Sanka, we would have woken up earlier? The Germans have every reason to keep the PIIGS (poorer) Euro countries struggling, holding down the value of the Euro, and thereby aiding their export. Don't go thinking that the Germans have just let things go whatever way the "invisible hand" of the market would dictate. They have their hands on the Ouija board pointer, and are pushing that thing all over the board, to get it to read what works best for their economy, even if it is at the expense of their Euro-brethren. Again, not bashing their valuesof hard work, focus on quality over quantity, etc. But just saying it's not as free a market as one would like. And Reindog, who made you umpire? Talk about a rigged game! | ||
| Sifo |
After reading the rest of the article I fail to see the problem with Germany. They are linked with other EU countries and are being asked to bail out much of the EU zone. The ones being bailed out are frustrated because Germany is putting conditions on the bailout, that they behave in a fiscally sound manner. The article makes it clear that this is a choice those countries are free to make for themselves; Of course the other choice is dropping from the EU and going into default. This is like a teenager who gets dad to co-sign for his car loan. Now that dad is taking over the payments that weren't being made the teenager is mad that dad is going to impose some lifestyle restrictions so that the teenager can continue to drive.  | ||
| Fahren |
The teenager never should have been seduced by the lifestyle image, fun, and mobility offered up to him - never should have bought the car - if he couldn't make the payments. But if he had a big financial firm like Goldman Sachs make his income-to-expense ratio look really attractive to his dad, then sure, his dad would sign on with him for the car. | ||
| Guell |
So what your saying is it wouldnt really be the teenagers fault, the one who is buying the car you know, but the dads fault for being duped into co-signing? | ||
| 1324 |
I see nothing wrong with this. This is a simple case of supply vs. demand. Germany has the funds, the rest of Europe doesn't. If I were Germany, I'd do the same thing. Call it nation building, call it loan sharking, etc. And to the tune of the teenager/car scenario, this is akin to the teenager getting bailed out, furious with being grounded, and then ragging on his friends who bought their cars through long hours of hard work. This entitlement bullshit needs to stop. When did the entire world get lazy? | ||
| Reindog |
Another swing and a miss, Chris. The teenager should have taken public transportation or hitch-hiked until he had worked to save enough to afford the car and its expenses. I didn't own a car until I was 29. I biked, motorcycled, took a bus, or hitch-hiked to take care of business. Greece should never have gone down the road of Socialism. It did not start out annihilated like Germany was after WWII. Yet, look at Germany. Now you seek to blame Germany for working hard. Sound familiar? | ||
| Fahren |
No, picture the bank who loans the money to the kid and his dad, making money on the loan and fees, but then betting against that loan (shorts, etc.), and making money when the loan defaults. Oh, and the head of the bank was a long-time, trusted financial advisor of the family who bought the car. http://smooz.4your.net/diplomatic-world/files/DW_2 6_Greece.pdf Germany does not have the funds, by the way. European banks are basically insolvent (but then again, so is the USA), and the money to "bail out" the big banks who are on the hook for all the money they stupidly loaned to a risky Greece has to come from the German and French tax payers. Hmm.... tax payers funding the bailout of large banks who made bad investments...Sound familiar? | ||
| Fahren |
Reindog, if you are playing umpire, I'm going to kick dirt on your shoes. You need glasses! I am not disagreeing with you. What part of: The teenager never should have been seduced by the lifestyle image, fun, and mobility offered up to him - never should have bought the car - if he couldn't make the payments. do you not understand and agree with? Sheesh! Stop reacting with knee jerks! | ||
| Strokizator |
Mercedes, BMW and Volkswagen have manufacturing plants in the US. Shame on them. | ||
| Fahren |
The Greek situation is bad, but not unique. Can you think of any other countries where government spending is way too high? And to fix it, you can cut spending and/or raise taxes. Hmm. Now, in Greece, the people are out in the streets rioting over these proposed measures. It gets ugly. Interesting article: http://whiskeyandgunpowder.com/greece-and-goldman- sachs/ | ||
