| Author | Message | ||
     Boogiman1981 |
well it would seem that it's 'not their problem' this is insanity CPR trained BY THE COMPANY AED on site provided BY THE COMPANY and the rescuer was told to stop rescuing????? http://goo.gl/sZ03p | ||
| Hootowl |
We have defibrillators in our building too. We're not allowed to use them. You can make things worse if you don't know what you're doing. There are a few people who have had training on them, and they are the only ones with access. Ordering someone to stop CPR and get back on the phone is flat out wrong. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Hoot i am a cpr instructor i promise with an AED you can't screw it up other than not using it. | ||
| Greatnorthrider |
Most likely you have AED's (Automatic External Defibrillators) in your building and no, you CAN NOT make it worse by using them. The computer in the AED device decides when to administer the corrective counter shock not the person attaching the device. This is why the AED is in so many places...It has taken the need for advanced training out of the equation. If someone needs to be defibrillated, they are already in deep trouble and can't really get any worse. (ie: they are going to die!) CPR does NOT correct a dysrhythmia! Only electrotherapy or drugs can do that. | ||
| Hootowl |
I hope you're both right. Fact is though, we're not allowed to use them. | ||
| Hootowl |
We're also not allowed to use the portable fire extinguishers. We're to pull the alarm and exit the building. Come to think of it, we do have some pretty stupid rules. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
We are he gave more details than i did. bottom line they are safe to use. they are designed to failsafe as well. short answer is if they don't 'see' the right electrical patterns produced by the heart that are associated with certain non productive rhythms they will not charge the high voltage side of the device. other bonus from the advancement of tech is that most of the ones produced in the last 4-5yrs will couch you through cpr!! they are amazingly helpful and safe devices that may or may not have helped this woman but in any case should have been applied and used. in my experience with companies that restrict them they will use FUD to keep access restricted however the true concern is theft. | ||
| Ulyranger |
The above is correct and I cannot believe any establishment with an AED(s) is not training every single employee in their use. If for no other reason than to give everyone on site the confidence to grab the thing off the wall when needed. Regardless of whether trained or not, if someone is dying follow the extremely easy to read diagram, attach the electrodes and hit the initiate button. Done. The machine does the rest. CPR is buying time only, regardless of what Hollywood depicts on film. Though it is wrong for this employee (in story) to be told to stop CPR, even if she wasn't properly certified. Like the story states, that's what the Good Samaritan laws are intended to address provided the "responder" citizen was acting in good faith. Which in this situation it appears she definitely was. (Message edited by ulyranger on October 25, 2011) | ||
| Union_man |
With a pulse less, breath less person "Early Defibrillation and Quality CPR" is proven to save lives. A patient who has no heart beat, and is not breathing, will not live for much more than about 4 minutes. If there is no intervention the person will die. Modern AED's can be used by untrained "Good Samaritans’", and lives have been saved by people with no formal AED training. Likewise, people have been saved by people who are untrained in CPR too. If you find yourself confronted a pulse less, breath less person, do not hesitate to render aid, even if you are untrained. Call 911 and try to help. 911 operators are trained to "Coach" everyday citizens to do CPR and the use of an AED. You are covered by the "Good Sam" law so you will not have to fear a lawsuit. (In USA) I have, however, encountered situations where an AED has recommended an unnecessary shock. It can happen when the AED's verbal commands were ignored, and chest compressions exceeded 120 per minute. Chest compressions in excess of 120 can mimic a shockable rhythm. Here is a 3 minute video A person who has no heartbeat and is not breathing will die. The remote possibility of administering an unnecessary shock is outweighed by the the consequences of inaction! Motorcyclists can find themselves in situations where First Aid and CPR are the difference between life and death. Take some time this winter to take a class. The life you save may be mine! (Message edited by union_man on October 25, 2011) | ||
| Panhead_dan |
A lot of companies have them for insurance reasons. They don't want anyone to touch them for cost reasons. Same with fire extinguishers. The fact is, a modern defribulator is extremely user friendly. All you need to know is how to read just enough to get the pads placed properly and the machine will talk you through the rest. The fire extinguisher only needs enough reading to operate and aim at the base of the flame. Insurance companies suck and so do companies that fake a safety program. jmo. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
There are one or two at work I would really like to use a difrib on, however.... | ||
| Aesquire |
Good thing I wasn't there. 1. I would have broken down the door to the first aid room, and then been fired. ( desks + attitude = door gone ) 2. I would have injured the supervisor, then been fired. ( First responder trained lunatic + bad boss = cranial injuries... from breaking down first aid room door ) 3. I probably would have collapsed after a half hour of CPR, since you just don't quit until the ambulance gets there and someone with a higher cert/ability shows up. ( stubborn lunatic + out of shape = need for CPR ) Hoot, Where I work they have idiot rules like that too. Fire extinguishers cost money. The Office nurse is gone to save money. Lawsuits cost money. Idiocy costs money. ( that last one they never understand ) All I can suggest is take a CPR + AED course. The cost in time and money is tiny compared to the confidence that you won't screw up because you are ignorant. You still worry about screwing up, but you at least know what you're supposed to be doing. The new AEDs just rock. | ||
