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Scooter808484
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - 04:59 pm: | 
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As a guess 300 are contract maintenance workers, but like Boogiman said, they all get paid, and a whole heck of a lot better working at McDonald's.
Those 300 are the permanent ones, full time, bennies, the whole nine yards. At the last turnaround we had a couple thousand head out here working for more than a month. |
Kenm123t
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 27, 2011 - 08:09 pm: |
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my buddy is the safety contractor at the new Ill Valero refinery there were around 6000 guys working on the new and old plants The Valero has about 400 of thier own. |
Buellifer
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 12:11 am: |
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Quote>>> "OIL sold on the commodities market has a delivery date Gas you bought today was sold 3 months more or less ago. The lag is delivery and production."
This maybe true but the second the barrel goes up you do not see the station wait for the lag to catch up... NOW DO YOU!!! The freaking second the the barrel goes up, within a couple days gas prices rise as well, I do not see any lag. I got $100 to bet. Gas will not get below $3 a gallon on the $82 a barrel. So we should see gas under $3 going into December with the 3 months or less lag.
(Message edited by buellifer on September 28, 2011) |
Sifo
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 10:28 am: |
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I got $100 to bet.
I'll take your $100! 
This maybe true but the second the barrel goes up you do not see the station wait for the lag to catch up... NOW DO YOU!!!
Actually I see a pretty good correlation between the two prices. Certainly a particular station is free to play games with price, but it's not too hard to find those that don't. Gasbuddy.com consistently shows the same stations in my area with the best deals. There is a station near my house that plays games in a big way. They tend to drop prices every couple of days in relation to area prices, then all of a sudden it will jump 17-18 cents in one day. Then a couple of days later it drops 6-7 cents and keeps dropping every few days until the price looks great again, then it repeats that cycle. After getting caught by that a couple of times where the price was great when I went by yesterday, so I filled there today, only to suddenly realize I've been had, I stopped going there - EVER.
Look at the graph though. There's a good correlation, but notice something. As oil went up to it's peak, gas followed the trend, but by a smaller percentage. That's not an indication of someone taking advantage of oil price fluctuations.
Another thing that has to be considered, is that there are many costs in the gallon of gas you by besides the crude oil. One of these now is crop prices. I find it a bit insane how it's being done personally, but that's what happens when you power your car with food. And the price of food is affected by the price of oil. Oil futures go up, causing corn futures to go up. Oil goes down, but some of higher fuel prices are built into raising tomorrows crops. The point being that it's quite complicated.
So how do you ensure that you are getting fair pricing? Competition and informed consumers. Check prices and reward stations that work hard to give the best prices every day. Tools like gasbuddy.com can help with that and there are others. And yes, in a free market system, part of the responsibility to hold prices down is put on the consumer. A lazy consumer is nothing but a target for a sleazy business. Don't be a target. |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 10:41 am: |
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No one is disputing there is a correlation between the price per barrel of oil and a gallon of gasoline. The issue is the price of gas goes up almost immediately ( sometimes overnight) after oil goes up but I've never seen it fall at the same rate at which it went up.
Your chart is not detailed enough to show this movement so on that account it fails. Buellifier, collect your $100 and pass "go". |
Ferris_von_bueller
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 10:51 am: |
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.... well explain this to me....
http://loureedmetallica.com/
"They've achieved that resonantly on "Lulu", a set of extended songs inspired by German expressionist Frank Wedekind's early 20th century plays Earth Spirit and Pandora's Box (much admired by Freud)"
sounds to me like they are pandering to the homosexual crowd |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 11:09 am: |
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The gas station owner has to price the fuel he/she has based on what it will cost to purchase the next load of fuel. This is why you see an almost immediate price increase on gasoline as the price of crude goes up.
Gas stations don't make squat on gasoline. Their money comes from beer, soda, and cigarette sales. |
Fahren
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 11:12 am: |
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quote:Gas stations don't make squat on gasoline. Their money comes from beer, soda, and cigarette sales.
I am therefore their worst nightmare: gas and pee-stop only. |
Boogiman1981
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 11:54 am: |
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the margins on gas/diesel at the pump are small that's why a lot of gas stations were/are service stations and or c-stores. the c-stores on gas stations are developing into freaking walmarts but of course there is the convenience tax.... |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 11:56 am: |
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Hmm. I just realized that "don't make squat" and "make squat" might mean the same thing.
"And yet you learned nothing."
"I learned that flammable and inflammable mean the same thing"
---archer |
Sifo
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 12:12 pm: |
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For those that think gas stations are raking in tons of cash, why don't you open a gas station? I knew a guy that owned three of them at one point. He did OK, but certainly wasn't rich. And you get to deal with the quality of employees that are willing to work at a gas station. Many of them think nothing of just not showing up for work on any given day.
Seriously, or anyone who thinks that business model X just rakes in cash, you should take a good look at getting into that business. You too can be rich beyond your wildest dreams. The cash almost comes right out of the hose!  |
Scooter808484
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 01:56 pm: |
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Like I said, Big Oil doesn't make much money in refining, they make it by pumping it out of the ground.
You can argue that no one would buy a barrel of crude without it being refined (I have) but that's not how the accounting is done.
Refineries don't make much on gasoline, (in fact right now we purposely make as little as we possibly can since jet and diesel are more valuable), I'm sure gas station owners make even less.
Basically, it's like everything else. If you don't like the price don't buy it. If enough people do that the price will come down. |
Boogiman1981
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 02:06 pm: |
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that's the theory. there are two flaws. 1 we can't afford to not drive. 2 supply is so tightly controlled there would not be a huge surplus overnight to depress the prices. |
Hootowl
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 02:15 pm: |
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But...there IS a surplus. There is an oil glut. There are no orders going unfilled. Everyone who wants to buy oil can.