| Fahren |
Back to Sanka!  | ||
| Xdigitalx |
Couldn't the kid have gotten a second job once he realized need more money to afford the car payments. You know..2nd job? extra hours? part-time extra work? The kid chose not to work extra, purely his choice. He could have made a change he chose not to. How is that anyone else's fault. | ||
| Sifo |
Fahren, It's scary to have a window into your mind. How is it that you never see that a person should be responsible for their own actions? If he's a victim of the bank giving him an auto loan, then he's also a victim of the land lord who is willing to rent him a roof over his head and of the grocer willing to sell him food to eat and the shop keeper willing to sell him clothes to wear. If you could apply some of that logic to the mortgage meltdown, where FM/FM really went overboard with telling people what they could afford you would see that FM/FM really was the root cause of the collapse (under congressional oversight). Note that FM/FM is sucking at the bailout teat once again! None of that ever takes away from the personal responsibility of the individual when they sign a contract saying that they will repay at $xxx per month though. | ||
| Guell |
They were tricked and they were the victim though sifo, i mean those evil banks tricked them into affording more than they could buy... Bullshit! people need to own up, realize they were morons and didnt read any of the contracts they were signing and deal with it. I just bought a house and i knew exactly what i was signing and what it all meant. Im tired of idiots getting bailed out. Back on topic, i really have no issues with what Germany is doing. It seems to make sense that since they are bailing out people they should write the financial rules about the money they are giving out. If they dont, who knows how long til these countries were in need of more. | ||
| Sifo |
I think it's worth noting at this point in the discussion... Fox News lies! | ||
| Mtjm2 |
Dang , I thought Greece would win it all ! | ||
| Kenm123t |
Fahren sounds like the banker is doing his job protecting his stock holders investment That loan probably is paying some stockholders retirement income. | ||
| Brumbear |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qMUorA_nQEs Learn it like it | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Default and let the chips fall where they may | ||
| Xodot |
the IMF is the true power here IMHO not the German govt. I have been leery of that organization since i first heard of it in the 80's. the IMF was created for this exact purpose - to entice countries into debt by offering easy terms and having the countries using the only thing a country has as collateral - the freedom of their citizens. debt is bondage. greece in is bondage and the world gets to see the squirming agony of a nation dying. It happened in Ireland too didn't it? they were just quiet about it. Iceland is another victim that comes to mind but ISTBC on that. | ||
| Fahren |
Xodot, true that. Well said. Iceland is a special case. The IMF gave Iceland loans, but they have not used them, nor have they yet repaid them. The IMF wants to use Iceland as a poster-child for a 'kinder, gentler" IMF. But they have not changed, it is exactly the same game you describe. Greece, Ireland, Iceland. Now, soon, Italy, Portugal, Spain. You will see it, over and over. The "haircuts" on the Greek debt do not touch the amounts owed by Greece to the IMF or the European Central Bank - only to private banks. ISTBC? | ||
| Kenm123t |
Notice the connections Socialized every thing! Look up why the Pilgrims had a Thanksgiving with the Indians 1 the indians fed them 2 they learned collectivism socialism communism doesnt work. | ||
| Brumbear |
Free your mind your ass will follow!!! How en-bonded do the Germans look!!!! Come on guys Greece is in trouble cause they don't do squat !!!!!!!!! This right to entitlement crap bothers hell outa me!! The entitlement folks had there go along with the liberals TIMES UP FAIL move on work or loose it's really that simple. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Grecian population failed to learn Aesops Fables Ant and the Grasshopper for a start. The further a society get s from the land the more losers it produces | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Be aware that the "Daily Mail" is an English right wing somewhat sensationalist tabloid newspaper. So engage the correct filter when reading. | ||
| Fahren |
right wing somewhat sensationalist Should fit right in here! |