| Crackhead |
The newest AEDs I have been trained on doesn't even have written instructions, just pictures. I think my 3year cousin could operate it. His lego instructions are more complex the the aed. | ||
| Firemanjim |
There is a reason for the AUTOMATIC part of the name------they are made for use by the untrained masses. | ||
| Tbolt_pilot |
AEDs got put into most all the buildings on the military bases around 2004. We all received training within a couple weeks after we got them. It's was a good thing we did. I wasn't a month later that a contractor installing overhead doors fell out right in the loading dock with 20+ service members within sight. ALL OF US have CPR/First Responder-type training annually. CPR started within seconds and the AED was used on him. Unfortunately, this guy was pretty much dead before he hit the floor, but the AED hit him a couple times and I think if his heart would have been in one piece still, he might have been saved. The AED has been used at least three other times in that building since then that I know of, with success. Aesquire... I, and thousands of others, are with you. Anybody stopping life-saving efforts because of 'insurance liability' will be the next person in line to need first-aid for "a bleeding orifice on or about the head". | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Tbolt Cardiac Science AEDs? used to work for them and did a lot of the installs and training and maintenance after the fact for the reservists throughout fl, ga, al, sc and nc. did same for Amtrak and several other large office parks and a few malls as well. at most with an AED you'll have 3 buttons normally now 1 or none. always have had pictographic instructions most if not all will talk you through the entire procedure including pad placement and will even coach you on correct rhythm in between shocks or when shocking isn't needed. amazing tools to have around. i think it wass/is lexus that you could get one as a part of a new SUV buy... | ||
| Xl1200r |
We just had them put in recently. They are locked and alarmed, but breaking the glass door would get you entry easily. To my knowledge, no one has been trained on them (not in mass, anyways) but I recall e-mails going out explaining what they are and what they do and the automatic nature of the device. The fire extinguisher is right next to it, also locked up - I don't think breaking the glass would get it out, though. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
they aren't supposed to be under lock and key. the cabinet should be accessible without breaking glass; causing injury. | ||
| Panhead_dan |
Those fire extinguisher cabinets will open with a good yank even if locked. | ||
| Tbolt_pilot |
I don't remember the brand or anything. They were the first I had ever seen. But for a mix of Joint Service guys who were the top of our career fields to do the job we were doing, they couldn't have been simpler. "Only one button? Are these real?" I actually mounted ours around the building with the help of the building manager. I had some wall-mountable wooden boxes made up with plexi fronts that they just dropped into so as to be easily grabbed "in a panic". They were certainly not locked up. I can't fathom what idiots would put these in locked containers unless they are simply there to get better insurance rates or satisfy some federal mandate that they 'be present'. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
to have them locked away goes against every reason for having them there. the AHA has done mass scale testing and the improvements are amazing when people are trained and use aeds and are equally amazing when people that aren't trained but use the aeds. key thing is putting hands on the victim. pretty much anything that a bystander will do will work to improve the chances of survival and not jsut survival but a return to a quality of life that is within norms as well. aeds and their effective use cannot be understated in any way. they are safe simple and good for what ails you. they aren't going to fix everyone but for those that need it it's the only thing that will. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I thought this was another zombie thread. 'Because a brain is a terrible thing to have to taste' | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
I thought this thread was about me, as that's how I've been feeling this week. | ||
| Steeleagle |
I'm hoping some companies are simply being ineffective at getting their message out. As a former safety manager, we provide the full-tilt emergency training, with certification training in first aid, CPR and the use of an AED. You can't make things worse for a dead person by using an AED. I'd also suggest that you take another look at the "locked" cabinets. There's probably an ALARM that is activated by key (not a door lock) so the company can be alerted by the audible alarm if a unit has been tampered with or deployed. But the doors of the cabinet should open readily. Re; Fire extinguishers. Our company policy is that we only EXPECT employees to evacuate during a fire and do NOT expect them to use a fire extinguisher. They are available for use by trained individuals. This statement is MANY times interpreted as a prohibition. ...NOT the case! We don't REQUIRE anyone to place their lives in danger to fight a fire. We provide training for designated individuals who may perform work that has a fire risk (welding or other hot work), as well as any interested employees. But while we don't PROHIBIT employees from using extinguishers, if you ask 100 employees, I'd bet at least 25% would tell you "We're not allowed to use them." Re; Emergency equipment under lock and key: That's just wrong! If your stuff IS locked up, somebody's head needs to be examined...or taken off! |