High prices are due to the prospect of oil exporting countries losing their ability to produce due to internal or regional conflict.
Uncertainty spooks investors, and it makes commodity traders buy buy buy and at ever higher prices.
Diesel used to be cheaper than gas because there was more of it. Refiners have found ways to get more naptha out of a barrel of crude, and that results in less diesel/jet fuel being produced vs. gasoline, whereas it used to be the other way around. |
Boogiman1981
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 04:18 pm: |
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problem again not with your logic but rather with how the system is being abused. i am not a trader nor do i work in finances: it is my understanding that the spec market was created to 'normalize' prices. what i see is these guys on wall st trading products for what would appear to be the sake of trading and thus earning profit of the trade. i have problem with people or businesses making $ that's what they do i get that. at what point is it to much? i don't believe that the idea of 'what the market will bear' applies to fuel as it is a necessity. i am sure that there are many places that people don't own cars ny chicago etc. however in jacksonville, fl you cannot effectively live without powered transportation. not only that because of the high fuel prices the cost of every damn thing else is going up like crazy too. except houses.... and wages....
http://www.thepeoplehistory.com/pricebasket.html |
Just_ziptab
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 06:52 pm: |
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Every damned station goes up or down the same day around here.Who's talking to who in the morning? It's been going down a penny a day for a week now.....why the tease of a penny? This would not happen if they had to open the pump panels and physically change the price........instead of a few key strokes at corporate. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 06:58 pm: |
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quote:why the tease of a penny?
Because they are getting it for a penny less, and the guy across the street lowered his a penny. How much you want to bet that both stations are getting gas from the same truck?
quote:This would not happen if they had to open the pump panels and physically change the price
Actually it would. There are still some places with old fashioned pumps and do this.
quote:instead of a few key strokes at corporate.
If by corporate you mean the individually programmed prices by the regular guy who owns the gas station, then yes. |
Bads1
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 07:09 pm: |
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Because they are getting it for a penny less, and the guy across the street lowered his a penny. How much you want to bet that both stations are getting gas from the same truck?
Actually no truck goes to another stop.The gas is ordered and dumped. It does not go on to another station. Stations play games with one another all the time. Thing is the guy across the street may lower his gas. But if the other station just bought gas and bought cheaper??? Well I guess you can see where this is going. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 07:15 pm: |
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quote:Actually no truck goes to another stop.The gas is ordered and dumped. It does not go on to another station.
Yea because I've only seen it happen... |
Sifo
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 07:15 pm: |
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They may not get it from the same physical truck, but you can be pretty sure both trucks came from the same place. |
Bads1
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 07:25 pm: |
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Really Froggy??? Not in Wisconsin not in Ill. A truck load is ordered by gallons.That truck goes to a station and drops it load of fuel. If the station ordered say 10,000 gallons.... thats what the truck is filled to. No mistakes then. Not only that. The additives are different per say from BP to say a Mobil. My family owns a BP and a Mobil. |
Fahren
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 07:36 pm: |
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So, somebody tell me whassup with the history of 9/10 of a cent on every gas price. When and why did that become a normal way to sell goods? |
Froggy
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 07:37 pm: |
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Yep. They aren't going to send a truck all the way to my dads shop with just the few thousand gallons he ordered. Due to town restrictions he has small tanks, the truck empties one or two compartments depending on if we need premium that day, then heads on down the road and stops at Getty. They do this roughly every 3 days. |
Froggy
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 07:40 pm: |
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Fahren, it is a relic from back in the days when the penny had more buying power. Here is some good info:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview?id=56 8724 |
Scooter808484
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 08:43 pm: |
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i don't believe that the idea of 'what the market will bear' applies to fuel as it is a necessity. i am sure that there are many places that people don't own cars ny chicago etc. however in jacksonville, fl you cannot effectively live without powered transportation.
Now that is socialist sounding stuff for here on the BadWeb Quick Board. How would "what the market will bear" not apply? Why should Exxon or BP care about where you live? If you don't like the price don't buy it. Or move. Or get you state to lower it's tax. Anything other than that would require, oh the horror, GOV'T REGULATION. |
Just_ziptab
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 28, 2011 - 10:55 pm: |
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9/10th gas price was banned in Iowa for a very short period of time. I believe it was when gas went over a buck a gallon.
All the local gas (here) comes from Williams Brothers Pipeline Terminal. The additives and ethanol is blended in at the terminal , as ordered by each station. I would bet they service a pretty wide area of quite a few counties. I've toured the place,pretty neat.
The local Casey pump price is controlled off premise. Employees only change the price board when they get the call that gas price is changing at a specific time.
I worked at a station shorty after high school for two years and gas prices changed only a few times a year....not a few times a week! We read the pumps at every closing and measured the tanks when the numbers said we were getting low. The tankers left empty and we were full.
A 1,000 gallon day was a BIG day(full service,I washed a lot of windshields) and we had a margin of 9 cents a gallon back then.....that would equal neart two weeks wages for me in one day of gas sales margin. |
Aesquire
| | Posted on Thursday, September 29, 2011 - 07:48 am: |
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Things to consider.
The booze can't be piped, it's trucked. And, as stated, blended locally.
On the way to work, the boss ( owner/franchisee/corp manager ) drives by the other gas stations. Price is adjusted based on THAT. ( I know, that's how my boss at the 7-11 did it. ) Or orders from higher, but only at corp stores.
Gas sold at the pumps pays for the NEXT tank load.
The oil companies don't pay me a dime. Rich bastards. Wish I'd done that as a career. |
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