| Author | Message | ||
     86129squids |
OK youn's- here in Mur-vil it's been getting colder, to the point that I've just turned on the heat for the first time this fall... I've got a small "shoebox" of a house, just me and my honey and the dog here, 2BR, dinky bath, kitchen and LR. My central unit uses gas, but due to its age the heat exchangers are leaky- of course it's too old/obsolete to fiddle with them for good $$$. I've been wondering about those new console quartz heaters- efficacy, costs, safety. Heck, I may be able to get away with a couple of those small ceramic heaters for a while before it gets really cold here, but still wanting to eliminate completely the need to fire the gas unit ($$$). Looking for good opinions. Looking forward to a warm, colorfulleafy fall... and to BTF! | ||
| Xl1200r |
All I can say is you've got me looking into them, but I have hard time believing that any electric heat source can save money over gas. I'm in a similar situation as you with the small house. I have a finished basement that has zone heating so that's never on, but other than that I only have 2 rooms that don't get used, so I don't know that the zone heating aspect of it would do much for me. | ||
| Union_man |
Here is a good answer. http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=200908 14125458AA6d0WP | ||
| Buellerandy |
What about ceramic heaters? Im in the same boat with a 876 sq ft house. | ||
| 86129squids |
Yeah- in a perfect world I'd have a modern, energy saving unit, but... Just got the radiant and the ceramic out of storage, gonna see what they can do tonite... | ||
| Hootowl |
A new gas furnace isn't all that much money if you've got forced air already for AC. A ventless gas fireplace might also be a good option. They're nearly 100% efficient. There's no chimney, they exhaust into the room. Sounds crazy, I know, but they burn so efficiently that there is a negligible amount of CO produced. I just bought one, and paid about $1500 for the zero clearance shell and the log/burner. Unlike vented and B vent gas fireplaces, ventless fireplaces are rated as heaters, not just decoration. Only restriction is that you can't use them in a bedroom or bathroom, since they get combustion air from the living space. | ||
| No_rice |
OK youn's- here in Mur-vil it's been getting colder, to the point that I've just turned on the heat for the first time this fall... WTF?! really? how cold has it gotten to there? i havent even turned on the heat here yet and its gotten below freezing during the over night a few times. but still doesnt drop the inside house temp enough to justify turning on the heat. most nights have been in the 40's outside though lately, and maybe 60-70 during the days. house has been staying high 50's-mid 60's so far most days. it was 45ish a couple mornings though lol. i did break down and let jenn turn on the heated blanket on low a night or 2 when it got that cool though. | ||
| Xl1200r |
Did some reading - bottom line, electricity isn't cheaper than gas to heat the entire house. If your place is easily "zonable", then you could turn down the heat for the house and use a space heater for just the room you're in. Pretty much every space heater is going to be damn-near 100% effecient, so aside from extra finishes or facy cabinets, you get the same amount of heat from a $30 unit at Walmart as you would for a $300 one that looks like antique wood furniture. I don't think it's suggested to heat ONLY with space heaters as they shouldn't be left unattended, and again, the electricty will cost more per joule of heat than natural gas (I've read it's roughly twice as expensive). For my place, I don't think it would work. It's be great to keep just the living room a little warmer, but it's very open to the kitchen/dining room/main hallway, so it'd end up heating most of the living space anyways. | ||
| 86129squids |
Yeah Rice- it's gotten down to the mid-upper 30's here lately, even colder up in Sevier and higher elevations. Feet on the floor this AM were coooold! Got an inside/outside thermometer, funny to watch it getting warmer out, with the sun, while the house stayed cool for a while yet... Me and my hunny are working on the last batch of tomatoes for HOMEMADE 'sketti/chili sauce, plus a big batch of pickled peppers... LOVE having a garden, but the last of the growing season is upon us...  | ||
| Coolice |
Unfortunately there is no "cheap" way to heat. The real answer is insulate, insulate, which reduces the amount of "heat" required to maintain comfortable temperatures. The higher the "R" factor the better. Google Zero energy homes, they are making it affordable, should have been done 30 years ago. My reference when discussing this with customers is the space station, I ask, "where is the gas or electric lines running to it?" That makes them think........ | ||
| 86129squids |
Good point, Cool- "Ground control to Major Tom..." | ||
| Cataract2 |
Wood burning stove FTMFW. | ||
| Johnnylunchbox |
I heat primarily with a wood stove, but when I need to add a little extra heat to a specific area I use a Delonghi oil-filled electric radiator. It is thermostatically controlled and has two on/off timers so you can set it to go on at certain times for however long you program it. I usually run it about a half hour before I get up because the bathroom gets real cold, because it's cantilevered over the front porch.  Another option is to get a few of those separately controlled stand alone electric baseboard heaters. You can use them individually to created a pseudo zoned heating scenario. | ||
| Blake |
Small well-focused radiant electric directed at you can keep you toasty without heating entire room. Very efficient. Hat, sweater, long johns work well too. Gas used to be a no-brainer over electric. Electric here is just $0.08/KWH, so it's not so clear. No conductive or convective heat loss in space, so they minimize radiative emissivity/absorptivity and thus need little in the way of insulation, relatively speaking. | ||
| Hootowl |
I blew half pound foam into an addition I built. I think I could cool that room with an ice cube on a plate. Amazing stuff. | ||
| Aschem |
Also helps to use standard light bulbs in the winter as they give off some heat. If your feet get cold, try one using one of those electric rubber heating mats. The mats use less electricity that a plug in heater. | ||
| Kenm123t |
HEAT PUMPS ! yes they work in Canada too Halliwell 2stage compression heat pumps. Heat pump exceed 4.5 Cop now geothermal is the best way Air cooled loose capacity the colder it gets and if you have a damp winter defrost cycles increase. If you have good ground water you can pump out and back into wells much like the geothermal with out all the closed loop piping. When we build in WV again I l have radiant floor heatimg and heat pump for air conditioning. Honda has a neat little generator heater for radiant floors and space heating.The heat pump will be a heat recovery Daikin VRVs systems. | ||
| Coolice |
Very nice Ken, but still use energy. If I ever get a chance to build/renovate again, I will go for zero energy. Lots of insulation. Solar for supplemental heat and photovoltaic for lighting. Only ventilation for CO2 and humidity. Maybe wood/pellet if extra heat needed. Tired of writing checks to utilities when there is a better way and be semi self sufficient. | ||
| Nillaice |
+1 on insulation. listen to the guys with 'ice' in thier usernames. ovbiously we R experts. LOL | ||
| Vtpeg |
Insulating and air sealing are your best bet. An energy auditor can identify weak spots, as well as measure real efficiency of your furnace. $200-500 for an audit is money well spent, it pays for itself quickly. Most of the federal incentive to upgrade is gone, but there are state and local incentives to ease the burden. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Iceyene Foam is the way to go. In So fla zero energy is too expensive unless you love super hi humidity Solar driven absorbition chillers are not cost effective as of yet. When I build my new place it will be all gas we own the wells | ||
| Jayvee |
Ain't staying warm what the dog and the honey are for? | ||
| Kenm123t |
We can fix you up with Cuddly Bassets In real cold weather its a 3 dog night | ||
| Aesquire |
Insulation is good advice. Experience tells us that the first 90% efficiency is well worth it, and easy. TO get 95% is harder and costs more, and 100% is usually not worth the effort, and compromises have to be made. You can make a house that heats with your body heat and a 100watt bulb... but it's not all that rational. Most of the advice above is good. However, if you rent, or can't afford big ticket remodel & new furnace, there are a few tricks.... I very much like the gain from simple indoor window film. Cheap, and well worth the effort. ( not that hard either... hint, clean the window frame where the tape goes first, and let dry ) Electric heat costs more than gas heat, as a rule. But if your old furnace ( I'm guessing forced air? ) is older than a 80% efficiency model, or in crappy shape, radiant electric might be cheaper.. but that's rare. I have a ventless gas heater. ( propane in my case, nozzle/orifice size is the only real difference for natural gas ) 30,000 btu's. It's great, radiant heat, with 2 1/2 problems. 1. uses oxygen and gives off CO2. In a tightly sealed house, it can kill you. 2. It gives off water vapor. Lots of water vapor. That can cause condensation, and wet from within is a problem in a house. 1/2. it's radiant heat, AND the combustion heat also rises. So you have to be aware of flammables. So I have mine in a basement, with checked venting, on concrete, with no flammables within 6 feet. Also a fan hanging from the ceiling circulates the rising hot Combustion air and keep the pipes & first floor overhead cool. ( when I first used it, without the fan I was startled to get hot water out of the cold tap in the kitchen. The pipes run 7 feet above the heater. ) I have condensation issues, on the basement walls above grade. I have to scrub the walls with bleach each year, to prevent mold. I keep the humidity under control with a dehumidifier, and only using it for a short time while I'm actually in the room. It's a compromise. It's also.... not quite legal I'm told. YMMV. | ||
| 86129squids |
Ken- LOL, the 3 dog night is prolly the kewlest idea... Thanks for the ideas, youn's- hopefully the $$$ saved will finance the bike/boat budget come springtime! Keep 'em coming. I've not yet heard if the quartz thing is worth looking into, but will now link to Union man's link. |
